HU on the way. Tuning help needed!

kawizx9r

Stupid spam :mad:

Anyway, had some minor technical difficulties with my HU but it's working fine now.

SR6500's come in tomorrow :D:D

arun1963

The vifa tweets like the sr tweets are RR's. The catch with these tweets is that they have excellent high end excursion, very smooth and lifelike presentation, but a very narrow dispersion. Hence these need to be on axis.

As a rough guide, the far tweet needs to be aimed at your right ear while near tweet can be angled from your right shoulder to your left. Aiming the near tweet to you left shoulder will require L/R eq control and it will give you a really wide stage (reduces IAC). Without L/R eq this will pull your centre stage in front of you but do it just to experience the stage width. Based on your cars interiors, your driver placement, dsp levels, find the tweet angle thst gives you the best width while keeping other things in place.

kawizx9r

SR's are here!

So uh I'll add some pictures but this installation will take awhile. Will have to take the car apart a bit to hide away the crossovers.

kawizx9r

FML, woofers won't fit.

Totally forgot about my Alpine's needing to use a supplied bracket to fit in the oversized opening. I tried using the bracket for the SR's but the basket sticks out too much for it to fit.

Will put this install off for awhile I guess and the speakers will sit boxed up in the closet.

kawizx9r

When they got here -

kawizx9r

On left, Polk SR6500. On the right, Alpine Type S with supplied bracket.

kawizx9r

DSkip wrote: »

The Sr's will be an unbelievable upgrade over those Alpines. I ran the R's for two weeks because I was on a budget at the time, and I couldn't stand them near the end of the second week.

You will wonder how you ever enjoyed listening to the Alpines after hearing those SR's.

Yeah that's why I was all anxious to get these installed and now I can't :mad:

The components look to be in great condition with the exception of some minor rust on the basket...might just clean them up.

kawizx9r

Did anyone have this same problem? If so, where'd you get your plate/bracket?

Might just have to give Polk a call and see if they have anything available.

kawizx9r

DSkip wrote: »

Made my own. I'd go that route as its more fun and get a bigger sense of accomplishment out of it. Cheaper too if you already have access to the necessary tools.

Did you go fiberglass? What'd you use?

Btw, I've got those tweeter mounts and don't think I'll be needing them. Can't ship anything out anytime soon but let me know if you're still interested.

kawizx9r

DSkip wrote: »

MDF

Yeah, very interested in them. If/when the time comes, give me a heads up on what you want for them and how much to ship.

Ha why didn't that come to mind?

Yeah I've got tools and such for making them out of MDF, just hate that they're sold in 4'x8' pieces....I'll check out Lowe's and Home Depot to see if I can get smaller portions.

I had some extra 3/4" thick MDF in Illinois from when I made my sub too, oh well it's just like 15 bucks a board anyway.

As for the tweeter mounts, I'll send ya some pictures later to show ya all the ones I've got. Shipping will be chump change, it's just I've got other things going on right now and had 2 hours panned out for installing these speakers but that didn't happen.

kawizx9r

Well, I'm having problems AGAIN with my headunit.

I read up on a couple of reviews and apparently some of the software on their units is a bit flaky. I'm thinking I might look into a different Kenwood model, preferably one with upgradeable firmware but if not I might just do an even swap for the same model. Few people on Amazon claim it took them 2-3 tries til they got one that worked fine, would hate to have to go through that trouble myself though.

Will keep you guys updated.

kawizx9r

New Excelon X794 is on the way.

Been having issues with the HU as of the past 2-3 days regarding it not reading anything connected to the USB port as well as not playing any disc at all. Resetting it fixed the issues temporarily but caused me to lose all of my DTA/eq settings and such. I saved all my settings on one of the presets, and manually reset it (to test the memory function) and even though the memory isn't supposed to be erased when the HU is reset (as manual states) the memory is still lost and irrecoverable.

The unit isn't firmware upgradeable so a new one is on it's way. Hopefully I don't have the same issue. Gotta love Crutchfield's CS, especially on their Signature products :D:D

kawizx9r

While the new HU replacement is on the way, I put some work in today creating some speaker brackets for my SR6500 woofers.

Finished one today, will finish the other tomorrow. After which I'll run another wire from the door panel to the vehicle (for the tweeter) because I'm thinking about mounting the crossovers underneath the driver+passenger seats.

Anxious to get everything installed and for the new HU to arrive but I've got to take it one step at a time, don't want to half-**** anything

kawizx9r

Got the right side Vifa tweeter and SR woofer installed. Crossover sits underneath the seat.

God damn! (can I say that here?)

Now I know what you guys meant about midbass! I kept using the balance going from right to left and back to right and the combination sounds much better than the Alpine components. They're not getting a whole lot of power, but they still sound better and much more natural. Can't wait until I get the left one installed and use a bigger amp to power them!

Still waiting on the headunit to come in.

Sherardp

If the next Kenwood fails you check out the Alpine 9887. A very good HU with tons of tweaks. I installed one in the Escalade and it is awesome. Imprint works very well also.

kawizx9r

Sherardp wrote: »

If the next Kenwood fails you check out the Alpine 9887. A very good HU with tons of tweaks. I installed one in the Escalade and it is awesome. Imprint works very well also.

Alpine's and Kenwood' Excelon series were the top 2 on my list, but I went with the Excelon model because they're fairly new and I really liked the way the interface was laid out.

The main reason for NOT going with Alpine is because the unit's I had checked out required additional hardware to utilize the Imprint system which added an easy $250 or so.

Edit: Btw, I just checked out the 9887 but it's discontinued at Crutchfield , hopefully this HU works out but if not we'll see what I order next. I had called Kenwood about my issue as well and it was unheard of so hopefully the problem stays with this one unit so I can replace it with the one that's on its way.

Also looking at the other HU's offered by Alpine, none of them come with TA (even at $400+) :eek:

kawizx9r

Giving it some time, the Kenwood is a great performer and there are absolutely no issues to speak of.

Now, a question.

I've researched TA a bit and have been directed to a few forums and manuals (to include my own manual for my HU).

After some tweaking, I established some good imaging. The soundstage is up to ear level on my dash, and the subwoofer sounds like it's immediately behind me as opposed to coming from the trunk. There's still alot to do and in time it should only get better after countless of hours tweaking but I think I may be going a wrong way about it?

Some suggest that I use TA to adjust from the driver's seat. In that case the furthest speaker (right obviously in the USA) is at 0 on the TA setting. The delay is then set on the left channel so both channels come at me at relatively the same time. I achieved some great imaging right in front of me behind the steering wheel but the soundstage wasn't as wide as I hoped. I know with some more tuning I could achieve that.

Well after that's set, sitting in the passenger seat it sounds horrible. Since there's no right channel delay, it seems that's where all the sound is coming from and there's no imaging at all, not to mention the delays coming in from the left side. I guess maybe I'm just being too considerate for my front seat passenger? I have someone with me over half the time I'm driving and I drive a good 2-3hours each day.

Now the way I had originally adjusted TA is by achieving imaging throughout the entire front dash. If I sat in the driver's seat, I was slightly offset to the left of the center image. Same goes for the passenger side with me finding myself sitting offset right. Soundstage remained the same which was close up to ear level and slightly wider than the speakers position. It's a bit hard though finding differences when adjusting the left+right TA using the center of the vehicle as my reference point (as suggested by manual). I measured from the center of the speaker to my reference point and used those differences to apply to my TA but for **** and giggles I added/took away from those adjustments to hear how it'd sound.

Which way should I go about utilizing my TA? Or is this simply personal preference?

Btw, I'm loving the detail and accuracy these SR's+vifa tweeters offer.

Can't wait to bi-amp my setup! :cool:

-Freddy

MacLeod

If you're wanting the best imaging from BOTH seats, you're not gonna be able to use TA for left and right. You can still use it to pull the sub forward and to pull the stage up but not centered. The only way to get a centered image from both seats is by moving the speakers so that the pathlength difference is less than 10" or so.

My golden rule is that when my passengers start helping me pay for my gear, thats when I'll start worrying about their soundstage. Besides 95% of people would never notice the center image is offset.

kawizx9r

True, guess I was being too considerate of my passenger

Ok so back to the way I was doing it. It's rather fun really! I keep looking for reasons to get in the car an go anywhere haha

kawizx9r

Mac, I did want to add that it wasn't for 'best imaging' in both seats but that there was still some sort of imaging where you can pick things out throughout a soundstage.

The Excelon manual wanted me to use the center of the vehicle as a reference point and I achieved this, and even stated that the passenger will be slightly offset right and the driver slightly offset left.

I'll just go back to adjusting it for myself anyway

arun1963

Does your hu allow two custom settings? If so you can set one each seat. the only other thing would be the ability to change the angles on the tweets a bit, specially the ring radiators.

Two seat sound is a forum myth. Quite sure it doesn't exist. The difference between a decent 1 seat set up and the best two seater will be night and day. So, if you have a passenger who you want to impress, then your ears may need to take a back seat.

If you really want to get into this hobby, get your ears on a reference sound, something you're shooting for. Even the most basic 2ch home setup will give you a decent idea. Listen with your eyes closed. You hear the music and see the imaging, better that way. Use a cd where you are familiar with the music and go back and forth between the car and the home setup.

If you're hearing the sub right behind you, then you're either cutting the sub much higher than you should, shallow slopes, or the TA needs tweaking.

kawizx9r

arun1963 wrote: »

Does your hu allow two custom settings? If so you can set one each seat. the only other thing would be the ability to change the angles on the tweets a bit, specially the ring radiators.

That's a negative on the two custom settings ghost rider

I know I'll have to play with the angle that my tweeters are facing, I just don't want to undergo redoing the sail panels completely over again.

arun1963 wrote: »

Two seat sound is a forum myth. Quite sure it doesn't exist. The difference between a decent 1 seat set up and the best two seater will be night and day. So, if you have a passenger who you want to impress, then your ears may need to take a back seat.

I figured, either tweak it for myself or give up alot just to make it sound a bit better for my passenger.

arun1963 wrote: »

If you really want to get into this hobby, get your ears on a reference sound, something you're shooting for. Even the most basic 2ch home setup will give you a decent idea. Listen with your eyes closed. You hear the music and see the imaging, better that way. Use a cd where you are familiar with the music and go back and forth between the car and the home setup.

If you're hearing the sub right behind you, then you're either cutting the sub much higher than you should, shallow slopes, or the TA needs tweaking.

I've had several different 2-channel setups, my favorite being with Magnepan speakers. The imaging was so unreal, and the depth went far deep making me believe my living room was twice as big as it really was.

The imaging/soundstaging for a good handful of CD's is still familiar to me so I use that music to better tune my stereo because I've got a good idea of how it should sound (to me that is).

Unfortunately though I've completely dismantled my home stereo and out here NO ONE's got a decent rig. I'm SOL on that part but I've got a rough idea of what to look for.

Everyone out here is all about running 3 12"s or 15"s in suburbans, or cars without rear seating to run multiple subs. It sounds like crap really, and I don't know anyone around here with a decent home/car setup.

arun1963

kawizx9r wrote: »

I know I'll have to play with the angle that my tweeters are facing, I just don't want to undergo redoing the sail panels completely over again..

Which is why I have mine on the dash, in pods and stuck on double sided tape...looks really ghetto , but the flexibility in playing with the angles makes for a great tuning feature.

kawizx9r wrote: »

I've had several different 2-channel setups, my favorite being with Magnepan speakers. The imaging was so unreal, and the depth went far deep making me believe my living room was twice as big as it really was.

The imaging/soundstaging for a good handful of CD's is still familiar to me so I use that music to better tune my stereo because I've got a good idea of how it should sound (to me that is).

The point I was trying to make is, that tuning is not something that you can get done in a few hours, weeks or months. It literally takes years. During this time its important to understand how each tuning tool works (TA, eq, xover points, slopes, gains, tweet angles etc etc), what it does and most importantly how making a change at one point, affects a whole range etc. Having access to a quality reference sound helps in this stage. It helps in identifying the gaps in the sound.

The way you described the stage / imaging: stage starting 2/3 the way up on your windshield, vocalist at centre stage near your rear view mirror, equal spread of L/R stage etc is correct but you're not going to truly get here without eg L/R seperation on your eq. The thing is, your ears and mind can tell you the sound is awesome, chances are if you took a break and came back to listen after a while, you may realise that the ears were fooling you. I can't count high enough to tell you how many times this happened to me......still does from time to time.

With the level of dsp you have you should be able to dial in pretty nice sound. Do you have any sq competitions near your place? If so it may help to listen to some of top competitors vehicles.

kawizx9r

arun1963 wrote: »

Do you have any sq competitions near your place? If so it may help to listen to some of top competitors vehicles.

I live 40mins away from the nearest major city, I should take a trip out there when there's such a competition

MacLeod

Check the MECA event schedule. They started having California shows out there a lot this year and from what I hear, they had a pretty good turn out. Season is over now and finals is this weekend so there wont be any shows til next year but it is DEFINITELY worth going to one and getting some seat time in some real competitive cars.

http://mecacaraudio.com/

kawizx9r

Well, I was cruising along listening to tunes and decided to check out some of the local audio shops like I do from time to time to see if they've got anything new.

Anyway, I got a Kenwood Excelon amp for only $200 bucks brand new in box. They sell brand new online for 270 (only 1 vendor, and I think it's sketchy) and everywhere else for at least $400+ so I think I lucked out.

Well this thing has time alignment settings as well, 5-band parametric equalizer and more as well as active X-O

I bought it mainly to bi-amp my SR's but with the extra DSP/settings I might as well take advantage of all of it.

Pics to come like always What do you guys think? Oh and here's the link - http://www.kenwoodusa.com/KAC-X4R

kawizx9r

Here are some pics!

Boxed up, next to the HU box



Out of the box



Here's a view of the ins/outputs



Here's a closeup showing the display, settings, etc. This should be fun!

kawizx9r

Well not only did I buy an amp, I went out and got my intake ordered. Should arrive tomorrow!

Here's a factory pic of it, wasn't cheap either! :eek:

kawizx9r

DSkip wrote: »

Must be nice to have the extra money...

Looks like your car is getting pampered.

Disability compensation

Plus my car deserves it! I keep telling myself I want this/that for it so decided I'd treat myself a bit

Amp is installed and the SR's are currently bi-amped! It was a **** though because I had to completely disconnect my smaller Kenwood amp and JL Audio amp and remove several wires because the runs weren't long enough. Put some 2ga. cable for the 4-channel amp and ran existing 4ga. for the stereo amp. Everythings on default, but coming home right now I disabled the sub via HU and the SR's sounded NICE! I completely eliminated the HPF just to try them out and they sound pretty damn good. Will need to mess with the X-O alot now, and will have to try out the 5-band parametric equalizer the amp has built in. Contemplating whether or not I should use the built-in active X-O.

As for the intake, I didn't want to skimp out. Bought the best one I could get for my GT

Gotta love the heat shielding around the filer.

eloplayspolo

So i was going to post here and ask about head unit recommendations, but i was looking at the one you suggested as well as the higher end models in the same series, and i just wanted to get your take on the unit so far.