LSi-15 partial meltdown??

2

Comments

  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    edited August 2010
    Resistor issue with the LSi15 (and carver by chance)

    Yep, that was me, I fried them real good... I later bought a set that had been modded by our Ben and they were awesome!! I later sold them , but I still have the original set, hardly ever hook them up though since I got the 1.2TL's. They do sound good though!!
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited August 2010
    Maximus666,

    No, you misunderstood my point. I didn't say that it wasn't rated at 700wpc. I said that I doubted it was putting that out at the time. Hell, at normal listening level's you're only using a few wpc. It's the transients that will require larger amounts of power.
    So definitely something amiss there.
    You'll get argument from me on that one.
    I like to hedge my bets with larger guage copper (fine) stranded, however, rather than spend hundreds of dollars on cable with special physics.

    Increasing the gauge of chassis wire doesn't guarantee a positive result and in fact, can lead to a negative result.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited August 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    Assuming it is the one in the tweeter circuit - it is a 2ohm - 5 watt resistor.

    I would replace it with a 2ohm - 12watt mills resistor. (you can get them a bunch of places including sonicraft and parts express)

    Just so you know - there are 3 - 2ohm resistors (1 for the tweeter and 1 for each mid-woofer) and 1 - 3.5 ohm resistor for the 8" woofer per speaker. While you are in there, you might as well replace them all - after all, their cheap.....

    Michael

    Ah, thank you Michael. Excellent advice as well.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited August 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Maximus666,

    No, you misunderstood my point. I didn't say that it wasn't rated at 700wpc. I said that I doubted it was putting that out at the time. Hell, at normal listening level's you're only using a few wpc. It's the transients that will require larger amounts of power.

    Hard Rock at high volume... I had to be pushing no less than 450 to 500 constantly. I had it cranked WAY up while I was working in the garage.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited August 2010
    Remember - the speaker is only rated for 350watts continuous. It can take WAY MORE than that (if its clean) on peaks - but I would not recommend exceeding the continuous rating for more than a few seconds.

    Be happy the damage (if indeed there really was any) was as minimal as it appears. If you want loud garage speakers - Cerwin Vega or Klipsh will work well. Keep listening at those volumes and you will not be able to hear the difference between those and Polk anyway.....

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited August 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    May be true if there are transistors in the circuit, but in these crossovers, all there is, is resistors, caps and coils. The 5 watt resistor (specifically in the tweeter) seems to be the weak link. I have not heard of anyone doing an upgrade (or mod) to the resistors in a crossover that did not use the same values of a higher wattage.

    In almost all cases - it seems to be the 12 watt mills is the weapon of choice.

    To each their own though.

    Michael
    I agree with you Xo are mainly resistors, caps and coils and they are not as sentive as transistors but values are decide by engineers for a reason as they affect each other. Now, as an example wouldn't you prefer replacing a cheap ceramic or a tweeter? You also have a valid point about weakess link (meaning under evaluation during engineering process). Was there any mod recommendated by Polk in reference the increased in wattage? Going from 5 watts to 12 watts is rather a drasting change IMHO???

    Cheers!
    TK
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited August 2010
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    Was there any mod recommendated by Polk in reference the increased in wattage? Going from 5 watts to 12 watts is rather a drasting change IMHO???

    Not by Polk, but when I called SonicCraft to ask about the crossover upgrade, they recommended the 12 watt resistor (Mills does also make a 5 watt one) as they felt it sounded better in a crossover circuit. Also when looking at crossover upgrades here on Club Polk - 12 watt mills seems to be the overwhelming choice for resistor swaps.

    That is what I and others have used with good sucess. Not saying you are incorrect, just that was why I chose to use 12 watt mills in my crossover upgrades. I know I have been happy with the sound, thats for sure.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited August 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    Remember - the speaker is only rated for 350watts continuous. It can take WAY MORE than that (if its clean) on peaks - but I would not recommend exceeding the continuous rating for more than a few seconds.

    Be happy the damage (if indeed there really was any) was as minimal as it appears. If you want loud garage speakers - Cerwin Vega or Klipsh will work well. Keep listening at those volumes and you will not be able to hear the difference between those and Polk anyway.....

    Michael
    Yep, you might not need thoses speakers any longer and simply listen to your favorite music through vibration :D
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited August 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    Not by Polk, but when I called SonicCraft to ask about the crossover upgrade, they recommended the 12 watt resistor (Mills does also make a 5 watt one) as they felt it sounded better in a crossover circuit. Also when looking at crossover upgrades here on Club Polk - 12 watt mills seems to be the overwhelming choice for resistor swaps.

    That is what I and others have used with good sucess. Not saying you are incorrect, just that was why I chose to use 12 watt mills in my crossover upgrades. I know I have been happy with the sound, thats for sure.

    Michael
    Thanks for the answer and explanations, no right or wrong, just sharing opinions but one thing for sure nothing beats hands on experience which you do have. Thanks again...
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited August 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    Keep listening at those volumes and you will not be able to hear the difference between those and Polk anyway.....

    Michael


    LOL....

    My speakers are in my living room and I was working in the garage, about 60 feet and three walls away. My hearing was never in danger.:p I will be working on a garage rig for future use. I have a nice BeoCenter that will be hung on the wall and a cd player, but I have not taken the time to set them up.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited August 2010
    The use of a 12 watt in place of the 5 watt is not going to affect any other part of the crossover in a negative way. It will allow for higher power handling, which is a good thing in the case of the LSi's as it seems the 5 watt value is a little too low for folks driving them with high powered amps.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2010
    Resistors, higher wattage is ok, Capacitors, higher voltage is ok also. Just don't ever go lower.

    I've seen a few cases of polyfill melting to crossover boards. Try pushing it away from the crossover to give it some room to breath.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited August 2010
    Kim wrote: »
    Nooshinjohn,
    Send the crossovers to us here in Baltimore and address them to my attention along with the serial numbers of both speakers and I will send you replacement crossovers at no charge.


    Thanks,
    Kim


    Thanks Kim... but these girls are out of warranty by along shot... and I have no doubt the cause of their needing to be fixed is that they were being abused. If the offer still stands, they will be on the way.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited August 2010
    Kim wrote: »
    My offer still stands. I will like to see how bad the meltdown actually was.
    I want to pass these on to the guys in engineering and Q/A.
    Do you need our address in Baltimore?
    Send me an email with your information and serial numbers to: KJasper@polkaudio.com.

    Thanks Kim... I sent you a PM asking for the address.


    POLK CS IS THE BEST!!!:D:D
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited August 2010
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Thanks Kim... I sent you a PM asking for the address.


    POLK CS IS THE BEST!!!:D:D

    This is why I will ALWAYS have Polk speakers!!! CS like this is just first rate.

    Polk Audio ROCKS!!!:)
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Slinger182
    Slinger182 Posts: 512
    edited August 2010
    Wow that's just awesome.
    Panny 55-st30 plasma
    Pioneer vsx-1121
    Parasound 2100 pre
    b&k tx4430 amp
    Oppo bdp-83
    Monster HTS 3500
    polk TSi500s Vr3 Fortress modded
    polk CS20 center channel Vr3 Castle modded
    polk Owm 3 surrounds
    polk PSW505
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited August 2010
    Kim wrote: »
    My offer still stands. I will like to see how bad the meltdown actually was.
    I want to pass these on to the guys in engineering and Q/A.    Do you need our address in Baltimore?
    Send me an email with your information and serial numbers to: KJasper@polkaudio.com.
    Outstanding! Not only providing for the replacement but taking action to problem solving, OUTSTANDING !!!!
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited August 2010
    I just got an email from Kim... he has the replacements shipping today!...

    I have for some time been contemplating Maggies in my rig. I will be sticking with Polk and wait and see what the new LSi's are all about. If they can image like the LSi's and present the soundstage and authority of my SDA's, I will take a pair.(or two):D
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    edited August 2010
    Kim's the man...!
    Post a photo of your new 'stang?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited August 2010
    John, if it was louder than the time i heard your LSi15s, you've officially gone off the deep end. Just sayin'. :p
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited August 2010
    concealer404 wrote: »
    ...you've officially gone off the deep end. Just sayin'. :p


    Right behind ya Bro!!!:D;)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited August 2010
    It IS way nicer down here, i'll tell you that much.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited August 2010
    Kenneth Swauger wrote: »
    Kim's the man...!
    Post a photo of your new 'stang?
    Then he must have been under your wings and you trained him well ;)

    Afterall, you left some big shoes to be filled!!!
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dvran
    dvran Posts: 280
    edited August 2010
    It doesn't take much to completely damage electronics since they have such a low tolerance for temperature changes. I'd the think LSi's would shut down before damage was done.
    ~Dan

    Projector: Epson 705HD on 106" DaLite
    TV: Samsung 50" Plasma PN50B550
    Receiver: Onkyo 607
    Fronts: Polk 1000i
    Center: Polk Csi40
    Rears: Polk Fxi30
    Sub: Velodyne Minivee 10
    PS3 and Xbox
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited August 2010
    I assumed that too. Funny thing now is that my amp is running hotter than normal now with my SDA's back in the loop. I wonder if something got cooked there too.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited August 2010
    dvran wrote: »
    It doesn't take much to completely damage electronics since they have such a low tolerance for temperature changes. I'd the think LSi's would shut down before damage was done.

    Most speakers, being passive, only shutdown when they break.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited August 2010
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    . . . wonder if something got cooked there too.

    Carver_Sunfire_amp.JPG
    17944433_f4ec43ca3a.jpg
    Nooooo.jpg&t=1
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cincycat13
    cincycat13 Posts: 882
    edited August 2010
    If you need a second opinion on that amp...send it to me for a few years and I'll let you know if I think there is any damage:)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited August 2010
    cincycat13 wrote: »
    If you need a second opinion on that amp...send it to me for a few years and I'll let you know if I think there is any damage:)

    Ummmm yeah... that's my first choice.:D:D;)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited August 2010
    This pic is from Ben's LSi15 XO mod-(thread here).

    Note the burned resistor:
    DSCN1168.jpg?t=1219537097
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter