Turntable is go?

doctorcilantro

Almost done setting up my turntable, after what, a year? Geez.

I picked up some silver litz, and I have leveled everything, azimuth set, aligned the arm to centerline (linear tracker), set VTF and VTA (which may need recheck after phono clips), hooked up my peripherals, verified speed, and now just have to get the phono clips on the cart pins.

These pins are really tight and I almost wrecked my litz assuming they would slide right on. i thought I could try slipping a razor blade in there and gently torquing them open a tiny bit.

Excited to get this rig online after the long hiatus.:eek:

quadzilla

Nice.... what table, cart, arm, etc. do you have?

nooshinjohn

Pics or it didn't happen... Come on man, you know the rules.


Slacker!!!:D;)

thsmith

Tweezers work for me.

What will be your first LP ?

doctorcilantro

Ah pics, of course. I never have very good light in here though when I have time. I sold my Bix table last year and half my tube collection, and got my dealer to give me a 20% discount. Big splurge but you know the drill; this one is staying put for a long time. Sans tonearm:



It's a non-standard non-purist approach but nothing that I couldn't change adding an analog phono stage. It's basically a vinyl ripping digital RIAA setup that can be simultaneously monitored and recorded in real-time at up to 192kHz/32bit float or fixed (and dithered if deemed necessary as the Lynx driver is of course 24bit). I plan to listen/record at 192kHz and archive at 96kHz.

There is a link below to an interesting white paper, and some other bonuses imo are that Grados can use the extra gain when needed (I could do 70db easily), access to VERY high quality gain via mic preamps (I think the AEA is JFET), and it's rather fun. I could add a "normal" stage sometime. I'd like to get you all some needle drops sometime too.

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Equipment

Nitty Gritty RCM Mini-Pro
Clearaudio Innovation Compact AMG Wood 70mm
MG1 Airbearing Tonearm (wired via XLR to AEA pre)
Grado Reference1 (Statement .5mv)
AEA Big Ribbon microphone preamp (flat gain) 35K input impedance
Antelope OCX
Mytek 192 ADC (clocked to OCX)
Lynx AES16-E (clocked to OCX)


Recording software: Wavelab 6, Samplitude 10
Noise reduction: Wavelab 6 & iZotope RX
Dither: Ozone 4 Mbit+
Word Clocks via BNC
Digital bit stream via AES/EBU
Cables: Cardas Neutral ref. or YACCO Lucky 7 XLR w/ Vampires (AEA>Mytek)//Silver litz (tonearm)//Xhadow XLR (digital AES/EBU)


Recording/Monitoring Chain

RCM ( #9 Stylus Cleaner>Zerodust) > TT (speed check w/ Digistrobe) > Grado Ref. Statement> AEA pre> Mytek 192 ADC (AES) > Lynx AES16E (AES) > Mini-ITX 80w PicoPSU 45wAMD Windows 7 x64> Wavelab 6 32bit-float custom-made Digital RIAA VST plugin for 96 or 192kHz AND/OR Samplitude > Zodiac+ DAC

Comments

Post-processing workflow: Wavelab 6 error detection markers, open file in iZotope RX Advanced remove clicks manually, open in Wavelab 6 and apply Digital RIAA VST, Mbit+ dither to 24bit/96kHz > individual FLAC files.
No silence has been removed.

More info on digital riaa implementation.

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nooshinjohn

Ok... I believe you now.:p;)


That is one incredible SEXY beast!:D I think I would ask her to marry me if she were still single.;):cool:

doctorcilantro

John - you have no idea how dirty she talks after my wife goes to bed. :eek:

I was expecting the frosted acrylic platter but the importer deemed the Delrin platter far superior and won't even waste time importing it.

nooshinjohn

doctorcilantro wrote: »

John - you have no idea how dirty she talks after my wife goes to bed. :eek:

Then she's cheating on you because she's talkin' dirty to me on the internet right now!:D


I would love to hear it one of these days.

doctor r

That's a beautiful table. Any good doctor needs a pair of hemostats for the delicate handling of phono clips. I found a very small fine pair at the flea market years ago that now live in my vinyl first aid kit.

doctorcilantro

Doctor R wrote: »

That's a beautiful table. Any good doctor needs a pair of hemostats for the delicate handling of phono clips. I found a very small fine pair at the flea market years ago that now live in my vinyl first aid kit.

Thanks for the kind words.

I need to dig up some tools; know I have tweezers. I had needle nose pliers and the clips are so tight, I couldn't believe it. I almost torqued the clip right off the wire.

doctorcilantro

Added more pics. anyone is welcome any time you are in the neighborhood. I needed the blu-tack because that arm-lift is not stock and my counterweight was maxed out. There is also a damping trough I may mess around with but I have to trade some 60 weight for 30 with someone first.

Now what will be the 1st spin?

I have a lot of sealed vinyl.

hearingimpared

Doc that is one absolutely beautiful table. I'm committing the sin of coveting!!! BTW IMHO Delrin, either solid or a composite of Delrin/aluminum/lead perhaps even brass is the only way to go for a platter. In the composite I spoke of above the Delrin would be on the record side of the platter due to its almost perfect impedance match to a vinyl record and its superior damping abilities. I have never seen such a large hunk of Delrin used as a platter . . . I WANT ONE!!!

When I designed my clamp I used all Delrin for its incredible damping abilities and mechanical impedance match with a vinyl record. I used a locking brass collet to secure and adjust the down pressure of the clamp because like Delrin, brass is also a great damping material plus is a great mechanical impedance match and it is a better way to stop the stainless steel spindle from ringing. In one of my prototypes I used a stainless steel locking collet and when playing records it sounded like ma hitting the dinner time triangle to call everyone in for dinner.:D

One thing I'd like to bring to your attention is that my SME Series V tonearm came with silver litz tonearm wires which were clipped to the four posts on the cartridge and the other end clipped to the four posts just at the rear of the headshell. Although I always loved the sound of the SME V I always noticed something "wasn't quite right" but could never put my finger on it. One day while installing a ZYX Airy 3 SB cartridge, I was connecting the little silver litz wires with a pair of tweezers and hemostats. In order to focus my reading glasses in to see what I was doing I had to lean the chair back to see when the rear leg of the chair broke under my fat **** and I still had a grip on the posts in the tonearm and ripped the wire right out right out of the tonearm.

I had Brit Audio install new Cardas tonearm wires that went from the five pin socket at the base of the tonearm all the way to the cartridge. I burned the wires in using a tuner connected to the four wires for about two weeks.

When I finally went to listen to my reference LPs that "not quite right" sound was gone. It seems the silver litz wire was causing, and this is hard to describe, an etching, biting, somewhat bright sound which when replaced with the Cardas tonearm wire was gone.

doctorcilantro

hearingimpared wrote: »

Doc that is one absolutely beautiful table. I'm committing the sin of coveting!!! BTW IMHO Delrin, either solid or a composite of Delrin/aluminum/lead perhaps even brass is the only way to go for a platter. In the composite I spoke of above the Delrin would be on the record side of the platter due to its almost perfect impedance match to a vinyl record and its superior damping abilities. I have never seen such a large hunk of Delrin used as a platter . . . I WANT ONE!!!

When I designed my clamp I used all Delrin for its incredible damping abilities and mechanical impedance match with a vinyl record. I used a locking brass collet to secure and adjust the down pressure of the clamp because like Delrin, brass is also a great damping material plus is a great mechanical impedance match and it is a better way to stop the stainless steel spindle from ringing. In one of my prototypes I used a stainless steel locking collet and when playing records it sounded like ma hitting the dinner time triangle to call everyone in for dinner.:D

One thing I'd like to bring to your attention is that my SME Series V tonearm came with silver litz tonearm wires which were clipped to the four posts on the cartridge and the other end clipped to the four posts just at the rear of the headshell. Although I always loved the sound of the SME V I always noticed something "wasn't quite right" but could never put my finger on it. One day while installing a ZYX Airy 3 SB cartridge, I was connecting the little silver litz wires with a pair of tweezers and hemostats. In order to focus my reading glasses in to see what I was doing I had to lean the chair back to see when the rear leg of the chair broke under my fat **** and I still had a grip on the posts in the tonearm and ripped the wire right out right out of the tonearm.

I had Brit Audio install new Cardas tonearm wires that went from the five pin socket at the base of the tonearm all the way to the cartridge. I burned the wires in using a tuner connected to the four wires for about two weeks.

When I finally went to listen to my reference LPs that "not quite right" sound was gone. It seems the silver litz wire was causing, and this is hard to describe, an etching, biting, somewhat bright sound which when replaced with the Cardas tonearm wire was gone.

I'm hoping this litz will work well as it is made of 3 solid strands of very thin silver. I have two other sets of copper litz here and an extra tonearm too.

My only worry is the air handler in the next room could send vibrations through the wall to my shelf, but I could do some testing with test records and see if rumble shows up on the frequency graphs.

The Delrin is serious stuff and this also has the CMB bearing, and it has an optical speed controller built in. I let it run for 1 hour last night and it was still at 33.3, as expected. It has trim controls for 33, 45, and 78 too. I plan on mounting a 78 cart on the extra arm for fun.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

I'm hoping this litz will work well as it is made of 3 solid strands of very thin silver. I have two other sets of copper litz here and an extra tonearm too.

My only worry is the air handler in the next room could send vibrations through the wall to my shelf, but I could do some testing with test records and see if rumble shows up on the frequency graphs.

The Delrin is serious stuff and this also has the CMB bearing, and it has an optical speed controller built in. I let it run for 1 hour last night and it was still at 33.3, as expected. It has trim controls for 33, 45, and 78 too. I plan on mounting a 78 cart on the extra arm for fun.

IIRC SOTA put out a damping gizmo to dampen the vibrations from going up the air tube and getting to the turntable. I believe Goldmund has something like it too. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. BAck in the '80s I heard both a SOTA table I owned a Goldmund table with vacuum hold down systems and heard the damping material on and off the rig and with it on, it made quite a bit of improvement.

doctorcilantro

hearingimpared wrote: »

IIRC SOTA put out a damping gizmo to dampen the vibrations from going up the air tube and getting to the turntable. I believe Goldmund has something like it too. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. BAck in the '80s I heard both a SOTA table I owned a Goldmund table with vacuum hold down systems and heard the damping material on and off the rig and with it on, it made quite a bit of improvement.

Thanks for reminding me as I have been wanting to try damping the air tube; it's rather wide diameter and very long and I have a ballast tank too so hopefully all these attributes would work to mitigate any vibration. The base of the tonearm is very solid and the table's armboard seems well-isolated too.



Maybe some electricians tape or blu-tack for starters?

I put a slit in the old tonearm wire's strain relief so I could run this litz wire to an achor point since it runs direct to the preamp and not in through the tonearm base like the stock version.



I also may smooth out the blu-tack on the counterweight to more evenly distribute the mass.

doctorcilantro

Funny story, in hindsight of course. I remember when I tore off a stylus dusting; couldn't believe I had gotten that close to it; really dumb.

I ended up with a ClearAudio Twistr clamp. Looks to be a good design and an essential tool. I also picked up the Mapleshade accessories, their zerostat and their grounded carbon fibre brush.

Gotta get thise clips on!!!

hearingimpared wrote: »

Doc that is one absolutely beautiful table. I'm committing the sin of coveting!!! BTW IMHO Delrin, either solid or a composite of Delrin/aluminum/lead perhaps even brass is the only way to go for a platter. In the composite I spoke of above the Delrin would be on the record side of the platter due to its almost perfect impedance match to a vinyl record and its superior damping abilities. I have never seen such a large hunk of Delrin used as a platter . . . I WANT ONE!!!

When I designed my clamp I used all Delrin for its incredible damping abilities and mechanical impedance match with a vinyl record. I used a locking brass collet to secure and adjust the down pressure of the clamp because like Delrin, brass is also a great damping material plus is a great mechanical impedance match and it is a better way to stop the stainless steel spindle from ringing. In one of my prototypes I used a stainless steel locking collet and when playing records it sounded like ma hitting the dinner time triangle to call everyone in for dinner.:D

One thing I'd like to bring to your attention is that my SME Series V tonearm came with silver litz tonearm wires which were clipped to the four posts on the cartridge and the other end clipped to the four posts just at the rear of the headshell. Although I always loved the sound of the SME V I always noticed something "wasn't quite right" but could never put my finger on it. One day while installing a ZYX Airy 3 SB cartridge, I was connecting the little silver litz wires with a pair of tweezers and hemostats. In order to focus my reading glasses in to see what I was doing I had to lean the chair back to see when the rear leg of the chair broke under my fat **** and I still had a grip on the posts in the tonearm and ripped the wire right out right out of the tonearm.

I had Brit Audio install new Cardas tonearm wires that went from the five pin socket at the base of the tonearm all the way to the cartridge. I burned the wires in using a tuner connected to the four wires for about two weeks.

When I finally went to listen to my reference LPs that "not quite right" sound was gone. It seems the silver litz wire was causing, and this is hard to describe, an etching, biting, somewhat bright sound which when replaced with the Cardas tonearm wire was gone.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

I ended up with a ClearAudio Twister clamp. Looks to be a good design and an essential tool. I also picked up the Mapleshade accessories, their zerostat and their grounded carbon fibre brush.

Gotta get thise clips on!!!

I always recommend that clamp as it is the closest thing to my clamp. As a matter of fact they stole my colet design. You may want try various thickness round shims under the record before applying the clamp. It will help increase the downforce of the base of the clamp thus having the record make intimate contact with the platter from the label out to the lead in groove.

Here's a picture of my clamp and the shims I use.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=554640&postcount=10

doctorcilantro

hearingimpared wrote: »

I always recommend that clamp as it is the closest thing to my clamp. As a matter of fact they stole my colet design. You may want try various thickness round shims under the record before applying the clamp. It will help increase the downforce of the base of the clamp thus having the record make intimate contact with the platter from the label out to the lead in groove.

Here's a picture of my clamp and the shims I use.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=554640&postcount=10

Excellent. I know what you mean about how the shims work. I used to own a VPI and I think it came with one and it definitely works to lift the center and allow the clamp to couple the vinyl flatter.

I used to take a crap record and watch how various tension on the clamp would change the level of the vinyl surface; you could make the vinyl off-plane even though the platter was perfectly level.

No royalties from ClearAudio eh? It is a good design.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

Excellent. I know what you mean about how the shims work. I used to own a VPI and I think it came with one and it definitely works to lift the center and allow the clamp to couple the vinyl flatter.

I used to take a crap record and watch how various tension on the clamp would change the level of the vinyl surface; you could make the vinyl off-plane even though the platter was perfectly level.

No royalties from ClearAudio eh? It is a good design.

The VPI came with one shim made of hard rubber. The shims I made had three different thicknesses and were made of Delrin.

Lost the patent cause it was too expensive so I can only prove intellectual property.

Aside from materials and method more or all that I've seen reflex clamp have a flat protrusion around the perimeter of the base which when you really need a good type grip on the spindle because of that design and the rubber shim it would cause the record to dish.

My clamp has a rounded nib with cause maximum down pressure on a thin line that kind of sinks into the label thus keeping it from dishing, plus the different sized Delrin shims allow to place different thickness and weights of records and the shim have a rounded edge that makes contact with the LP.

vc69

Jon, that is one crazy cool setup. Very nice.

doctorcilantro

The shims sound great. What about mats? I have never used one really; I figure they would include one with a table of this caliber if it needed one.

Thanks for the comments vc69. Busy testing tubes so the table lies dormant; maybe this weekend.

hearingimpared wrote: »

The VPI came with one shim made of hard rubber. The shims I made had three different thicknesses and were made of Delrin.

Lost the patent cause it was too expensive so I can only prove intellectual property.

Aside from materials and method more or all that I've seen reflex clamp have a flat protrusion around the perimeter of the base which when you really need a good type grip on the spindle because of that design and the rubber shim it would cause the record to dish.

My clamp has a rounded nib with cause maximum down pressure on a thin line that kind of sinks into the label thus keeping it from dishing, plus the different sized Delrin shims allow to place different thickness and weights of records and the shim have a rounded edge that makes contact with the LP.

doctorcilantro

Awaiting a DAC replacement too and supposedly it's due here tomorrow; I wasn't expecting it until next week.

Yes, I need a DAC to play my vinyl..... :eek:

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

The shims sound great. What about mats? I have never used one really; I figure they would include one with a table of this caliber if it needed one.

NO, NO, NO mat Doc!!! The whole purpose of having a Delrin platter is so you can clamp the record directly to it and what happens is the stylus (all that energy and airborne vibration) sees, instead of a thin record a big block of vinyl the thickness of your platter.

What happens when you firmly couple the record to the Delrin platter is the energy put out by the stylus is completely dampened by the platter. If you didn't have it firmly coupled to the platter the energy would radiate out to the spindle and bounce back to the stylus making lot of noise. The same thing with airborne vibrations. Instead of them radiating all over the record and then to the stylus, it is killed by the Delrin platter.

doctorcilantro

hearingimpared wrote: »

NO, NO, NO mat Doc!!! The whole purpose of having a Delrin platter is so you can clamp the record directly to it and what happens is the stylus (all that energy and airborne vibration) sees, instead of a thin record a big block of vinyl the thickness of your platter.

What happens when you firmly couple the record to the Delrin platter is the energy put out by the stylus is completely dampened by the platter. If you didn't have it firmly coupled to the platter the energy would radiate out to the spindle and bounce back to the stylus making lot of noise. The same thing with airborne vibrations. Instead of them radiating all over the record and then to the stylus, it is killed by the Delrin platter.

I like your style dude.

hearingimpared

I wish I had an extra of my clamp for you. If there was ever a turntable and platter that could benefit from it, it is yours. The Clearaudio will do okay, just try and get some various thickness shims for it.

BTW notice the base of the Clearaudio Twister clamp is solid delrin.

doctorcilantro

Well, if anyone has one I could offer tubes and/or this Twistr clamp; would love to try it.

doctorcilantro

Here's a little bit about the mic preamp I am using; I think it's just about perfect for this unique application; it has 35K input impedance and many have claimed that trying something a bit lower than 47K to remove some harshness due to ringing at high frequencies - maybe this just affects the phono preamp usually but hopefully the wide bandwidth of the AEA will really be of benefit:

AEA's TRP has the quick, quiet gain you need for digital recording of ribbon, moving coil and tube mics. The Ribbon Pre has the speed needed for high resolution 192 kHz recording. With 300 kHz of bandwidth and DC coupled, Low-Energy-Storage (LES) circuit topology this preamp delivers outstanding dynamic response and bandwidth, and recovers instantly from overloads. TRPs have enough gain to let you hear how noisy the universe really is, but within the limits of physics, provide quiet gain. The DC coupled mic inputs let you hear all the dynamics, subwoofer bass and fast transients that your ribbon and tube mics can deliver. This discrete front end and integrated circuit JFET design combines the quiet gain of solid state with an openness reminiscent of tubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-FALJtFodo

miner

Doc,
Try using a round toothpick to open up your clips. They are gentle and won't damage the metal.

hearingimpared

doctorcilantro wrote: »

Well, if anyone has one I could offer tubes and/or this Twistr clamp; would love to try it.

Doc, they show up from time to time here on the forum! Be patient one may pop up soon.

I'm currently in the beginning stages of getting together with a couple of other Polkies who have access to or friends that own machine shops in hopes of getting 25 more made. It may take awhile but I am hoping it will come through.

nedh84

If you get some made lemme know. Maybe I'll jump on the bandwagon

doctorcilantro

It's alive!

I usually do azimuth by eye and ear and start by using a small level on top of the cart after leveling the airbearing etc. just to get a benchmark.

Well, this Grado Ref1 has the genrerators' housing misaligned relative to the plane which is the top of the cart. It's quite obvious, and my cart upon first glance looks grossly off, but if you look at the housing and stylus, those are now perpendicular/parallel to the LP.

Maybe I should email Grado?

I was going to put on the Ultimate Test Record to record the unmodulated grooves and the 1kHz track for my audio engineer buddy (to compare to my last table), but I came across a Nora Jones record and thought it would be more prudent (indulgent?) to make sure the azimuth was okay.

It sounds divine. I had it monitoring at 32bit float 192kHz with Powr3 dither applied and listened on some DX1000 headphones out of the Zodiac+ DAC.

Sound like vinyl (1,0,1,0,0,1) to me!!