FatMat Sound Deadner

zingo
zingo Posts: 11,258
edited July 2010 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
On the tip of some Polkies, I recently picked up 10sq/ft of FatMat XTreme from ebay for $20 including shipping and a roller tool. Having used Dynamat Extreme in the past, I'll be interested to see how this stuff stands up against the more expensive stuff. I've planning on doing the horns and woofer baskets in my Klipschs, as well as the enclosure of my SACDP, and whatever else I can get my hands on. :D

I'll post SQ and installation results as I apply the mat and play around with it. I just got the box in the mail one week after order, so I'm excited to get my hands dirty.

fatmat-xtream.gif
Jake
Post edited by zingo on
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Comments

  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    Nice price. I'm almost out of my roll of Dynamat extreme.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • mole'
    mole' Posts: 3,160
    edited July 2010
    so you gonna open up your house speakers and line the insides of them with the liner?

    how much does/will this help?
    mole'
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    mole' wrote: »
    so you gonna open up your house speakers and line the insides of them with the liner?
    It's applied to the baskets of stamped drivers, not the cabinet itself. I also use it inside gear that has a stamped chassis.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,834
    edited July 2010
    It's good stuff, excellent bang/buck IMO (did you get the cutting knife too with your order? :)) I still have a good-sized piece of it left, looking around for places to use the rest of it.

    I also liked this page from their website, might come in handy for people.
    http://www.fatmat.com/tek/ohms.html
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,387
    edited July 2010
    Face wrote: »
    It's applied to the baskets of stamped drivers, not the cabinet itself. I also use it inside gear that has a stamped chassis.

    Is it a bad idea to apply it to the cabinet itself? If so, why?

    (I always hated the "Why" question back in school)

    Stan
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2010
    skrol wrote: »
    Is it a bad idea to apply it to the cabinet itself? If so, why?

    (I always hated the "Why" question back in school)

    Stan

    I would second that. I've been unofficially toying with the thought...
    Jake
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  • mole'
    mole' Posts: 3,160
    edited July 2010
    me too

    WHY???
    mole'
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2010
    IMHO, since it is quite efficient on the basket I feel it would be wasted on the cabinet it self (not counting that installing to the cabinet wouldn't stop the mechanical metal parts of the basket from vibrating) but let's wait on a more knowledgeable opinion....
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • mole'
    mole' Posts: 3,160
    edited July 2010
    can someone take pics next time they do this please?
    mole'
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2010
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104234
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited July 2010
    Dynamat or in this case, FatMat is designed to deaden noise issues from vibrations such as sound waves. It is designed to used on metal products. It is not designed to be used as damping material on the inside of a speaker cabinet. There are other products that are designed for that purpose.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Dynamat or in this case, FatMat is designed to deaden noise issues from vibrations such as sound waves. It is designed to used on metal products. It is not designed to be used as damping material on the inside of a speaker cabinet. There are other products that are designed for that purpose.

    Just to add the metal backing on the outter part of the product when used on the inside wall of a speaker would cause all kinds of frequencies to go bouncing around the inside of the cabinet.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52810&highlight=Dynamat
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Just to add the metal backing on the outter part of the product when used on the inside wall of a speaker would cause all kinds of frequencies to go bouncing around the inside of the cabinet.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52810&highlight=Dynamat

    Good point on the backing.

    I'll by applying the FatMat tonight to speakers, so I'll take pictures if I remember. :p
    Jake
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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,387
    edited July 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Just to add the metal backing on the outter part of the product when used on the inside wall of a speaker would cause all kinds of frequencies to go bouncing around the inside of the cabinet.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52810&highlight=Dynamat


    I'm not trying to argue but to gain understanding, so please humor me. I am trying to understand how the metal backing would cause all kinds of frequencies to bounce around. Isn't the metal backing also damped by the rubberized core material? It certainly will not ring.

    Is it because it is smoother than the normally exposed fiber board interior?

    I have Dynamat like material covering the interior of my RTA11TL's. It does reduce some of the ringing of the cabinet walls as measured using an RTA FFT waterfall and a calibrated digit (finger) to administer an impulse (tap) the cabinet.

    I can't swear that it has made any significant improvement in SQ as I had added Sonic Barrier behind the MW's and sealed the cabinet seams before any listening tests. There were improvements in SQ but it is difficult to determine which brought them.

    Obviously, I would like to know if the Dynamat on the cabinet walls is a bad idea so I will know if I should remove it.

    Stan
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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  • xj4094dg
    xj4094dg Posts: 1,158
    edited July 2010
    polrbehr wrote: »
    It's good stuff, excellent bang/buck IMO (did you get the cutting knife too with your order? :)) I still have a good-sized piece of it left, looking around for places to use the rest of it.

    I also liked this page from their website, might come in handy for people.
    http://www.fatmat.com/tek/ohms.html

    How about the car?
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." Neil deGrasse Tyson.
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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,387
    edited July 2010
    It is excellent for applying to the inside of the car door skin and trunk. It also seals the holes that are ofter the the door frame behind where the door panel mounts. Any large body panel that may ring.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    This is for use inside of cabinets:

    http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?FTR=sonic+barrier&search_type=main&WebPage_ID=3&searchFilter=sonic+barrier&x=0&y=0

    http://soniccraft.com/products/damping/blackhole5.htm

    The metal backing of fat mat or dynamat will just add to internal reflections.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,387
    edited July 2010
    I'm still being educated... Will those products effectively increase the acoustic volume of the cabinet?

    Part of my goal in using the Dynamat was that it dampens ringing but would not significantly impact the acoustic volume.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,387
    edited July 2010
    The attached drawing shows where I have the Dynamat, Sonic Barrier and Daycron applied.
    Stan
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited July 2010
    Part of my goal in using the Dynamat was that it dampens ringing but would not significantly impact the acoustic volume.

    The cabinets don't ring, only metal rings.

    [QUOTE-Face] The metal backing of fat mat or dynamat will just add to internal reflections. [/QUOTE]

    Exactly.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,387
    edited July 2010
    Perhaps "ringing" is the wrong term. If you go into any main stream home audio department and tap on the side of any main stream floor standing speaker, there is a sound that it makes as the side vibrates. The RTA11TL does this too to a lesser degree. This vibration of the cabinet is what I wanted to eliminate figuring it is coloring the sound. Ideally, this vibration should be managed with bracing to firm up the cabinet or with higher density cabinet material. I saw Dynamat as an easier, though less effective, solution.
    Stan
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,834
    edited July 2010
    xj4094dg wrote: »
    How about the car?

    I should clarify; I meant some easy places to use the rest of it :D

    The metal baskets of the drivers I installed in my truck were already done.
    I don't think I have enough to do all 4 door panels though. :(

    Maybe the driver baskets on my RTi10s, if I ever feel like removing them...
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited July 2010
    skrol wrote: »
    Perhaps "ringing" is the wrong term. If you go into any main stream home audio department and tap on the side of any main stream floor standing speaker, there is a sound that it makes as the side vibrates. The RTA11TL does this too to a lesser degree. This vibration of the cabinet is what I wanted to eliminate figuring it is coloring the sound. Ideally, this vibration should be managed with bracing to firm up the cabinet or with higher density cabinet material. I saw Dynamat as an easier, though less effective, solution.
    Stan

    Ok Stan, I've got ya. The issue, as Face pointed out, is the metal skin on the Dynamat will cause more problems than its damping qualities will solve. There is a sound damping material that can be painted on the cabinet walls with no worries about eating up cabinet volume. CP member Decato would be able to provide you with more info on that product.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    skrol wrote: »
    Perhaps "ringing" is the wrong term.

    You mean resonance or resonate.

    Resonance = box coloration = distortion
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • xj4094dg
    xj4094dg Posts: 1,158
    edited July 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ok Stan, I've got ya. The issue, as Face pointed out, is the metal skin on the Dynamat will cause more problems than its damping qualities will solve. There is a sound damping material that can be painted on the cabinet walls with no worries about eating up cabinet volume. CP member Decato would be able to provide you with more info on that product.

    but using it on the baskets won't cause this? .....or will it?:confused:
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." Neil deGrasse Tyson.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    As long as you're applying it to the back of the baskets, no.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • xj4094dg
    xj4094dg Posts: 1,158
    edited July 2010
    Face wrote: »
    As long as you're applying it to the back of the baskets, no.

    Cool. Thanks! I just ordered a bulk kit.
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." Neil deGrasse Tyson.
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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,387
    edited July 2010
    Ok, I'll take your word for it. I am still trying to grasp the mechanics of how the metal skin will cause problems. It was really an experiment anyway.

    I'll look into the paint-on stuff or a thin Sonic Barrier like material. I have been meaning to do some more work on the speakers anyway. I want to JB weld the magnets and I might try swapping my XO caps from Clarity Caps to Sonicaps since they are on sale. I can use some of the Clarity Caps in my Monitor 5A's.

    So where does this leave us with the FatMat?

    Thanks
    Stan
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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