Opinions for reaching the "next level"

SCompRacer · July 2010

heiney9 wrote: »

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86154&highlight=room+treatments

Here's what was done to my brother's front room.

Thanks for posting the link that I meant to post.

cstmar01 wrote: »

are those DIY treatments or did you purchase them?

They are from GIK Acoustic. In the corners, stacked Tri-Traps, on the wall three 244 panels. Fabric is the optional Guilford Of Maine. There are 48 choices to match any decor.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/

reeltrouble1 · July 2010

inspiredsports wrote: »

I must be thick and not getting this, but are you also suggesting passive treatments don't work, and that I need to pile on more electronics to remove sounds that I've used electronics to generate ?????

holy moly!!!!!!!

your thinking about things. cool, I use room treatments....good ones. everything matters, when your satisfied enjoy, in the meantime have fun.

RT1

Ricardo · July 2010

inspiredsports wrote: »

Small world! A good friend of mine just took a new job in Cincy and is moving his family to Mason before school starts. If he ropes me in to helping him move I will PM you.

Cool. Just don't count with me to help carrying stuff

Hawkeye · July 2010

I've recommended RealTraps in the past as a good primer on the benefits of trapping a room. Quite a few spots there dig deep into the who, what and why. Ethan offers some tones to check your room and he's more than happy to discuss all aspects of trapping on the phone. They can be a bit pricey, but much cheaper in the long run when one adds up the cost of rolling pieces in every few months looking for "the sound".

There are several ways to skin a cat. From jm1 doing a fairly all out gig to putting fiscus trees in the corners. There is no synergy issues either with traps. They/it will work with ANY piece of gear you may have. You may have to add or subtract pieces, but once you get the room stable and as flat as possible, you'll really see how good your gear is.

If I had the structural ability to build my trapping into the walls and ceiling to make them invisible, I would. My room won't support a modification like that due to layout so I've had to compromise, but the compromise has brought my gear to a new level. There is more I can get out of it if I could but can't right now.

Gordon

inspiredsports · July 2010

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

holy moly!!!!!!!

your thinking about things. cool, I use room treatments....good ones. everything matters, when your satisfied enjoy, in the meantime have fun.

RT1

That's where I wrote I must be thick. . .

When you wrote, "I would get some electrostats, room treatments. . . ", I guess I took electrostats to mean something "electronic".

Is that a brand name that you can give me a link to, or a general classification of treatment?

. . . Also, please don't misunderstand the part where I covered vinyl tables with fabric as a solution, I was just testing the theory before I spend money for a brand name piece if fabricating is above my pay grade. Bass traps look complicated enough that I will buy, flat panels I may consider building but need to learn more. Adding powered/active technology for me, is out

mhardy6647 · July 2010

"electrostats" in this context presumably refers to electrostatic loudspeakers

links to info on some personal faves:

http://www.quadesl.org/body_introduction/body_introduction.html
http://www.quadesl.com/

Hawkeye · July 2010

I'm not sure how RT1 traps his 'stats, but I have my stats about 4.5 foot off the front wall and I have a 2X4X4 inch thick trap hanging directly behind the panel. They are mounted 4 inches off the wall and are of the High Frequency variety. This helps to tame the rear wave a bit and allow it to reach my sweet spot at nearly the same time as the front wave.

Gordon

inspiredsports · July 2010

mhardy6647 wrote: »

"electrostats" in this context presumably refers to electrostatic loudspeakers

links to info on some personal faves:

http://www.quadesl.org/body_introduction/body_introduction.html
http://www.quadesl.com/

Got it!

Yes, very cool stuff, but beyond where I'm at right now.

As in post 1 my gear is at a point of "decent" unless I want to go to components at 2 or even 5 times the current investment. That can't happen . . . yet.

For now, my TL'd SDA SRS 2's and TL's SDA 2B's have to do the trick.

I'm happy it was pointed out that room treatments should be considered before I continue evolving my gear.

mhardy6647 · July 2010

Kittehs make excellent traps for electrostatics (or is it vice versa?).

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1330381&postcount=26

megasat16 · July 2010

Quad made some very nice Electrostats. So is Soundlabs, Logans, and a few others.

Planars are of cool too. From the Box to OB (Open Baffle) and then to Line Arrays. SDA are Boxed Array too which is cool. Take the room out of equation. Listening in the free open space with nothing around you is my ultimate goal. Perhaps, I need to buy bigger land in this housing bubble. Or I can use REW with passive room treatments and some DSP tone control. Whatever floats your boat.

For H9, YMMV!

inspiredsports · July 2010

Ricardo wrote: »

Cool. Just don't count with me to help carrying stuff

Yeah, I realized after I wrote it my statement could be taken either way. I initially meant to call you to listen to your system, but the thought did cross my mind to call for help with my buddy's ancient, 300lb. steel framed hide-a-bed when we carry it up to his 4th floor attic

:D

inspiredsports · July 2010

OK, back on track . . .

--- No Electrostatic Speakers in the near future for me .

--- I missed a call last night with a CP friend about a new tubed CDP and will try to connect tonight.

--- I'm learning about bass traps and wall panels

--- new tubes for the VTL just arrived a minute ago so I'm off to warm them up and set the bias !!!!!!

madmax · July 2010

Is there a comprehensive article somewhere concerning room treatments that could explain exactly what tests to run in your room and what to do with the results?

inspiredsports · July 2010

I noticed this site while searching and have no idea if the author is a "guru" on the topic, but I was able to come away with a basic understanding of, theoretically, what kind of profile might look good on paper . . . http://spikyfish.com/acoustics/

As I do with all other components, I'll learn to apply the science, but will let my ears make the final decision.

reeltrouble1 · July 2010

did you know that a curved object will not necessarily react identically when struck in the same spot by an outside force..........

this causes chaos in Rabbit Holes.

Gordon I trap my stats in much the same way, which somehow makes YOU seem smarter.......

1. speaker
2. gear
3 tweaks

or on your mark, get set, go..........

Magnifico Max gave you a jewel early on.

RT1--Random Thought.....falling short is practice for going long

inspiredsports · July 2010

If I'm going to keep up with that, I think I feel a chemical dependency coming on . . . . .

reeltrouble1 · July 2010

of course you do, what the heck do you think we are all doing, the Rig's are responsible, the better the sound the bigger the response, the more hairs stand up, more goose bumps, the ear bone tingles with the sweet candy and of course the wood. dont sell her looks short either.

its not passion, its an obsession. there are many sub-routes along the way, areas of individual interest which are chosen minors to the overall major of the hobby...sound quality reproduction, the minors add color to the hobby.

you are on your path, simply follow it.

RT1

inspiredsports · July 2010

Sometimes . . .

. . . especially when you mention, "of course the wood. don't sell her looks short either. . . "

. . . a picture says it best.

madmax · July 2010

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

did you know that a curved object will not necessarily react identically when struck in the same spot by an outside force..........

Why is that?

Hawkeye · July 2010

RT1, I don't know if I'm smarter than you or not! I will say it takes me several minutes of thinking on how to decode some of your post's:D Sometimes I fail miserably!

So no stats for the OP. The traps will still work. I'm experimenting with the SDA-SRS2 in my system with the Logans sidelined for awhile. I've had to move a pair of traps to meet the first reflection point which is now in a totally new spot based on speaker positioning. Profound change? No, but a very subtle change in the tweeter response on my ears. Considering the gear you have, I'd bet most changes are subtle. However, when loading the corners with bass traps, the effect was anything but subtle. One note bass became a thing of the past.

I would recommend you don't cheap out on the egg-crate foam. PErhaps a small piece here or there to tame a wicked freq, but it won't get the job done like a broadband trap will.

Gordon

inspiredsports · July 2010

I was on the ethanwiner.com website and read one specific line that made me think. Winer writes, "Even though it may not seem obvious, very low frequencies do in fact leave a speaker cabinet in all directions."

While I only use one pair at a time, my SDA 2B's and SDA SRS 2's sit side by side with about 3 inches between each left cabinet and each right cabinet.

Q.: Does the low bass Winer mentions that is coming out of the side of the cabinet being driven excite the passive radiator in the cabinet not being driven?
Follow Up: If Yes, is the bass absorbed? reflected? amplified? by the cabinet not being driven.

Hawkeye · July 2010

I personaly think Ethan has got the gouge on trapping. Just don't ask him about wires or tweaks or you'll get your head bit off:D

I know I had a cabinet from Ethan Allen that my wife just loved. It was giving off and amplifing so many bass freq's that nothing would correct for it. If one had a pair of speakers generating a certain freq, a hitchhiking pair of speakers would respond to the freq's being generated. That is why I took my ML's out of the room. I wanted to know what the SRS2 could or couldn't do.

Speakers set side by side is a poor indicator of what they are capable of, since the hitchikers are absorbing or deflecting the true sound.

Gordon

inspiredsports · July 2010

Hawkeye wrote: »

I personaly think Ethan has got the gouge on trapping. Just don't ask him about wires or tweaks or you'll get your head bit off:D

I know I had a cabinet from Ethan Allen that my wife just loved. It was giving off and amplifing so many bass freq's that nothing would correct for it. If one had a pair of speakers generating a certain freq, a hitchhiking pair of speakers would respond to the freq's being generated. That is why I took my ML's out of the room. I wanted to know what the SRS2 could or couldn't do.

Speakers set side by side is a poor indicator of what they are capable of, since the hitchikers are absorbing or deflecting the true sound.

Gordon

There goes my back. Those SRS 2's are a load!

doctorcilantro · July 2010

I know you mentioned you are slowly getting into a Pc-source, and I think picking up a nice DAC would be a huge boost.

Maybe start by not dropping major coin on something like a Wyred DAC2, but a USB DAC. Actually, I am going to PM you.

Room treatments however, are a must.

doctorcilantro · July 2010

madmax wrote: »

Is there a comprehensive article somewhere concerning room treatments that could explain exactly what tests to run in your room and what to do with the results?

RoomEQ Wizard is free, has just been updated, community supported, and gets rave reviews.

You need a calibrated mic and the capacity to to record (run the mic through an ADC into your PC).

inspiredsports · July 2010

doctorcilantro wrote: »

I know you mentioned you are slowly getting into a Pc-source, and I think picking up a nice DAC would be a huge boost.

Maybe start by not dropping major coin on something like a Wyred DAC2, but a USB DAC. Actually, I am going to PM you.

Room treatments however, are a must.

I'm not really ready to devote more resources to digital just yet, but I have tiptoed into those waters.

I picked up an "HA Info NG27 DAC/Headamp" a few months ago from Mike Grierson of Rock Grotto in Scotland (http://rock-grotto.co.uk). He's the guy who modified my Musical Fidelity X10v3 tube buffer and built it's custom "Little Pinkie" power supply that is highly sought after as a power source for any Musical Fidelity component.

On the HA, Mike added one AD8620 DAC chips (on a Brown Dog) per channel, stacked on an extra Buf634 Chip per channel and fitted an extra 2200uF of decent quality Nichicon brand capacitance.

inspiredsports · November 2010

Updating this thread, I got sidetracked a bit over the past 5 months, using funds earmarked for a CDP upgrade elsewhere. Part of the budget ended up helping put a nice rig in my son's room, and I did end up moving up a row or two when searching for his CDP ended up landing a '95 Yamaha 5 Disc CDC-645 in my rig. I sold the 2 NAD 5425's I had and it covered a portion of my son's goodies.

Most of my funds for a better CDP ended up sending my recently acquired VTL ST-50 to Music Technology in Virginia for a full blown upgrade, and auditioning 14 vintage FM tuners. I resold 11 of the tuners and kept 3, with a Kenwood KT-5020 currently at radioxtuners.com in Michigan (billbillw 's brother-in-law) for a full blown upgrade and alignment.

Everything is paid for and will be back here within a week or two.

So back to the single-disc CD player, I decided to explore some vintage stuff and found a steal on a Sonographe SD-22 (1993 I think, by Conrad-Johnson). The seller described the sound quality as excellent, but the exterior as "poor to fair" and the remote as wreaked by battery acid and non-functional.

The exterior problem turned out to be latex paint spatter which took less than 30 minutes with Armor-All and a soft cloth to correct. The battery acid problem was less than minimal and 5 minutes with an eraser and then some baking soda on a Q-Tip put that remote in perfect working order.

So, on to the listening . . . (and I know it's a few rungs below what many here have) this unit is absolutely the best sounding CDP I've ever had in my rig, plus I know I will get my dollars back when I move up again even if I wait a year. The only downside is no digital outs, but it sounds great from the analog side all by itself.

Inspecting the guts, just by appearance everything seem to be top shelf. From what I can tell the black caps are Solen SCR Metallized Polypropylene Fast Caps, and the yellow are proprietary Conrad-Johnson.

Does anyone know anything about the reputation of these specific Solens?

Face · November 2010

They're ok for coupling and very good for power supplies.

inspiredsports · November 2010

Face wrote: »

They're ok for coupling and very good for power supplies.

I just got my VTL ST50 amp back from Musical Technology after mods and this player sounds better yet. They also previously modded my Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre and I'm wondering if it is worth them recapping this CDP?

mrbigbluelight · November 2010

RE: room treatments. In one of JM1's posts there's a link for Mike Lavigne's room treatment process that is worth the time to read.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm

Most folks aren't, as a rule, able to build a house/room around their system.
We've been running low-end gear in the "Delayed Gratification", non-critical 90%HT/10%Music mode for a while (a couple more years to go

), so room treatments would be like putting lipstick on a .... cat.
But....the information gathered here from links and very knowledgeable users is more than worth the price of admission.

Didn't mean to derail the thread, InspiredSports, just wanted to put out a "Thanks", and thanks to Polk !

Opinions for reaching the "next level"

Comments