Hot Amps

rubin

Is it true or myth that hotter running power amps also sound "warmer"?

concealer404

Myth.


BUSTED.

ShinAce

All other things being equal, a hotter amp is an amp that either:
A) has problems radiating heat
has a higher idle current

Higher idle current for two identical amps gives the higher idle current(or quiescent current, or bias) typically, lower distortion.

So it is derived from truth. In itself, useless.

Does having more horsepower equal faster car? Too many other factors to consider.

edit:
C) an amp set to higher volume

nooshinjohn

ShinAce wrote: »

All other things being equal, a hotter amp is an amp that either:
A) has problems radiating heat
has a higher idle current

Higher idle current for two identical amps gives the higher idle current(or quiescent current, or bias) typically, lower distortion.

So it is derived from truth. In itself, useless.

Does having more horsepower equal faster car? Too many other factors to consider.

edit:
C) an amp set to higher volume

A hotter amp could also be stolen.:p

I have never seen a cool running tube amp, and they all have been on teh warm side to my ear when compared to solid state designs.

heiney9

rubin wrote: »

Is it true or myth that hotter running power amps also sound "warmer"?

Mostly, yes. Generally a hotter running amp means it's designed to run class A operation. There are lots of other design variables but class A operation and especially pure single ended class A (very expensive) generally has the characteristics of warmer sounding gear.

This is really all dependent on the design, materials, and quality of workmanship and parts. Single ended class A amps have primarily a 2nd order harmonic distortion which is what many refer to as a "warmer" sound.

H9

heiney9

concealer404 wrote: »

Myth.


BUSTED.

No it's not a myth, but more needs to be known about what the OP is asking.

concealer404

heiney9 wrote: »

No it's not a myth, but more needs to be known about what the OP is asking.

I should clarify that there may be a grain of truth somewhere in there.... but as always, there's exceptions, and an amp running hot is likely not the REASON for the warmth.

Am i getting warm yet? (Excuse the pun )

Fongolio

My Carver TFM-45 runs very cool and yet is very warm sounding. Go figure.

rubin

heiney9 wrote: »

No it's not a myth, but more needs to be known about what the OP is asking.

OK, class A runs HOT and are considered the better sounding solid state designs. How about the more common class A/B? MY nad amps (a/b) sound pretty "laid back", Are ab designs comparable to pure class A?

mhardy6647

I was wondering about radioactivity.

concealer404

Just for more anecdotal "evidence," when i had cstmar01's Adcom GFA-5802 here, it cut down my heating bills by at least $300/month.

It wasn't as warm sounding as my Oinker M5150, and the Oinker stays cool to the touch. (Of course, that sounds weird, since Oinkers are known to run hot, but mine doesn't.)



Footnote: Also worth mentioning that i'm not entirely convinced that my Oinker is un-tampered with.

WilliamM2

A hotter running amp could also be a poor inefficient design.

sucks2beme

The output design sets the sound. An example is B&K st202 and other MOSFET amps sound warm.

mhardy6647

WilliamM2 wrote: »

A hotter running amp could also be a poor inefficient design.

Class A runs its output devices biased "on" for the full cycle of a waveform - the devices dissipate essentially full power all the time. Horrifically inefficient but not a "poor" design in respect to other performance parameters. Class B is much more efficient... but even folks who like push-pull amps (and I am not... heh, heh... biased against them) don't want to listen to all Class B, all the time. Thus the preponderance of Class AB amps.

EDIT: By the way, a good amplifier should sound like nothing (and they do).

megasat16

rubin wrote: »

OK, class A runs HOT and are considered the better sounding solid state designs. How about the more common class A/B? MY nad amps (a/b) sound pretty "laid back", Are ab designs comparable to pure class A?

Some well designed Class AB amps are believed to be sounds as good as Class A. There is no definite theory to prove what Class A (pure Class a or any other kind of Class A) is better than well made Class AB amp. This Class A or AB debate existed in history longer and runs deeper than most cable threads. Having said that, Pure Class A is ideal listening amp for me.

I like HOT Girls and HOT amp. It's nothing wrong with Hotness and inefficiency if you know what I mean.

F1nut

If it's not running hot, it isn't worth squat.

nooshinjohn

F1nut wrote: »

If it's not running hot, it isn't worth squat.

What about Sunfire???


Wait! Don't answer that one.;)

heiney9

concealer404 wrote: »

I should clarify that there may be a grain of truth somewhere in there.... but as always, there's exceptions, and an amp running hot is likely not the REASON for the warmth.

Am i getting warm yet? (Excuse the pun )

You have no idea what you are talking about. Get some more experience in this hobby.

rubin wrote: »

OK, class A runs HOT and are considered the better sounding solid state designs. How about the more common class A/B? MY nad amps (a/b) sound pretty "laid back", Are ab designs comparable to pure class A?

Not really, but there are some great class a/b designs out there.

H9

rubin

F1nut wrote: »

If it's not running hot, it isn't worth squat.

end of story:D

rubin

WilliamM2 wrote: »

A hotter running amp could also be a poor inefficient design.

possibly.

heiney9

WilliamM2 wrote: »

A hotter running amp could also be a poor inefficient design.

Inefficient, yes. Poor design, think again. Nice try though.

heiney9

megasat16 wrote: »

Some well designed Class AB amps are believed to be sounds as good as Class A. There is no definite theory to prove what Class A (pure Class a or any other kind of Class A) is better than well made Class AB amp. This Class A or AB debate existed in history longer and runs deeper than most cable threads. Having said that, Pure Class A is ideal listening amp for me.

I like HOT Girls and HOT amp. It's nothing wrong with Hotness and inefficiency if you know what I mean.

Not really, they can come close but not the whole enchilada. Same as no solid state amp can replicate tubes. Some can have a few characteristics but again, not the whole enchilada.

H9

megasat16

heiney9 wrote: »

Not really, they can come close but not the whole enchilada. Same as no solid state amp can replicate tubes. Some can have a few characteristics but again, not the whole enchilada.

H9

May be not the whole package but who knows. It's hard to say any Class A amp is designed and manufactured to sound better than any Class AB amp. There are such things as designer mistake and quality control and user ears. This is worse than ABX and DABX tests ever could prove.

That's why this debate has been down in history and we don't need to repeat it here.

We could do splitting hairs or counting beans or something?

mhardy6647

No crossover distortion in Class A. Never had it, never will.

Ricardo

Mi X250 gets pretty hot, but it doesn't sound. All the sound comes from the speakers. Go figure.

mhardy6647

Ricardo wrote: »

Mi X250 gets pretty hot, but it doesn't sound. All the sound comes from the speakers. Go figure.

If you put dummy loads on the outputs of many vacuum tube amp, play some music and turn the gain up high, you can sometimes hear the output transformer laminations "sing"...

TNRabbit

This thread didn't need to go past post #2.

heiney9

TNRabbit wrote: »

This thread didn't need to go past post #2.

Wrong again.............thanks for playing.

concealer404

Alright, can someone explain why an amp running hot makes it warmer sounding before i go and smother my amp in a towel to get a warmer sound?

heiney9 wrote: »

You have no idea what you are talking about. Get some more experience in this hobby.
H9

What i was saying was that the amp wouldn't sound warm BECAUSE it was hot, but rather the construction/function of the amp that make it warm sounding may make it run hotter.

So you're saying that that's incorrect. So... if i can get my amp to run hotter, i should hear more of that warmer sound that i adore so much. I'm not going to throw that idea right out the window just yet, but i would appreciate an explanation as to why that's the case.

heiney9

You're talking in circles. And re-read the thread it has been explained already. Nobody said anything about making your amp run hotter by smothering it. That's not how I read the OP's question/remark. And that suggestion is just simply absurd.

Here's an article about running gain devices (those silicon thingy's[or tubes too] in audio gear that make sound) in the "sweet spot", when you do and it's part of the design a hotter running amp will sound "warmer, sweeter" whatever adjective one can come up with to describe that effortless, smooth, non-edgy, euphoric sound.

http://www.passlabs.com/pdfs/articles/sweet_spot.pdf

concealer404

Got it. I simply misinterpreted the whole thread, then. I can definitely understand that the characteristics that make a warm sounding amp can also result in more heat.

Carry on.