Turntable is go?

vc69

Congrats Jon! I clicked on the link in your sig. Boy do I ever have some studying to do.

doctorcilantro

vc69 wrote: »

Congrats Jon! I clicked on the link in your sig. Boy do I ever have some studying to do.

Had a little hum and forgot I had my gronding strap handy, so I reach behind the table and clipped one aligator clip to the rear spike/point, and the other to my mic preamp (linear gain phono stage) and the hum is gone.

I just got Ray Lamontagne new album on vinyl. Sounded incredible last night. Really liking this table and the Delrin platter so far; I'm not hearing any surface noise. with a new LP at least. I didn't wash it but will probably clean everything when possible, even new ones.

VC - Thanks, I'm trying to post more stuff; hoping some of it will be useful to some folks.

vc69

What the heck is the canister for Jon?

http://www.polkaudio.com/images/showcase/707_6_big.jpg?rand=341083249

doctorcilantro

vc69 wrote: »

What the heck is the canister for Jon?

http://www.polkaudio.com/images/showcase/707_6_big.jpg?rand=341083249

Laughing gas. Makes the sound that much better after a few deep breaths.

Actually, that's a ballast tank for the airbearing arm; helps to smooth out the pump's air flow to the arm. Here's a shot at our old place prior to setup; the yellow tube goes into the base of the arm and there is about 10 feet of 1/2" medical tubing running down to the air pump which is in a box next to the ballast tank (can't hear it):

vc69

I'm blown away by your various setups, as well as your approach to playback of analog sources. I can't say I totally understand it, but I think I "get" it. Mighty cool and quite an undertaking to get all the various tech to play nice and ultimately, sound good. I would love to hear your systems sometime.

doctorcilantro

Thanks for your kind words. I would never suggest to anyone this is the best way to do this but since I rip vinyl and use my PC for everything, it is something exciting to try, no doubt. I know a lot of people simply make a transcription of an LP and it often blows away the CD remaster. You'd think that mastering engineers would seek to salvage the dynamics, but I guess quite often, this gets lost?

I think some benefits of digital RIAA:

• real-time noise reduction (if necessary or desired)
• archival setup already implemented
• extra gain for LOMM (Grado) since you can use a single device (no step up in conjuction with phono stage) - they suggest 56db for Grado low output and I'm using 60db with room to spare in new recordings and have up to 83db with JFET ribbon preamp.
• the most accurate RIAA curve (highly accurate analog isn't too hard though)
• possibly enhancement of the midrange+ due to ADC taking place prior to RIAA curve (see the white paper)
• digital rumble filters

The AEA TRP is a match made in heaven for the low output Grados.

hearingimpared

This is all great stuff Doc! Thanks for posting it all. Love that Delrin platter . . . oh I said that already!:D

doctorcilantro

I double-checked various alignments last night. Made sure channels are wired up okay. I may have a cold solder joint on one cart. lead though. Noisefloor (peaks) is quite a bit higher on that channel (10db) and the wire wasn't soldered well as I barely handled it and it fell off. So I re-soldered it myself and not sure it's 100% though I do get great sound.

Listened to SQ version of **** Brew for a while. whoa!

doctorcilantro

Anyone ever get a brand new release, sealed LP, with a bunch of surface marks?

I need to open another, check it, play it, and look at the result.

There's no way a single play of each side with no mistracking caused this.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

Anyone ever get a brand new release, sealed LP, with a bunch of surface marks?

I need to open another, check it, play it, and look at the result.

There's no way a single play of each side with no mistracking caused this.

Yes indeed Doc, several times. Even if it played okay and there was no sound issues, I was on the phone with the dealer and demanding a new one.

A few years back when I was able to afford to buy lots of new LPs I learned a harsh lesson. The online dealers like Elusive Disc and Accoustic Sound give you 30 days to check out the LP. Well I was buying so many at the time that I wouldn't get to open, prep them and play them in that 30 time frame. Thinking it was new LPs I was in no rush but I found out later that is not true. I can think of several new LPs or LP box sets that I purchased and they were scuffed, had surface marks, dish like warps, spindle holes way off center etc. After that I always opened the LP right away and at least gave it a visual inspection. One incident that comes to mine is, I bought a rerelease of Abby Road. Every single copy they sent me, on side two had distortion on the outer tracks. Finally after the third try they found one that was just fine and sent it to me. These records had no visible damage, the problem was in the grooves where without a microscope they were invisible to the naked eye.

doctorcilantro

I've asked Soundstage Direct for a replacement. I also have the newly issued remastered Kind Of Blue; will have to open that and inspect it tonight.

I have a BUNCH of unopened stuff older than 30 days. I'll definitely stop letting them idle on the shelf from now on.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

I've asked Soundstage Direct for a replacement. I also have the newly issued remastered Kind Of Blue; will have to open that and inspect it tonight.

I have a BUNCH of unopened stuff older than 30 days. I'll definitely stop letting them idle on the shelf from now on.

A wise decision! I just came across half a dozen or so brand new LPs that bought 3 years ago and haven't opened yet. UGH!!!

doctorcilantro

I've got the Kind of Blue remaster, think it was just released. I opened it to check it out and its on blue vinyl, limited to 3K copies. Hard to see surface marks actually.

doctorcilantro

Anyone have a Grado wood body?

Notice the black generator housing under the cart. Looking dead on at your cart from front, is the bottom of the generator perfectly parallel with the wood bottom of the cart? Mine is such that I have to cant my cart off azimuth a few degrees in order to make the stylus and generator housing aligned (generator being parallel to LP surface and stylus being perpendicular of course).

Anyway, question about the Grado which I will also email to them. The cart sounds good but it has been a bit of a challenge as the generator housing is not aligned to the bottom of the cartridge. It LOOKS like the stylus was aligned to be perpendicular to the black generator housing, and I should of course align accordingly.

Not a big deal, but to do so my cart is canted a couple of degrees off level; enough so that at first glance it looks like the cart has a horribly set azimuth. Just wondering if there is any detriment to performance because of this (weight distribution?).

doctorcilantro

btw - is it safe to post a short sample for turntable setup evaluation? Maybe I should keep that off the forums.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

Anyone have a Grado wood body?

Notice the black generator housing under the cart. Looking dead on at your cart from front, is the bottom of the generator perfectly parallel with the wood bottom of the cart? Mine is such that I have to cant my cart off azimuth a few degrees in order to make the stylus and generator housing aligned (generator being parallel to LP surface and stylus being perpendicular of course).

Anyway, question about the Grado which I will also email to them. The cart sounds good but it has been a bit of a challenge as the generator housing is not aligned to the bottom of the cartridge. It LOOKS like the stylus was aligned to be perpendicular to the black generator housing, and I should of course align accordingly.

Not a big deal, but to do so my cart is canted a couple of degrees off level; enough so that at first glance it looks like the cart has a horribly set azimuth. Just wondering if there is any detriment to performance because of this (weight distribution?).

Off the Grado topic;

I had a Dynavector 10 x 5 that was like that. The difference with that cart was the cantilever was slightly askew so I had to shim the cartridge body where it made contact with the headshell of the SME V to get the azimuth right. I called the manufacturer and told them about it. They said that since the cartridge was working and performing just fine that they would refund half my money for the trouble or give me a new cartridge. I took the refund because the cartridge perfermormed flawlessly once adjusted.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

btw - is it safe to post a short sample for turntable setup evaluation? Maybe I should keep that off the forums.

Unless it's copyrighted I see no problems with posting it. I would definitely be interested in seeing it.

You may want to post it in this thread. We can then keep all the tips on vinyl setup, maintenance and care in one thread.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101122

doctorcilantro

hearingimpared wrote: »

Unless it's copyrighted I see no problems with posting it. I would definitely be interested in seeing it.

You may want to post it in this thread. We can then keep all the tips on vinyl setup, maintenance and care in one thread.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101122

So you mean only public domain stuff? Or is a short 30 second sample fair use? I'll have to read up as maybe even the new changes to the MCA affect this.

doctorcilantro

I really need to get a shim; most records don't make great contact with the platter. I'm surprised ClearAudio didn't include one.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

I really need to get a shim; most records don't make great contact with the platter. I'm surprised ClearAudio didn't include one.

I'm checking my clamp supply boxes for delrins shims I provided for my clamp for quadzilla. If I come across some I'll send it/them to you too.

doctorcilantro

Thanks! that would be great; I really need to find one.

doctorcilantro

Here is a shot of 192kHz recording without a record playing. What is interesting is that the digital VU meters in Wavelab will show what looks like a high nose floor (which goes up with sample rate), but it is misleading due to the noise being spread out across the spectrum. You can see at 44kHz, shrinking the bandwidth, how the FFT analysis has changed.

192kHz:


44kHz:


See the party, and harmonics, at 60hz?

The small imbalance (3db) could be a number of these, most likely the cart itself, but I also have to run a loopback after calibrating my DAC output to calibrate the phono preamp because in addition to stepped pots it has smooth variable ones too which I need to match and leave alone.

doctorcilantro

And here is a look at the MG1 resonance with a Grado Reference. The cart shakes at the very end of the track which stops at 10hz. The Hi-Fi News test record goes lower and has both horizontal and vertical resonance tests. This one from the Ultimate Test Record is vertical:

doctorcilantro

Above FFT graph in purple shows 10hz hump which you can see at the very end of this wavform.

doctorcilantro

Haven't done any resonance tests yet, not reallt that worried about it. Tonight I put my old copper litz back on and think something is wrong with my 'premium' silver wire and Xhadow XLRs. Noise floor is down and I get better shielding as evidenced when I move my hand towards and near the Voice.

So, I calibrated my AEA TRP tonight using a 24/96 mono sine wave out of my DAC; used the same balanced output and just ran it into each balanaced input of the AES preamp in succession.

The big win was analysis of the finally set up Verus II motor. The ClearAudio motor is spec'd at .05% wow & flutter, and I actually got just that a few months ago when testing.

Now look at the Verus II from Teres Audio, could be some empricial evidence as to why it seems to sound 'smoother' and 'more together....cohesive.

Pretty impressive.

• 

doctorcilantro

Nasty rumble with Verus though, very audible. Could be the design of my table's bearing and a bad mechanical interaction/feedback; the red is the Verus:

• 

Fongolio

Just wanting to clarify in my mind Doc, you are not using a pre amp as such so there is no RIAA equalization until you add it digitally through your monitoring source? I'm just curious why? Is it that you want full control over the source signal and that want it completely flat as it was on the record, or that you can do a better job equalizing digitally than a phono pre could?

Kelvin

doctorcilantro

Fongolio wrote: »

Just wanting to clarify in my mind Doc, you are not using a pre amp as such so there is no RIAA equalization until you add it digitally through your monitoring source? I'm just curious why? Is it that you want full control over the source signal and that want it completely flat as it was on the record, or that you can do a better job equalizing digitally than a phono pre could?

Kelvin

hey! I mailed your clip late sorry! Lost in holiday shuffle.

technically it is the most accurate RIAA curve, and some argue phase issues exist in analog. just something i got into, and you can eQ the cart but i haven't done that yet.

Also, many very impressive gain stages for mic pres available with specs as good as 3-4K audiophile phono stages.

I'll post some samples comparing the Grado to Voice soon.