Accidental Room Treatments
Comments
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DarqueKnight wrote: »...Crap can't be continually refined and optimized. Crap does not provide continually improving performance in conjunction with improved associated equipment. Crap remains crap no matter what you do to, or with, it.
As I read that I envisioned a pottery wheel spinning and ....ah you get the picture :eek:;) - Hey you never know, with a top notch pottery wheel you just might end up with a masterpeice :cool:TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »Ray,
where did you buy your grill cloth?? I bought some from parts express and it just wasn't rich in the black as I like, almost a deep purple if that makes sense ...
I recall reading a lot of comments about the lack of black in their cloth at PE. They have another black cloth but its twice as thick (seems to be a selling point?) and 3 times the price but no reviews.
I don't suppose you could re-dye it could you?
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So what are the qualities too look for as a good match for a speaker grill cloth, esp when shopping in a fabric store?--I'm doubting that the sales people at Joanne Fabrics are going to know which cloths are more acoustically transparent than another. Looking at DK's pics, it seems that more visually transparent at close range is better?
The GIK's appear to be canvas--I haven't looked much into acoustic panel construction yet, but it seems like a quick method might be to take a canvas painting, fill the back space with some acoustic material/insulation, and whalaa, instant acoustic panels and art of your choice at the same time.____________________
This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »Ray,
where did you buy your grill cloth?? I bought some from parts express and it just wasn't rich in the black as I like, almost a deep purple if that makes sense so I went looking for another company for grill cloth and found speaker works. There I was able to buy a small sample for $1 and it was black as night. So now I have 6 yards of grill cloth from parts express cut to fit a set of big boys in box that I know I will never use.
I know this is kinda of topic just curious. I will be buying some more room treatments in the next month or so..
I bought this one http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-332 and it is close to identical to the originals. Slightly more transparent when you hold it against the light. But it is Black.HT/2 CH
McIntosh MX120, MC500, MC206, MEN220
polkaudio SDA SRS 1.2TL, XO, Inductor, Tweeter, Larry's rings, WBT Binding posts, Moretite and Dynamat mod. Built by Mollie Jones 27:th of February 1991, CS350-LS XO mod, LS-f/x, DSW MicroPro 4000
MIT Shotgun S3.3 Bi-wire SC, Shotgun S3.3 SC, Shotgun S3.3 Proline IC, Shotgun S3.3 IC, Shotgun S3.3 Sub cable, AVT 1 Optical IC, EXP 3 Speaker interconnect. -
DK have you ever tried electronic room correction? I could not believe the difference my MEN220 is doing to the sound. Just a thought. How about framing the panels and have some artist paint them to match your existing paintings on that wall. Honestly you are lowering the real estate value in your area with these things on the wall.HT/2 CH
McIntosh MX120, MC500, MC206, MEN220
polkaudio SDA SRS 1.2TL, XO, Inductor, Tweeter, Larry's rings, WBT Binding posts, Moretite and Dynamat mod. Built by Mollie Jones 27:th of February 1991, CS350-LS XO mod, LS-f/x, DSW MicroPro 4000
MIT Shotgun S3.3 Bi-wire SC, Shotgun S3.3 SC, Shotgun S3.3 Proline IC, Shotgun S3.3 IC, Shotgun S3.3 Sub cable, AVT 1 Optical IC, EXP 3 Speaker interconnect. -
TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »I bought some from parts express and it just wasn't rich in the black as I like, almost a deep purple if that makes sense so I went looking for another company for grill cloth and found speaker works.
The Ponte cloth is thin and dark black with a silky sheen.So what are the qualities too look for as a good match for a speaker grill cloth, esp when shopping in a fabric store?--I'm doubting that the sales people at Joanne Fabrics are going to know which cloths are more acoustically transparent than another. Looking at DK's pics, it seems that more visually transparent at close range is better?
Visual transparency relates to how coarse the fibers are and how tight the weave is. The finer the fiber and the looser the weave, the less material there is to block sound.
I took the stock fabric to the store and asked see thin black knit fabrics. I explained that I was going to use the fabric to cover the front of speakers. The sales lady at Hancock Fabrics told me that they actually sold a fabric specifically for speakers (or they did several years ago when I did the initial shopping). Their speaker fabric was coarse, like the stock SDA fabric. I only found three fabrics that I liked. The Ponte cloth was the lightest weight fabric that would still hide the drivers, plus it had the best looking color and finish. I bought a couple of yards and hung it over one of the 1.2TL's. Unlike the stock grille fabric, I could not hear a difference when it was in place.DK have you ever tried electronic room correction?
Not yet.Honestly you are lowering the real estate value in your area with these things on the wall.
Aside from the surface flaws, I don't think they look bad.I bought this one http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-332 and it is close to identical to the originals. Slightly more transparent when you hold it against the light. But it is Black.
Light Test Comparison of Stock 1.2TL Fabric to Ponte Fabric
Figure 1. Stock 1.2TL grille fabric held 1 foot from camera lens.
Figure 2. Ponte upgrade 1.2TL grille fabric held 1 foot from camera lens.
Figure 3. Stock 1.2TL grille fabric held 1 inch from camera lens.
Figure 4. Ponte upgrade 1.2TL grille fabric held 1 inch from camera lens.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DK have you ever tried electronic room correction? I could not believe the difference my MEN220 is doing to the sound. Just a thought. How about framing the panels and have some artist paint them to match your existing paintings on that wall. Honestly you are lowering the real estate value in your area with these things on the wall.DarqueKnight wrote: »Not yet.
This I find interesting. I was thinking of trying out electronic (digital) room correction a while back. I asked around quite a bit and the overall consensus was that the SDA effect would screw up the electronic room treatments.
Ray or Janne, do you have any thoughts on this? -
hearingimpared wrote: »I was thinking of trying out electronic (digital) room correction a while back. I asked around quite a bit and the overall consensus was that the SDA effect would screw up the electronic room treatments.
This is something I would play around with, but I am generally resistant to introducing another box in the signal chain. I don't know of any SDA owner who is using, or has used, digital room correction.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I love (Audyssey) room correction for HT applications. Particularly in correcting low frequency problems.
It sucks the very life out of music for some reason though. Perhaps it's because I have such a low-end version of the software in my little Onkyo. It really does the trick with movies though.
I prefer absolutely zero eq for 2 channel listening. Wall treatments are high on my "next to-do" list.-Kevin
HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
2 Channel:
Oppo BDP-83 SE
Squeezebox Touch
Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
VTL 2.5
McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
B&W 801's
Transparent IC's -
DarqueKnight wrote: »This is something I would play around with, but I am generally resistant to introducing another box in the signal chain. I don't know of any SDA owner who is using, or has used, digital room correction.
I'm of the same mind with that. -
DarqueKnight wrote: »This is something I would play around with, but I am generally resistant to introducing another box in the signal chain. I don't know of any SDA owner who is using, or has used, digital room correction.
I will make a full review of the MEN220 with the 1.2TL's as soon as I finish my latest upgrade.HT/2 CH
McIntosh MX120, MC500, MC206, MEN220
polkaudio SDA SRS 1.2TL, XO, Inductor, Tweeter, Larry's rings, WBT Binding posts, Moretite and Dynamat mod. Built by Mollie Jones 27:th of February 1991, CS350-LS XO mod, LS-f/x, DSW MicroPro 4000
MIT Shotgun S3.3 Bi-wire SC, Shotgun S3.3 SC, Shotgun S3.3 Proline IC, Shotgun S3.3 IC, Shotgun S3.3 Sub cable, AVT 1 Optical IC, EXP 3 Speaker interconnect. -
On another forum I frequent, everyone raves about the MEN220."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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The Auralex C24 panels arrived yesterday. As expected, they were a big step up aesthetically from the GIK 242 panels. As soon as I opened the Auralex box, I knew the GIK panels were going back...even if the Auralex panels didn't perform as well as the GIK panels...even though the Auralex panels cost 65% more than the GIK panels.
Figure 1. The Auralex C24 panels were a better match for my contemporary decor.
Figure 2. Auralex C24 panel closeup: Textured fabric tightly drawn over a beveled-edge fiberglass acoustic panel.
From the website pictures, and color name (sandstone), I thought the Auralex C24 panels were covered in a beige fabric. It was actually a light gray color. I liked it.
Figure 3. Auralex C24 panels on the wall.
Figure 4. GIK Acoustics 242 panels on the wall. The acoustic performance was excellent. The fit and finish was unacceptable.
Figure 5. Room response with three Auralex C24 panels on wall behind speakers.
Figure 6. Room response with three GIK 242 panels on wall behind speakers.
The room response measured with the ADC SS-412X spectrum analyzer and white noise was brighter with the Auralex panels: +2 dB at 1 kHz, 2 kHz, 16 kHz and 32 kHz. However, I did not hear a difference between the Auralex panels and the GIK panels with the mostly instrumental music I listened to. Differences may have became apparent if I had listened to a wide variety of music types. From 500 Hz down, the response of the GIK and Auralex panels was identical. Bear in mind that the SS-412X is not a laboratory grade spectrum analyzer.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DK, as always your reviews and experiments are a delight to read. We can truly see how much you enjoy this hobby by the amount of effort you take in thoroughly weeding out as much grey area as possible to come to a valuable conclusion, and how much effort you go to in sharing it with all of us. Just want to say - Thanks! (and don't stop)
Sorry if this gets your mind going, but I have to ask for my own curiosity. I have my speakers setup against a window/door area where it is a full drapery treatment behind them, and my floors are carpeted. I wonder how this is different than most, especially how different wood floors are to carpet?..... ><////(*> -
I have my speakers setup against a window/door area where it is a full drapery treatment behind them, and my floors are carpeted. I wonder how this is different than most, especially how different wood floors are to carpet?
My room treatment experience is limited to dealer showrooms, other people's homes and, in my own home, area rugs and the wall panels discussed in this thread. Accordingly, I am not the best person to ask about room treatments.
How reflective materials, such as wood floors, and absorptive materials, such as draperies, affect room response depends on a combination of factors such as room size, furnishings, room shape, ceiling height, etc.
You do need to do some type of room analysis, whether it is a software program, spectrum analyzer/microphone setup or sending your room measurements and configuration to a professional company for evaluation. Don't assume that just because things sound good, there is not a lot of room for improvement. I have always been surprised by the improvements that room treatments have provided to systems that already sounded excellent.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Raife if anyone should know that accidentals add interest it would be you.
Just blow baby.
RT1
