Recommended caps for Carver C-1 re-cap

Fongolio
Fongolio Posts: 3,516
edited October 2010 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
Like the title says. I'm going to replace the electrolytics in my Carver C-1 and I'm looking for recommendations for what brand(s) to get and possibly where to get them. Thanks.

Kelvin
SDA-1C (full mods)
Carver TFM-55
NAD 1130 Pre-amp
Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
The Clamp
Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
Ben's IC's
Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
Post edited by Fongolio on
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    edited August 2010
    Hello Kelvin,
    Are these in the power supply or part of the audio path?
    Regards, Ken
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited August 2010
    Kenneth Swauger wrote: »
    Hello Kelvin,
    Are these in the power supply or part of the audio path?
    Regards, Ken

    Both Ken. Interestingly they must have been changed at one time because the values on the parts list don't always correspond to the values in the pcb. I'm sure I've got the right cap numbers on the board and when I compare that to the parts list several of the values are incorrect. Some too high and some too low. I want to swap them all for the correct ones according to the parts list in my service manual.
    SDA-1C (full mods)
    Carver TFM-55
    NAD 1130 Pre-amp
    Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
    The Clamp
    Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
    Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
    Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
    ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
    Ben's IC's
    Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2010
    Nichicon FG and KZ are good for coupling and low voltage positions.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    If electrolytics are used for coupling you might want to change them to film's assuming smaller values.For power supply and decoupling purposes the Panasonic FC's are a good choice.If due to size a lytic is needed for coupling the Sanyo Oscons are very good.
    Face wrote: »
    ... low voltage positions.
    huh?
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    huh?
    Eh? :D

    They're only available in low voltage ratings, the probably wouldn't be suitable for PS/Filter caps. ;)
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    Face wrote: »
    Eh? :D

    They're only available in low voltage ratings, the probably wouldn't be suitable for PS/Filter caps. ;)

    Otay,being as it's SS I wouldn't expect any high voltages.;)
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2010
    10-4.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited August 2010
    The highest voltage caps are the power supply caps 1 rated at 50 watts and 3 at 35 watts.
    SDA-1C (full mods)
    Carver TFM-55
    NAD 1130 Pre-amp
    Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
    The Clamp
    Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
    Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
    Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
    ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
    Ben's IC's
    Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    By change do you have a schematic?I would be interested in looking at the Sonic Holography circuit.
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  • backsigns
    backsigns Posts: 87
    edited August 2010
    FG, I've sent you the schematic for the C-1 to your email address. It's too big to post here.

    The caps that are different in the C-1 from the schematic are typical of others who have re-capped the C-1. I believe they are just different voltage ratings. Follow the schematic or the board, both seem to work.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    Thanks bunches backsigns,i recieved it.
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  • backsigns
    backsigns Posts: 87
    edited August 2010
    Here is the C-9 schematic. A stand-alone Sonic Holography processor for your curious mind :cool:
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    edited August 2010
    Hello Kelvin,
    In my opinion the best sounding, most reasonably priced caps are the Elna SILMIC II caps. They seem to be the successor to the Black Gate caps that have been discontinued. They can be found at the Digikey web site for most values.
    For power supply the Panasonic are still great choices, perhaps bypassed with smaller value film types.
    Good luck with your project.
    Ken
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    Looking at the schematic it looks like there are a number of 22uf 16volt electrolytics used for coupling that youll'want to replace with A premium low impedance 105 degree types.( like those recommended by Face and Ken and myself). You might also increase the filter capacitance by replacing the 1000uf filter caps with 2200uf's.Also IMO some substantial sonic gains could be had by upgrading some of the opamps in key postions to more modern devices.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    backsigns wrote: »
    Here is the C-9 schematic. A stand-alone Sonic Holography processor for your curious mind :cool:
    Thanks,not surprisingly very much similar to the SH circuit in the C1.Lots of opamps added to the signal path when SH is enganged.:eek:.
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited August 2010
    Thanks for all the input you guys. I now have a much better idea on what to get. I'm now thinking about the op-amps as well.
    SDA-1C (full mods)
    Carver TFM-55
    NAD 1130 Pre-amp
    Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
    The Clamp
    Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
    Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
    Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
    ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
    Ben's IC's
    Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    Thanks,not surprisingly very much similar to the SH circuit in the C1.Lots of opamps added to the signal path when SH is enganged.:eek:.

    Hey Fred, How u doing? Thought your posts look similar to someone I know. :D

    Yep, adding pads in the soundstage to make it larger than what it is. Like a padded things underneath the skin that woman wear.

    But I am not saying it sounds bad. It's like people want to see bigger things. In this case, bigger soundstage with more depth. I decided SH is never a thing for me and turned off SH when I tried the carver pre.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    Otay,being as it's SS I wouldn't expect any high voltages.;)
    Face wrote: »
    10-4.

    Who wins? :D

    IMO, Nichicon FG and KZ series are excellent lytics for the low cost big capacitance money can buy. I used them whenever I can but they are physically larger than most caps so fitting might be an issue.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • backsigns
    backsigns Posts: 87
    edited August 2010
    They'll fit, plenty of room in the C-1
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    Who wins? :D
    Neither.:)The voltage requirements for the filter and coupling caps are only 25 and 16 volts respectively.Mikes suggestion was solid I just wasn't sure where he was going with the low voltage comment.
    IMO, Nichicon FG and KZ series are excellent lytics for the low cost big capacitance money can buy. I used them whenever I can but they are physically larger than most caps so fitting might be an issue.
    Good to know James,I use the Panny FC's in most of my projects and would expect them to be more or less equivilent.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    Hey Fred, How u doing? Thought your posts look similar to someone I know. :D
    Hi James good to see you posting you must have been on a hiatus aswell.Things are good for me health wise right now.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    Hi James good to see you posting you must have been on a hiatus aswell.Things are good for me health wise right now.

    Hi Fred, It's nice to know you are in good health now and let's keep it that way? ;)

    I don't post in CP a lot now but the new LSi-M got my butt back in the forum again. Anyway, I looked at the C-1 SM just now since I was given a hard time by some guys in the Carver site forum. In the C-1 SM, I only see the SH circuit as a block. I am guessing it is some kind of DSP or ASIC chip there?

    Anyway, do you know any good replacement for C-1 balanced pot? It's an old alps 20kax2 and the one in mine is shot. It's 20K dual gang 6mm D shaft. I am thinking a step attenuator since the original alps pot is not easy to find.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    and let's keep it that way? ;)
    Thanks I'm hoping.
    I don't post in CP a lot now but the new LSi-M got my butt back in the forum again.
    Yeah they look impressive ,I can't wait to get an ear on them.
    Anyway, I looked at the C-1 SM just now since I was given a hard time by some guys in the Carver site forum.
    Stirring up trouble were ya.;):D
    In the C-1 SM, I only see the SH circuit as a block. I am guessing it is some kind of DSP or ASIC chip there?
    There is another page detailing the SH circuit.It is implemented with 'ancient' opamps(9 or 10 per ch. :eek:). Backsigns sent me the SM with the SH section included ,I can forward it to your email if you'd like.
    Anyway, do you know any good replacement for C-1 balanced pot? It's an old alps 20kax2 and the one in mine is shot. It's 20K dual gang 6mm D shaft.
    I have a nice slightly used 10kx2 NOBLE that might work if you want it.
    I am thinking a step attenuator since the original alps pot is not easy to find.
    Good idea.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    Stirring up trouble were ya.;):D

    I wish but No. I don't have time or have any will to get into pissing contest anywhere these days. I didn't stir anything. :D
    There is another page detailing the SH circuit.It is implemented with 'ancient' opamps(9 or 10 per ch. :eek:). Backsigns sent me the SM with the SH section included ,I can forward it to your email if you'd like.

    I see. Thanks for the offer to send me one but I think I may have the same one here too. I probably need to read more to find it though.
    I have a nice slightly used 10kx2 NOBLE that might work if you want it.Good idea.

    I probably should stop working on the weekend and read my posts. I said Balanced POT but it's wrong. I am looking for Volume Pot. I am afraid the noble pot is not going to work. I will just order a step attenuator on eBay and get this over with.

    Thanks for the help and offer though!
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    Fongolio wrote: »
    I'm now thinking about the op-amps as well.

    I think it would worth the effort to upgrade them atleast the main gain section IC7.The stock 4136's are quads but there are adaptors(see link) that will allow you to use a pair of dual opamps which widens the choice considerably.
    This is good as there are very few hi performance quads available.There is another advantage to upgrading to newer premium opamps.
    Because of their inherently lower levels of DC offset you could probably eliminate the output coupling caps associated with them and directly couple them.


    http://www.jlmaudio.com/4136%20to%202%20x%20NE5532.htm
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »

    I see. Thanks for the offer to send me one but I think I may have the same one here too. I probably need to read more to find it though.
    Check the bottom pages.
    I am afraid the noble pot is not going to work. I will just order a step attenuator on eBay and get this over with.

    Yeah the Noble is a balance control. I purchased A 20k series stepped att. off of ebay from a company called Valab (IIRC $25).It has worked flawlessly in my preamp for the last 9 months or so.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    Check the bottom pages.



    Yeah the Noble is a balance control. I purchased A 20k series stepped att. off of ebay from a company called Valab (IIRC $25).It has worked flawlessly in my preamp for the last 9 months or so.

    Yep, you are right! I looked at the C-1 SM again and found the SH generator circuit. Many Many Op-amps there. :D:eek:

    Valab it is. Thanks for making my life simpler again. ;)
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • ViperZ
    ViperZ Posts: 2,046
    edited August 2010
    I never touched my C-1 and hopefully never will. I found that really good electrolytics for the signal path are ELNA audio-grade. In Ontario, parts connexion is is selling them.

    For power supply, it probably doesn't matter, but what you will find is that you can go with a bigger value modern cap (higher V / higher capacitance) which will fit in a space where old electrolytic cap was sitting. I usually look at the life test values - something like 3000 hours @ 105C makes me feel better ;). So I usually end up with either Kemet or Panasonic industrial-grade caps (Kemet also makes military caps, which we use in the spacecrafts).
    Panasonic PT-AE4000U projector for movies
    Carada 106" Precision Series (Classic Cinema White)
    Denon AVR-X3600H pre/pro
    Outlaw 770 7-channel amplifier
    B&W CDM1-SE fronts
    B&W CDM-CNT center
    B&W CDM1 rears on MoPADs
    JBL SP8CII in-ceiling height speakers
    Samsung DTB-H260F OTA HDTV tuner
    DUAL NHT SubTwo subwoofers
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-Ray player
    Belkin PF60 Power Center
    Harmony 1100 RF remote with RF extender
    Sony XBR-X950G 55" 4K HDR Smart TV + PS3 in the living room
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited August 2010
    I'm going to replace op amps as well. I've found an adapter for the 14 pin socket and am considering the three op amps Burr Brown OPA2604, Burr Brown OPA 2134, and Analog Devices AD8066. Now I'm seeking opinions on the BB's or the AD unit and which ones on the board to replace. I don't use sonic holography so the ones in those circuits are of no matter to me. I'm still not positive the AD's are voltage compatible and also can't find them online. Can anyone send me a link to where either the BB's or the AD's are sold. And if there are better ones available I'm all ears. Thanks
    SDA-1C (full mods)
    Carver TFM-55
    NAD 1130 Pre-amp
    Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
    The Clamp
    Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
    Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
    Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
    ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
    Ben's IC's
    Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited August 2010
    http://www.digikey.com/
    Digi Key carries Ti/BB and the AD product line as well as Panasonic,Nichicon caps etc.
    You can order a free (very large) print catalog from them.l


    I have used the OPA2604,and 2134 but my current fave dual opamp is Nationals LM4562.(also available from Digi Key) Heres the datasheet. http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM4562.pdf

    Be aware that due to it's age the pinout of the stock 4136 opamp is non standard so your adaptor will have to convert the pin placement also.
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