I have a pair of rti12's and I need a good sub!!

messiah

bigreddog wrote: »

Ok ok I understand that even though my Onkyo advertises a "High Current" massive torodial power supply, the book must be telling lies. I just looked at a nice 7 channel amp last night for over $3000 and it only has ONE power supply so again I don't understand. If my book says I have (7) 135W 8 ohm amps inside, doesn't it?

Nope.

Do you honestly think in that 30 pound chassis there are 7 monoblock amps?

I really don't know why you are here asking questions, when it seems you don't want to hear the answers.

mdaudioguy

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

However I am I and you are you.

Ok I am going to say it.........200 watts a channel for the fronts may be your ticket.

RT1

More spot-on advice once again offered up with great patience, and hopes of being The One who gets through...
But, alas, you are correct - he is he and he is not you and he is not me. So, where does that leave us?
Those speaks, with that AVR and a Parasound amp, should be incredibly dynamic! This requires more than forum support. I think in-home assistance is required. I've said my piece. Good luck Clifford!

reeltrouble1

mdaudioguy wrote: »

So, where does that leave us?

deep in the hole. where there are places so dark they scare me.

RT1

mdaudioguy

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

deep in the hole. where there are places so dark they scare me.

RT1

:eek::eek::eek::p;):D!!

tonyb

If I didn't know better, Ted took a lightning bolt to the head. Somethings shorted out in there today.

bigreddog

No Messiah, i did not think there were 7 monoblock amps inside. There are 7 discrete sections all with 135W RMS at 8 ohms should I choose to listen to use them all. I am running expensive wire (audioquest's top of the line series) and they have 4 solid core wires in them with the most expensive ends I could get after auditioning just the ends. Some were a little colder and some warmer.

My receiver has NEVER clipped ONCE. My speakers have NEVER distorted once. My problem is that the bass units hardly move. I hooked back up the Parasound and THEN reset and started all over with my settings after a master reset. I ran the mic calibration crap again.

THEN I set the speakers to 30 on the crossover point and then I set them to FULL RANGE. I did all of this without even hooking up my new PSW505 sub. I wanted to see if I could get a GOOD AMOUNT of bass from these speakers and finally I DID! (Using the Parasound Amp). No what was the bass like? I went up and looked at those babies and they were pushing and pulling all over the place and I had the volume up, but not mind blowing up.

NOW what did the bass sound like? CRAP. It sounded like the woofers looks like (plastic sounding). The port were blowing a good amount of air through both sides but it sounded like plastic cups, not like a good sub.

I know most two channel people prefer no subs because they think a sub is nothing but sloppy loose bass made for movies. But if you get a really good musical tight sub, you will be much happier. These so-called "woofers" on these polks just plain suck!

I tried everything and made a million manual EQ adjustments and level adjustments and so on, which tells me that the Audessey mic calibration, the whole reason for switching from the Yamaha to the Onkyo, is not better at all. In fact it's worse! And yes I correctly setup Audessey per their website with my tripod at ear level in the 6 positions order just like the site tells you to do.

After I got everything done with 3 hours spent adjusting last night, I wrote down the setting and saved them on my backup! Then out of curiosity I kept the settings, went back to the Onkyo bi-amped, and I got MORE power and just as much bass!

So this morning I called Polk yet again and talked to yet another tech and asked him....ARE THE rti12's 4 ohm stable or not? He said they were actually MADE for 4 ohms but a little over 15 Years ago Polk made the mistake of labeling one of their high end speakers a 4ohms only speaker with a sticker on the back that said so. He said they never sold them because their reps had nothing to match these up to and it resulted in a surplus of these speakers more than any they've ever had before and they lost a lot of money on them. They said now, they will always label their "consumer line" as 8 ohms but this new tech, a different tech, confirmed once again that these speakers are so power demanding yet also but so tough and rigid that they actually recommend 4 ohms.

My last speakers (Bohlender Graebener) Radia 6 foot ribbons were 4 ohms only which is why I went with Yamaha back in the day and also is why I got the Parasound amp. They were marked 4 ohms only and yes it was a headache.

So now I had my system running with the Parasound and getting bass. Then I had it running with the Onkyo and also getting about the same bass actually. The highs were belting out good sound as well as the mids, but the bass drivers even while shaking, sounded nothing close to a "12 inch woofer". Then I did what multiple people mentioned on here. I set the rti12's to get nothing below 80hz and I installed my Polk SWS505 woofer and it sounded SO much better by basically eliminating the bass drivers on the rti12's.

So this morning at 7:30 a called my friend which is also my salesman at my local pro AV store. He asked if i still had my boxes and I said yes. He told me to box up my bad boys, load them in my minivan and bring them to his store where he could show me what I needed to get good bass out of them. He does not sell Onkyo but he does carry the Integra line which is about the same.

Once there we hooked them up, he was familiar with the speaker. He told me not to buy them back then but I told him I liked the look of them. I didn't tell him I could get them for $300 a pair with the CSi5 Center Channel.

He hooked them to an Integra equivalent to mine and agreed that the bass sucks. He also asked me if I thought the highs and mids sounded good and i said yes, but he said it sounded like a center channel to him. So he said, if anything will get these speakers shining, especially the bass drivers, is a KRELL Evolution 402e 2 channel amp he had on display. 400Wx2 @8ohms....800Wx2 @ 4 ohms....and 1600wX2 @ 2ohms! Yeah the bass moved then but I wasn't about to shell out $12,000 for it!

Then he hooked up another set of speakers but just to the same receiver but WITHOUT the Krell amp. They were Monitor Audio RX6 speakers. Then he let me audition those. He kept switching to my speakers with the $12,000 amp and then the Monitor Audio RX6 speakers with NO amp, just the receiver.

What did I notice? The Monitor Audio speakers without an amp sounded much better on the highs and mids. Then he put on a different song and asked me to listen to my Polks running on the $12,000 amp and then pay attention to just the bass when he switches to the Monitor Audio RX6 speakers. WTF!! The BASS was BETTER without even using an external amp. I felt embarrassed. He said, I could keep my speakers and get a much cheaper amp but its going to have to be bigger than my external amp. He even recommended buying two identical amps to have one control the highs and the other control the bass. And when I'm all done buying amps, I'll have a speaker set that doesn't even sound as good as the Monitor Audio RX6's that DON'T require an amp.

I felt stupid and I knew I wasn't going to invest another penny in amps or anything else for the speakers just to have them be inferior to the other speakers that work on a regular receiver. Then we addressed my new sub. It actually did quite well with both speakers. We basically shut off the awful bass on the Polk speakers and we kept that setting the same on the Monitor Audios. My sub sounded good on the polks and Monitor Audios. So I can lug my Polks home and just use them as the highs and mids, that don't sound as good as the Monitor Audios. OR I can just buy a pair of Monitor Audios ($999/PR).

Well I've bought a ton off the guy in the last couple years. A plasma TV, and LED TV, two blu-ray players (one denon and one higher end Sony), also two rack mount Monster Power Centers, and over $1000 in just audio cables. So, he gives me deals and he really made me a good deal. He said he'd give me $800 trade in for the Polk Speakers, which I only paid $300 for. Then I bought the Monitor Audio RX6 speakers for $999 for the pair which is cheaper than most and that's what Ebay is selling them for and I didn't have to pay shipping. Traded my Polk CSi5 center for the Monitor Audio Center Channel even up. Then we got down to the subs. He said my Polk will give me more deeper boom but the Definitive Super Cubes are much tighter and musical. I was originally interested in the SuperCube III but he said I'd want more bass than that. He offered me $500 in trade for my Parasound HCA-1500 and I bought a SuperCube II instead of the III. 1250watt sub amp and hits down to 14hz yet still tight bass for MUSIC. I paid only $800 for the SuperCube II and got $500 for my old amp.

So for a grand total of $500 +tax I have a new pair of Dark Cherry Monitor Audio RX6 speakers, a matching Monitor Audio Center Channel, and a Definitive Super Cube II. I also still have my Polk SWS505 sub which he told me to hookup as a second sub for movies and on the music just shut it's power button off.

I now have a great sounding system that blows the Polks out of the water in every way possible. Highs, Mids, Lows, and they aren't near as power hungry which will run on my receiver with no extra amp(s) required. Plus they are more warmer and musical sounding instead of theater sounding like the Polks sound. And, I also got a kick butt sub and my polk sub just in case.

cstmar01

wow.... really, really.

There is just so much for me to say, at this point I'm not even going to say it. Best of luck if you think one 3 hour session is all you need to figure out what you want. Guess I'm screwed...

concealer404

Can i... just HAVE your RTi12s?

Toolfan66

concealer404 wrote: »

Can i... just HAVE your RTi12s?

They would be in a better home...

mdaudioguy

This is beyond belief, but at least progress is being made - he's now using the Return key!

Baby steps...

cstmar01

The one thing I always find that is interesting is why people think that because they have the 7in woofers in the tower its going to output bass like a sub? I mean when I had the A9's hooked up to the adcom and what not, yes it had bass, but bass on a sub is totally different, and thats why people buy them.

Also once again. Do NOT ever go by factory spec sheet. Sorry but I would highly highly doubt your AVR is putting out 135 W RMS/channel all channels driven. Just because a manf says something does not always make it true. Its like seeing McDonalds commericals with a bunch of skinny people in them. is eating McDonalds really healthy for you? no, but they want you to think that way now don't they...

btw I have a sheet here that says you owe me 1K, I found it in my AVR box....

cnoat

Lmao

treitz3

Some people's kids.......

messiah

In the future please do some research about ohms before you start talking about them.

There are no such thing as "4 ohm stable" speakers. The ability to perform under a 4 ohm load falls upon the amplifier. Most speakers these days, Including the RTi12 are 8 ohm speakers, meaning that they produce an average impedance of 8ohms. This is not an absolute, and during certain musical passages, the impedance will drop below 8 ohms, producing more strain on the amplifier. It is no bad thing to have an amplifier that will handle a 4 ohm load, but it's not required for 8 ohm speakers, such as your former rti12's.

I also feel enlightened to know that Polk's Lsi line are not part of their consumer line of products. I'll have to let Fry's know to pull them off the floor immediately, as they should only have polks out there that are 8 ohm speakers.

Enjoy your new Monitor Audio speakers (which btw are 6 ohm speakers lol!!), and your new subwoofer.

cstmar01

also seeing the dealer is your personal friend bet it feels great to make a deal knowing you paid less than what he offered you in on trade. great friendship if you ask me, relationships based upon not fully disclosing information, what life is all about.....