My how times have changed...

RuSsMaN

The Mrs. and I were wandering CompUSA last night, I needed a new mouse for the office.

Anyway, I thought for grins, I'd peruse the software section, see what the new games were, and what the asking price was. There was a little boy, probably not 5-6 years old, with his father, and he picked up some racing game.

Anyway, as we were about to leave the isle, the kid BURSTS into tears. Not because his dad wouldn't buy him the game, I think the dad was ready to throw down the cash.

With a face full of tears, after reading the system requirements on the side of the box, he looks up at his father and says "We don't have Windows XP" and slammed the game back on the shelf, and continued to ball as if his puppy just died.

I felt for the lad, but could hardly contain my laughter at the same time.

Cheers,
Russ

Ron-P

I walked into office yesterday morning to find a new DELL on my desk. Pentium 4, flat screen, soft touch key board and who knows what else on the inside, but this thing flys. I have a 4 year old computer at home that can hardly play the basic of basic Disney games. I dare not even touch a game on the B&M shelf today. My home PC would burn-up.

I need a new home PC. Checking Dells site, $899 for a new package like the one I have here in the office. $100 rebate and a free DVD player upgrade. Not too bad. But it's not something I'd buy anytime soon.

Technology is moving way too fast. Heck, the FP I bought last week is probably already being replaced with a new, better and cheaper model.


Peace Out~:D

burdette

Foxworthy said.. "remember what you got for your 5th birthday? That paddle with the red ball tied on to it... one two.. one two three.. one two.. one two .. one two three.....

I watch my **3** year old handle a mouse, open programs, close them down...

I made the mistake of showing him "Tie Fighter" and "X-Wing" because he likes Star Wars. He wants to play them SO much, but they just aren't friendly (forget kid friendly, these things aren't friendly at ALL).

Curious... does anyone know of a kid's PC game that uses a joystick??? Both my kids would like to use our joystick but we have no, and know of no, kids' games that use one.

GuitarheadCA

Okay, I have something I think shows the evolution of computer nicely. This appeared two days ago, so the timing is right for this post.

www.apple.com

Check out the new G5. I myself am what I would call a "Reverse Switcher"- I switched from apple to PC because my apple wouldn't work, so I won't be buying it- I have that Pentium 4 dell with a flat panel display that Ron was talking about- and It has served me faithfully. My next computer I will definately build myself.

Oh, and I can't tell you how many hours I put into X-Wing. Great game.

VR3

Custom Computers are the only way to roll.

Dell - ($2,000 computer) - 1,000 in the computer, 500 in da name, and 500 in da software.

Custom Computer, 2,000 bucks - all in da computer. Way better computers, way better parts, lots more reliability. Overall better computer. Factory computers are crap. Sorry, no computer u buy in the store will be as good as one you build or get built for you. IMO all da way. I have a custom computer and has ran flawlessly for almost 3 years now. No problems except some minor parts wearing out. Or outdated parts. My Mom owns a Dell, it has crashed more than the crash dummies. My point, instead of buying 900 dollar dell. Buy a 900 dollar custom computer. You pick the parts, and you get what you pay for. When you buy a factory computer you have no clue what they put in them, you dont know if they stripped down the video card or anything. Thank ya thank ya, Ill be here all night.

faster100

Originally posted by Ron-P

I need a new home PC.

Faster responds, Boy do i have a deal for you!!

e-mail me, talk to me, i have the rig for you... month old basically

Ron, your e-mails are off,

Ron-P

Faster, give it a shot. I fixed the problem. If not peregrinefalcon@earthlink.net


Peace Out~:D

GuitarheadCA

Sid,

It's not that clear cut- self built computers are not for everyone.

1. If you actually buy the software at retial, it's not that much cheaper (XP alone is $200) - unless your doing something illegal- you can't factor it out of the equation like you did.
2. Pre-fab computers can roll with the best of them (my 2.5 gig Dell has yet to Hiccup- as I said, it has served me FLAWLESSLY- it is as reliable and fast as most custom PC's I have ever seen) - and did you go to the apple site like I suggested? No PC at this moment pre-fab or not can stand up to the G5. Period. And that is definately pre-fab.
3. It does require some technical knowlege - the vast majority of housholds have a computer these days- you think they could all build them themseleves? Not likely.

That said, I will build my next computer, but mainly for the reason I can hand-pick my parts and customize it to my taste and needs and save a little money on the way. Not because it's the "only way to go."

TroyD

****, I still got PONG at home........

BDT

Demiurge

It's not that clear cut- self built computers are not for everyone

You're right about that, but Custom PC's, if built by the right person, are leaps and bounds beyond Pre-Fabs.

The only big thing that you need to worry about on custom PC's is the stability factor. They aren't as stable as Pre-Fabs, but they are also MUCH easier to fix.

So I guess if you have access to someone who knows something about computers or you know yourself....Custom is the way to go. It's not even that hard. I've built all my family's PC's lately and haven't had a problem. They are all custom tailored to the user.

1. If you actually buy the software at retial, it's not that much cheaper (XP alone is $200) - unless your doing something illegal- you can't factor it out of the equation like you did.

Thats true to an extent, but there are deals ALL over the internet on software because all that matters is that you have the little hologram barcode if you're that obsessed with having a legit comp. I've bought ONE copy of XP Pro on ebay and have installed it on all my custom builts for the family.

2. Pre-fab computers can roll with the best of them (my 2.5 gig Dell has yet to Hiccup- as I said, it has served me FLAWLESSLY- it is as reliable and fast as most custom PC's I have ever seen) - and did you go to the apple site like I suggested? No PC at this moment pre-fab or not can stand up to the G5. Period. And that is definately pre-fab.

Thats also completely untrue.

I guess if you want to spend $2,700 on an Alienware gaming computer you could start talking about it having the same performance competition as my computer, but Alienware can't touch the significantly lower price for my computer.....neither can Apple or any other major manucfacturer.

The Apple G5 is indeed a nice new chip. Twice the processing speed on the top PC chip.....

So what?

One thing you need to understand is that the PC chip manufacturers like Intel & AMD all have chips that can compete with the G5. The technology is lightyears ahead of whats in stores. These companies are in business to make money...so naturally they play off of eachother and slowly release their technology to the public.

For example:

If I invent Chip A

sell it

do R&D on a more improved product and come up with something 10 times as good as Chip A...why wouldn't I release something 5 times as good as Chip A?

Chip A

Chip B - 5x Better

Chip C - 10x Better

I make more money selling all 3 rather than just 2.

You can question that all you want, but thats the reality of the business and all of them know it. Intel, AMD, Apple....they all work together in that respect.

3. It does require some technical knowlege - the vast majority of housholds have a computer these days- you think they could all build them themseleves? Not likely.

Most people are just too lazy to learn. Some have the money to burn. Some don't have the time...ect....It was no knock on the Pre-Fabs out there, but they ARE NOT as good as a custom PC. Thats just a fact. Reasoning and technical knowledge are a whole other subject.

That said, I will build my next computer, but mainly for the reason I can hand-pick my parts and customize it to my taste and needs and save a little money on the way. Not because it's the "only way to go."

Thats great...I guess you just proved a lot of what the other guy said. You will save an assload of money if you are building a perfomance PC...provided to shop correctly. You will also be getting QUALITY parts. Thats something that people tend to look over.

People see:

2.4 GHz - But they don't always know the chipset details.

80GB Hard drive - But they don't know it's a cheap-o and possible low speed.

They have no idea they have a **** MOBO

They have no idea they have MINIMUM Ram, and CHEAP Ram.

...I could go on and on.

Pre-Fabs are definately a rip off. If you buy one, fine, I'm sure it will work ok...But it doesn't take much to do a custom build and you know EXACTLY what you're getting.

phuz

Guitarhead, were you using OSX on your Mac? I had an old mac that ran system7 and OS8 back in the day, and I made the reverse switch back then and haven't looked back. Untill now....

OSX is everything an OS should be. Ease of use like Apple and microsoft, with the power and stability of Unix. I'd get one of the new G5s if I could.

I need a new puter too, my PIII 500 is pretty much bleedin to death now. heh

MX: I dunno what Dell stuff you've been looking at, but you can get a nice new Dell PC fully loaded with a 17" monitor, DVD burner, etc. for about $1000. With awesome support and a warranty.

Tell me where you can build something like that for $1000?

VR3

www.compuwizzard.com, He is local - gives killer deals, and discounts, and is cheap.

Steve@3dai

Support and warranty is why pre-fabs are the way to go.

Sure, I'm FULLY capable of building my own custom PC, know exactly what chipset to get and everything.

But really, for what I use my machine for, pre-fab Dell or something is good.

Bah, I'm going to get a Powerbook G4 or a G5 anyway

Ceruleance

I've built custom PC's. it costs too much to get the parts new. If you wanna Ebay a bunch of stuff and throw it together, you might be in business. The software is the real killer though, those OS's are just so damned expensive and the only way to get a deal is to go through a big name pre-fab.

You guys may be right that spending 2k on a custom PC will yield better results than prefab, im not arguing that, but who out there is buying 2k pc's and needs advice?

spending $700 on a PC is where prefabs kick the pants out of customs. And dont tell me you cant get a decent computer for that, I have a dell, P4, 2.0ghz, 640 mb DDR SDRAM (no thats not an extra zero, 512 + 128), 64mb graphics, CD burner, and I got it for under 700 (including OS and software bundles), and that was a year ago. One of the tricks is, if they offer a memory upgrade or a rebate, go for the rebate everytime and buy aftermarket memory. And dont whine about people that can't install memory, with the advent of screwless cases, I am confident I could install memory with my ****, if I were excited enough.

GuitarheadCA

Okay, looks like both sides of the Pre-fab vs. Custom have surfaced, so I don't really need to elaborate on my earlier post.

Demiuge,
You were right about there being chips on the market that can compete with the G5, I guess I was basing my opinion on having just watched the apple video;) And what is in stores. However I was reacting to an exagerated inconclusive post ragging on pre-fabs, and guess I went a little too far the other way.

Phuz,
Okay, I was rasied on a mac, I remember our early LC III, man that thing was sweet - we were all gaga over it and it never crashed. Funny that's the only mac we havn't had problems with. Next came the PowerMac 7200, that thing was nothing special, and then finally, the G4 tower. It came native w/ 9.1 on it. It would freeze up all the time- probably once a week. Okay, so let's put OS X on it, and here comes 10.0. Well that was weak, now we don't have the drivers we need, we're running most the stuff in classic, and it still crashes. Okay, so we BUY the 10.1 upgrade CD. Well then I wanted to use imovie 3. So in order to use that, we had to go from 10.1 to 10.1.1 to 10.1.3 to 10.1.5. These were not smooth upgrades, we had to download a bunch of crap from apple site along with them to get them to install. So now we're at 10.1.5, and it freezes every other time we try to switch the startup disc to and from 9. Okay, So we'll BUY Jaguar, but what's this? Oh, Panther is out now, so maybe we'll just BUY that too. Yeeesh.

Window XP has this great feature call "Automatic update" Apple needs to jump on the bandwagon. I get my upgrades easily, and I DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM. I will never take it for granted again. Then they'res the compatibility issue for macs, for college kids on the gaming scene (me) There is simply nothing supported on mac OSX.

I'm done ranting on macs now, I can't believe I was defending them on my last post:mad:

Ron-P

Support and warranty is why pre-fabs are the way to go.

Sure, I'm FULLY capable of building my own custom PC, know exactly what chipset to get and everything.

But really, for what I use my machine for, pre-fab Dell or something is good.

spending $700 on a PC is where prefabs kick the pants out of customs.

Exactly why I will buy a pre-fab. I have built two of my own, many years ago. Something I have zero interest in ever doing again. No fun in it anymore. Just buy the package, set it up and go.


Peace Out~:D

faster100

Originally posted by Ron-P
Exactly why I will buy a pre-fab. I have built two of my own, many years ago. Something I have zero interest in ever doing again. No fun in it anymore. Just buy the package, set it up and go.


Peace Out~:D

So were you interested in a computer? or gonna buy pre-fab from the local store?? I sent you an e-mail anyways...

faster100

Let me say this...... Thier is no clean cut answer to custom or pre-made pc's.. i have been building computers for about 5-6 years now for everyone in my family, myself and some side stuff.. I'm not I T gueness, But i can build a good pc on the cheap if you need be, I have a place i buy parts at new and save alot of money.. I have 3 puters now and one on the way, to be done.. all networked in my house for me, my daughter and wife.. If you don't have a clue about computers, get a new one from the store,ie:gateway,dell or compaq.. if you want to be able to upgrade the processor, and video card and sound get a custom computer.. see what stores seem to fail to tell you when they say the puter is upgradable, is this::: memory is always upgradable if their is more slots avalable, cd's floppies,hard drives all can be changed.. OK what usually can't be upgraded or not far from what's in it or a few years down the road is the Processor, video, sound, all the real important things to make it faster.. I just upgraded my motherboard and it now will take up to a AMD xp 2600 i think, my old board topped out at like 1.4, If you want a cheap puter that works fast get custom,, because yes you can get a e-machine for 350.00-450.00 with a bunch of rebates but they simply stink, no upgrading, and slow.. My neighbor has one that was slow from out of the box.. what people also don't realize is speed is judged not only by memory and processor but by the motherboard and chipset.. I have a puter that is the same as my father in-laws basically (i built it) but he opted for the cheap board and so thus mine runs faster even though the specs are close to mine.. hard drive speed also a factor.. don't build a new speedey computer and put that pentium 166's hard drive in it, its old, worn out and will slow it down..

Ok guys now talk to me, I have a AMD duron 1200 for sale complete, most parts brand new month old, the rest used but recently purchased.. No 486 parts in it LOL.. I am waiting to see what ROn says..

faster100

ATC, i just upgraded to the MSI N-force2 board.. pretty cool new chipset and onboard graphics.. I may upgrade to a Nvidia such and such video card that will work on the new 8x agp later on, This will ultilize 128 megs of ddr system ram as it is,

SPEAKER7

Well, the only new computer related purchase that I have made in the past 3yrs are some shares of ATI.....I'm waiting to see how their earnings will shape up tomorrow.....the ticker symbol is ATYT on the Nasdaq exchange. I hope it does well because it could mean some much needed $ for my audio upgrades.


dc.:)

Ceruleance

I own Nvidia stock :P

Steve@3dai

Originally posted by ATCVenom
I really enjoy the Nforce mobo. The built-in *realtek?* sound card is not too bad either... Good enough to where I will be in no rush to make a small upgrade to the Audigy 2.

Realtek is the AC'97 codec, all the processing is done on the MCP on the NVidia southbridge. Realtek just does the analog/SPDIF output.

Unfortunately, Realtek is the crappiest AC'97 codec out there. ADI and SigmaTel make noticably better codecs. A little bird told me that the Realtek part will be replaced by one of the two other companies, but I'm not at liberty to say.

Oh, and if you can, try the Dolby Digital out the SPDIF! Converts all your Windows and games to Dolby Digital, it's quite cool!

dorokusai

I also built my own after a horrible experience with the dog I call HP Athlon....long story short, many many problems, including support when the future started arriving soon after purchase. And this was a store bought Best Buy computer. Just got real tired of having HP create their own proprietary drivers and BIOS upgrades, and post them when they felt like it. Often with problem in the program itself. I will not buy a pre-fab again, simply based on my single experience, I just don't care that much about it.

Built my own, never built one before, off a fellow co-workers suggestion. It was a little scary, but I liked the process, and made the computer feel more like mine. Here are my stats, and the price I paid:

WinXP
2.4Ghz Pentium IV Northbridge
1Gb DDR 2700
Asus P4S8X Mobo
SB Audigy 2 Sound Card
Chieftec Clear Side Mid-Tower Case 450w PS(Alienware Case)
DVD-ROM
CD-RW
Rounded ATA Cables
Paxmate
HDD Cooler
4 Antec Stealth Fans

$950

Recycled my HDD and GeF3 video card. I used Ebay for the major parts, no issues, great prices. I have no idea what it equates to, moneywise, in a pre-fab, but it doesn't really matter. Everything I have came with a warranty, and everything has tech support, so any issues I have I am covered. Computer has been running great for 4 months, it better keep going

If you find a store bought one that you are happy with, thats great, buy what you need and what makes you happy.

Demiurge

Good deal.

faster100

I think of it this way, I love my computers for computer tasks, playing games, surfing the internet, my checking account, letting me upgrade it every 3-6 months, with that said, its a computer not a stereo.. I have a stereo for music and movies... I can't see spending 100.00 or more dollars on a sound card,

and by the way the onboard sound on my MSI N-force sounds fine with my altec lansing sats and sub, It's a computer.. it sounds good for computer games.. if i want sound i'll use a Ps2 and my HT receiver.. get real... its not a jukebox....LOL

Demiurge

I've heard computers that sound better than a lot of home theatres.

I've heard computers and HT\Stereos that sound fantanstic when they've been integrated. I'm thinking of doing that as well.

faster100

Oh i have no doubt pc's can sound good, I have had a dvd drive and watched movies, and it was cool, at the time till it got old. I listen to internet radio and my own cd's and it sounded good with my small sub and satalites, till it got old.. I play quake 3 online, and networked in my house with my wife.. it sounds good and its fun , believe me i am a computer geek.. i love building computers, overclocking my video card and processor, doing case mods, I really like all 3 of our computers.. to say im a computer person is an understatment.. I spend hours a day on one.. doing bills, selling stuff for my living, buying stuff, playing games.. i'm all about it and have been for 6+ years.. BUT i just don't get into the sound all that much, matter of fact i have a switch box that powers everything including the speakers and i have it switched off most of the time,, don't care to hear doors open and close from my aim messenger, hear windows welcome music or ding ding when i make a mistake and a program crashes.. i upgrade about every 6 months.. processors, memory. motherboards some times make it 8-12 months.. i like current... puter gear.. i just bought this N-force board and my asus a7v133 was only 1 year old. and before that was 1 year or better... I love my puter but aint into a wasted amount of money on a 100.00 sound card or 300.00+ video card.. i aint about it, It never does sound that great and i have alot invested in my HT/stereo setup and don't plan to put that into a PC... BUt if you like puter sound thats cool, just not for me

GuitarheadCA

I have my Comp hooked up to my Audio rig - and although I can notice a differece in quality between my computer as a source and my CD player as a source, it's nice to download MP3's and be able to play them immediately, and surf my collection and listen to them with a click. However, whenever I sit down to do serious listening- it's definately NOT from my computer.



Okay, a few posts ago, I said I would build my next compter, the time has come. Just took the plunge, bought an MSI 865 NEO2, along w/ a new case, power supply and fans, and I'm gonna transfer everything else from my dell. I'm a little nervous- first PC I've ever built, and any advice is welcome. But I'm also WAY EXCITED:D

gidrah

I've got a Pentium. With a 1.6g hard drive, busted CD drive, 42meg RAM (I added some of it myself) am running Win'95 and I think my daughter disabled the souncard because the Sony Walkman speakers aren't working even after I replaced the batteries.:(

rs159

Originally posted by gidrah
I've got a Pentium. With a 1.6g hard drive, busted CD drive, 42meg RAM (I added some of it myself) am running Win'95 and I think my daughter disabled the souncard because the Sony Walkman speakers aren't working even after I replaced the batteries.:(

:eek: Dude.....my mp3 folder is bigger than your hard drive, and my 5 year old Pionex machine has more ram than that.

w
t
f
?

Demiurge

Just let us know what you might need help with.