Using Onkyo 706 as a pre-amp

grimmace19

Sorry to create another thread with one from me right below it but this has to be taken care of. After speaking with a rep at best buy he gave me the insight that the reason my receiver is going into standby mode is because although I have the preouts running to my amp, it still has the speakers turned on in its internal amplifier. Knowing this I can't for the life of me figure out how to turn off the receivers amplifier to strictly use it as a pre-amp. Normally, there is an A/B or Zone1/2 on off toggle switch but not on this model.

Can anyone please cure my ignorance?

cnh

Do you still have speaker wire connected to the Onkyo? Make sure there is NOTHING back there. Because I know that will make it go into the protection mode as the Onkyo looks for the speaker at the end of the wires connected to it. If not, I'm not sure...there's probably something in the set up menu...where it asks you? But since I'm 12K miles away from mine at the moment I'm afraid I can't recall and I can't look.

cnh

grimmace19

Nope, no speaker wire at all. Everything is hooked up as it should where I'm just running the front 3 speakers off the preout section. I need to find the way that the amps inside of the onkyo are turned off and therefore use the damn thing as simply a processor.

cnh

Are you running more than 3 speakers....In other words do you have surrounds and SBs hooked up the the Onkyo that the Onkyo is powering?

cnh

grimmace19

Nope, NO speakers are hooked up via the onkyo.

Here are the connections:

2 HDMI ins (cable box and ps3)
1 HDMI out to the tv
Audioquest G-snake interconnects from Front L and R and Center to appropriate in's on an adcom gfa-7500
Speaker wires from adcom to speakers

So my question is, is the amplifier in the onkyo even pushing anything with no connections OR, is it trying to push speakers that aren't there.

If it's trying to somehow push speakers and run its internal amp, how do I make it stop?

cnh

My suspicion, without looking is that you have to get into the SPEAKER SET-UP menu and make sure the ONKYO does NOT THINK there are any other speakers active. In other words say Front Right YES, Center YES, Front LEFT YES....and NO to everything else.
That could very well be the problem. There is a speaker menu if you rifle through the menu items you should find it!

Look to see if there is an INTERNAL vs EXTERNAL speaker option as well...that may be a factor..you'd need to tell the Onkyo that L/C/R are all under external power? Maybe?


cnh

grimmace19

I was able to figure out how to select that I don't have any surrounds right now... but with that I'm not able to turn off all the speakers meaning it knows it needs to atleast have fronts. The other thing I'm not sure about is that I only have the option of 4ohm or 6ohm speakers in the menu? I know the lsi's are 4ohm but why doesn't this onkyo have an 8ohm selection for 90% of speakers out there?

cnh

That is probably OK. Don't know without looking at my unit. You forget these things after a year away!

The 6 ohm option really means 6-8 ohms. It takes into consideration that even an 8 ohm speaker is not REALLY stable at 8 ohms all the time and might dip to 6 ohms at points (it will also run a 6 ohm speaker--there are some). So that IS THE SETTING for 8 ohm speakers. The only time you ever use anything else with an Onkyo is if you do 'indeed' have 4 ohm speakers!

Hope this works!

cnh

grimmace19

It's working right now as it has been at low volumes (getting late and dont want to push it) but still nervous that it's going to keep going into protect mode. The speakers sound phenomenal at low to mid volumes so I know they are getting properly powered from the Adcom but the receiver needs to get its **** together and not turn itself off. Thanks for the help so far and if anyone else can chime in that would be great.

cnh

Sounds like that was 'probably' your problem but perhaps....Kuntasensei or billbillw will chime in. These guys know their Onkyos backwards and forwards!! If you have anymore problems PM one of them?

cnh

jrgoswick

I was using my 705 as a pre and it still got warm. Never went into standby though. Hook your stuff up to the 706 and listen to it at low volume and see if you hear anything out of place. Also-you can't turn off the internal amps(BIG SUCK-at least I haven't found out how).

grimmace19

I'm thinking that this Onkyo is shot. Protect mode at -25db after being turned on less than 5 minutes makes me believe that it's not an overheat issue but something really wrong inside. Regardless of if it works now with all the back speakers turned "off" it's not going to help me as soon as I get some 7's or 9's in the back in which I have it thinking its powering those. With this said, the ebay seller has offered me a refund that I believe I'm going to take.

Now, does anyone know of a receiver that does TrueHD and would function as a pre without any issues like the ones I'm having? I'm also willing to try a dedicated pre but for the cost as well as hardly any of them doing HDMI it seems like it would be the wrong direction for what I'm attempting to do.

cnh

Sorry to hear about that...? My Onkyos haven't given me much trouble.

I'd suggest you look at some Pioneer Elites....lower models with Pre-outs. They are nice AVRs! A VSX-21 or 23....the new models are out but you'll have to spring for more cash there.

Look for the thread...Someone HERE is selling one!!

https://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104238

cnh

tboo72

Id try to find a new/used Denon AVR-990 or AVR-3310ci. I had one & used it as a preamp & was very impressed with its features for the price.

grimmace19

The onkyo is going back tomorrow and therefore I'm in a rut looking for a new receiver. Because i'm only using something as a preamp and power doesn't matter would I be wise to just look for something cheap with preouts such as the Yamaha 665 (new for like 250) or should I step it up a notch and hunt down a pioneer elite or something of that nature?

cnh

Check my link out above....the guy is selling a Pioneer Elite VSX-21 with everything you need for 470? And I'm sure you could bargain a bit. A great receiver, nice pre-amp...enough HDMIs and processes all the current HD formats.

A good deal for you. This receiver is probably less than a year old?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/ci.VSX-21TXH.Kuro?tab=D

cnh

grimmace19

thanks for the link. Ive contacted him already and he might have a local buyer lined up. If it's gone though would it be a bad move to go the cheap route?

cnh

Depends on whether or not you like the Yamaha sound? You need to hear it for yourself. Also check the weight? If I'm not mistaken the 665 is lighter than the 663 which had a more powerful amp section. But that's irrelevant if it's just to function as a pre? I know the 663 has pre-outs. Make sure the newer Yammie (665) also has them. You can check that on their site. IMO the Elite is a better pre if you can get it? OK, I just checked, THE 665 DOES HAVE PRE-OUTS.

Since you're running LSIs which tend to be laid back, the more 'forward' and slightly 'brighter' sounding Yamaha might be OK. If you were running Rtis I'd advise against the Yamaha--too bright for them!

The Pioneer also has Wolfson DACs which are wonderful...I know because I have a Pioneer blu-ray with the same DACs and it puts out a very nice sound!

cnh

jinjuku

If budget is a concern but you would like more of a specialty piece check out the Emotiva UMC-1 processor. It is $699.

They had a few software quirks with it early on but firmware releases took care of it. The two that were common was the EQ not setting speakers properly and I believe analog to HDMI sometimes dropped when switching sources.

Emotiva offers a 30 day money back so you could try both the Yamaha and the Emo. If one doesn't do it for you then take it back.

reeltrouble1

receivers are alot like depends, they hold the big stuff ok but alot little stuff leaks all over the place.

RT1--and while your thinking it, no its not based upon personal experience.

grimmace19

Thanks for the link to the emotiva... a bit more than I was looking to spend but in the same regard it will save a lot of trouble. I hope I can find one used...

F1nut

www.audiogon.com

I'll bet you can find something better used and for less.

grimmace19

I'm all ears for pre suggestions .. they just need to do HDMI and TrueHD and be 700 or less....

reeltrouble1

absolutely, if you are going used check out a bunch of them, some to consider....Anthem, B&K, Sunfire, NAD, there are just so many to name, you should really be able to get a good deal as things are moving fairly slow, I suppose a good place to start would be to determine what is essential for the pre-amp, things like, do you want a 5 or 7 channel, how is the audio signal handled, do you need an HT bypass for music...or do you even care about music and so on, it easy to get buy-itis, we all do, budget?? well, I tend to be flexable others are firm with a number, I suppose what is most important is to think about things, do some research and then make your decision, in the end its your choice, just remember if you get something and just hate (we all been there) it, its just not for you and likely someone else will be looking for it, generally, for used gear you pay a third to half of original cost, just a rule of thumb.

I have bought a lot of gear from the Flea Market, (older members or guys who participate) also like F1 links the audiogon site, use a bit of caution, if it looks way to good to true, well like the old addage, it likely is, guys into the hobby know what things are worth so its just about how bad they want to sell, occasionally I have hit a jackpot when somebody just wants something else so bad they really cut a deal, other times guys dont want a budge a dollar, I guess its alot like buying anything else, but of course buying audio items gets my motor running.

Have fun. I still like the audiogon the best for used gear. Now you can get terriffic deals on a pre or even an upscale reciever that do not have the HDMI pass through or processor for the HD, the thing is many blu-ray do and then you can pass that signal using the analog outs on the blu-ray to the reciever, for the video you can run from the blu-ray, satellite, what have you straight to the TV via the HDMI, its one way to save some dough as of course most are wanting the HDMI like you say, so great gear without it comes on the cheap, but sounds great.


RT1

jinjuku

grimmace19 wrote: »

I'm all ears for pre suggestions .. they just need to do HDMI and TrueHD and be 700 or less....

Not sure you are going to see a lot of used pre-amps out there that meet those requirements.

You could, as others suggest, find a pre-amp with 7.1 channel in and let the BR Player do the decoding. The issue comes down to getting a pre-amp that has multiple 7.1 pre-in. What happens when you want another HD source (or 2).

You would need multiple 7.1 pre-in for as many HD sources that you are going to connect to it. That is even assuming that all your source players be it BR/Cable or Sat Box/Home Theater PC/Game Console/ or media streaming device like the WDTV Live, Popcorn Hour Media Tank, Asus O!Play etc... would even have 7.1 analog out.

Even if you had the ability to go with a used, non-hdmi pre and you had three sources with 7.1 out, and a pre that had three 7.1 in, you are talking 24 analog cables, 4 HDMI cables and an external hdmi switch with it's own remote and A/C adapter. That is a lot of cabling vs 4 HDMI:eek:

I think you would be hard pressed for a pre solution that is used providing you with much future proofing.

grimmace19

After scouring the interwebs for the last few hours for different deals and workable solutions, the emotiva posted above truly seems like the best option. All I am hooking up is a PS3 and cable box (hdmi) a changer (rca) and a wii (also rca) For 700 bucks it seems like a great alternative compared to trying another used receiver just to have it not work like the last one for my needs.

F1nut

It seems that you are more concerned about wiz bang than sound quality and that's fine, but keep in mind that todays wiz bang will be obsolete in 6 months. Good sound quality is forever....well, almost.

jinjuku

grimmace19 wrote: »

After scouring the interwebs for the last few hours for different deals and workable solutions, the emotiva posted above truly seems like the best option. All I am hooking up is a PS3 and cable box (hdmi) a changer (rca) and a wii (also rca) For 700 bucks it seems like a great alternative compared to trying another used receiver just to have it not work like the last one for my needs.

Glad it was of help:)

grimmace19

^ I guess I don't truly agree with this statement. I'm concerned about sound quality mainly in my home theatre quest meaning TrueHD is something I want to have. I don't want any simulated crap based on using anything other than HDMI. I listen to music most of the time via an external hd from mp3s so I'm not going to get great sound quality though those any way I go. So basically I just want the LSI's to sound the best for movies, run efficiently off the adcom and prevent something from going into protect mode while I'm running things. In my audio journey, it seems that the emotiva does provide me the best route for what I'm looking at doing and gives me a lot of versatility if I want to step into the vinyl realm. I'm also not saying there aren't other options... but for the price, nothing comes close unless I'm missing something?

jinjuku

F1nut wrote: »

It seems that you are more concerned about wiz bang than sound quality and that's fine, but keep in mind that todays wiz bang will be obsolete in 6 months. Good sound quality is forever....well, almost.

I wouldn't agree with that. The UMC1 is using industry standard HD video and Audio codecs. It's processing the same bitstreams that any other HD capable receiver or preamplifier is processing. It's using the same HDMI standard as everyone else.

What exactly is going to be obsolete with the UMC-1 that wouldn't make everyone else's 'wiz bang' also obsolete? Is there some new Software/Hardware spec coming out that we don't know about that would obsolete a current pre-pro but not an older mostly analog pre?

F1nut

gives me a lot of versatility if I want to step into the vinyl realm.

Vinyl? You need a dedicated phono pre if you want the best sound from that format.

I'm also not saying there aren't other options... but for the price, nothing comes close unless I'm missing something?

Yes, sound quality. If you think all pre pros sound the same because they process the same codecs, you have a lot to learn.