Unemployment rate in the U.S.?

cfrizz

Well then I guess you would be willing to get paid that $6-$8 an hour right? If the job isn't worth 75k, then what would be a fair salary for this job & would any of us be able to survive what they would get?

We were already in a deep hole with no way out and we all know it.

Demiurge

Unemployment?

Wait until the tax increase hits at the end of the year. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Hope and change, baby!

inspiredsports

cfrizz wrote: »

Well then I guess you would be willing to get paid that $6-$8 an hour right? If the job isn't worth 75k, then what would be a fair salary for this job & would any of us be able to survive what they would get?

We were already in a deep hole with no way out and we all know it.

I work 40 to 60 hours, some weeks for ZERO DOLLARS, some weeks for a decent wage. I pay employees and all expenses FIRST and whatever is left over is mine, if there is not enough there I BORROW.

I am "worth" (your word) solid 6 figure earnings, but have not been able to pay myself anywhere near that for nearly 2 years. And guess what, during those times I borrow to stay afloat, I can't go on unemployment because I own the company (but I still have to pay unemployment for myself and employees).

The same basic rules apply to companies of 3 or 3,000. NOTHING can be guaranteed unles a profit is made. There is NO SUCH THING as FAIR.

cnh

hearingimpared wrote: »

I absolutely don't begrudge them that. I remember what my father and sister made before the teachers union got into full swing. What I object to is when a teacher states that one of the reasons they are going on strike is because they are not making enough money to pay their schooling loans off . . . that is absurd. Plus, making $75 to $100k is nothing to sneeze at even in the highest cost of living areas with the exception of New York or Boston. Can anyone else think of places where that amount of money per nine months wouldn't be enough to live comfortably?

BTW Ben & Constantine I've scoured the website and can't find that radio show in the archives so you are just going to have to take my word for it.

I don't doubt that at all Joe. NYC, BOSTON, CHICAGO, L.A., etc. are all areas that could and would require such salaries...also more education and the number of years served boosts average salaries for Public School Teachers from what I've seen, although that is not my field.

And I agree (surprise!) that education and educators are important. Let me tell you some stories there. The BIGGEST problem in Chinese Education today is the lack of creativity and innovation? Which is largely due to a style of education that emphasizes rote learning based on approved texts, passing tests and studying to get the best score on the National College Examination. (Those who believe in 'accountability', standards and testing--let China teach you a lesson here--no student can PASS a test like a Chinese student!) The Chinese are very good at memorizing and mimicing but due to the History here the Individual and Individual thinking is not, or has not been a priority. At present, there is a big PUSH to get people trained in Business in the U.S. because they need more creative managerial skills and new ideas. And, the U.S. Sciences are still the envy of the world and that includes China. Students still choose to come here to get that advanced degree if possible...though that is changing some. And people like me are cominng East to teach and share, and help change education in China.

This is not to say there are no individuals in China, but just to say that it is riskier here than in the U.S. If the Chinese can fill this gap then NO amount of effort or variety of strategies will save American jobs...those that are truly middle-class the 75k+?

And Norm is right. I live in Maine; my salary is in the top 5%, in New Jersey, I don't even make the 50% cut and could afford a garage with a bit of land around it? That's one reason I left N.J. after a year of teaching there in 2000. It's impossible to live there and raise a family unless you're making a minimum of 100k+ and 200k+ would be more like it. So it certainly is relative.

BTW I have a 4 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath, partially finished basement, two story, two car garage house on a 1/3 of an acre with enough paved space for a small B-Ball court outside the garages! And I come in at about the price that Norm quotes above. If I could move my house to N.J., Boston, or Long Island. There is NO WAY I could afford to buy it. Up here I already own it!

cnh

Demiurge

cfrizz wrote: »

Well then I guess you would be willing to get paid that $6-$8 an hour right? If the job isn't worth 75k, then what would be a fair salary for this job & would any of us be able to survive what they would get?

We were already in a deep hole with no way out and we all know it.

Cathy, in reality $6 - $8 per hour doesn't mean anything. Neither does $75K. The market pays what the market will bear. If the average wage in this country was $6 - $8 per hour, the costs of goods and services would drop to meet that.

Right now the supply of workers is high and the demand is low. By and large, businesses are solely in the drivers seat when it comes to negotiating pay and benefits. In an economy where jobs are plentiful, the opposite is true. Businesses are then forced by the marketplace to pay more to attract the kinds of people they need to grow.

When it comes to these giant corporations....nobody is forcing any of us to work for them. If you don't want to go through your working life being nothing more than a number that's shuffled in and out the door on a whim, don't work for a place like that! Go work for a small business where loyalty is a two way street or start your own.

Not a single one of us is entitled to a job or a certain amount of pay. It is that mentality that has been steadily killing our economy. That and the redistribution of wealth.

nooshinjohn

inspiredsports wrote: »

I work 40 to 60 hours, some weeks for ZERO DOLLARS, some weeks for a decent wage. I pay employees and all expenses FIRST and whatever is left over is mine, if there is not enough there I BORROW.

I am "worth" (your word) solid 6 figure earnings, but have not been able to pay myself anywhere near that for nearly 2 years. And guess what, during those times I borrow to stay afloat, I can't go on unemployment because I own the company (but I still have to pay unemployment for myself and employees).

The same basic rules apply to companies of 3 or 3,000. NOTHING can be guaranteed unles a profit is made. There is NO SUCH THING as FAIR.

Agreed on all counts. Maybe if the Governent just guaranteed everyone a 75k/year income... wait, why not a 100k/year income. Maybe we could nationalize Microsoft, Apple and Berkshire-Hathaway. Then we could take all their money and distribute it to all of us?

Big corporations, their management, and the big paychecks are not the problem. There was a time when success was rewarded in this country, and those that made it to the top were held out as role-models to be emulated. Remember Lee Iacocca anyone? How about our own Matthew Polk? I am willing to bet he has had bigger paychecks than any of us will ever see. Does anyone begrudge his success? After all, our speakers are all made outside the U.S these days.... These two guys are HEROES to me, but today corporate leaders have become the scapegoats for social engineering experiments gone wrong and a government run amok from the top down.

History would teach us that when government stays out of the way, corporations thrive, income and employment "nessesarily skyrockets", and creativity blooms in all sectors of our economy. We were shown the best way to handle labor unions when they make unreasonable demands. (thanks Ronnie) Most importantly, we learned that we as Americans are able to face any challenge, bear any burden, and hold our heads high knowing that we are the greatest nation God has ever formed on this earth.

Once we get back to those "certain inalienable rights" and practice our common values once again, that "shining city on a hill" will shine again for us all.

Demiurge

inspiredsports wrote: »

I work 40 to 60 hours, some weeks for ZERO DOLLARS, some weeks for a decent wage. I pay employees and all expenses FIRST and whatever is left over is mine, if there is not enough there I BORROW.

I am "worth" (your word) solid 6 figure earnings, but have not been able to pay myself anywhere near that for nearly 2 years. And guess what, during those times I borrow to stay afloat, I can't go on unemployment because I own the company (but I still have to pay unemployment for myself and employees).

The same basic rules apply to companies of 3 or 3,000. NOTHING can be guaranteed unles a profit is made. There is NO SUCH THING as FAIR.

I'm in the same boat. Holding my paycheck until the rest of my employees have cleared and bills are up to date. Borrowing money to the company to make sure my bills are paid on time because I have customers stringing me out 60-90 days and am in no position to refuse business.

Meanwhile, taxes keep going up, insurance rates keep going up, utilities keep going up, and on and on.

2008 was our best year ever. 2009 was our worst. This year is only slightly better than last so far but that's obviously not saying much.

I haven't had to lay anybody off yet but when the tax increases kick in after the first of the year and the economy doesn't improve I am probably going to have to let 2-3 people go.

Nobody truly understands how abusive our government is to business until they're actually in the position of having their own necks on the line.

cnh

Demiurge, inspiredsports.

That's admirable. If we had 'more' like you that would be a start! As we all know it's really the small business owners that drive job growth and that's where things have REALLY stagnated...for many of the reasons given above.

cnh

mystik610

Healthcare reform is one of the biggest factors hindering unemployment rates right now. I do work in mergers and acquisitions, and one of the factors we're heavily scrutinizing in evaluating the profitability of a company is the cost employing their workforce. Most people would be surprised to know how much employers are really paying for health insurance. A good chunk of the cost of paying for an employee is derived from employee benefits.

What a lot of people don't realize is that most medium/large (over 100 employees) businesses self-insure their health insurance program. Payments for medical claims are deducted from the financial statements of the company dollar for dollar. The premiums collected from employees are the only off-set to the cost incurred by the company. The role of a health insurance company in self-insured programs is purely administrative. ie, you maybe buying into a United Healthcare insurance program, but the insurance program itself is being directly funded by your employer.

With the recently passed healthcare reform, a lot of employers are on the fence about whether or not to start rebuilding their workforce, because they're unsure about the cost of hiring employees. Employers that aren't on self-insured plans are seeing rate increases from insurance companies that will be foreced to take on heavier financial risks. Employers that traditionally don't have to account for the cost of health insurance for their employees are now weighing the cost of instituting a health insurance program or being penalized for each employee they don't provide health insurance for. It seems a lot of companies would rather eat the penalty right now!

From an M&A perspective, there's a lot of uncertainty about whether or not reinvesting in the workforce would yield a justifiable gain given the presented uncertainty.

Historically, a decline in the job market would bottom out and start to recover about 6 months after the financial markets bottomed out. It's been almost 17 months since the financial markets bottomed out in March of last year. Investment Banks have been lending like mad since the beginning of this year....this usually invigorates the job market, but we haven't seen unemployment rates move in a long time.

The scary thing is, the government can only perpetuate growth through rate cuts, stimulus packages, bail-outs and unemployment checks for so long. Financial bubbles occur when economic growth deviates from productivity growth. Right now the growth we've seen in the financial markets is founded on government bail-outs, generous unemployment extensions, and dangerously loose monetary policies. Given current unemployment rates, there's very little real productivity backing what little wealth the american economy has been able to generate in the past 2 years. If the job markets don't pick up soon, the economy will implode on itself again.

cnh

Good points M-610.

I know for a fact that my employer pays about 6-7000 dollars a year which is in addition to the 5K I contribute for health insurance. That's 1000 dollars a month! 12K a year (combined)--no small sum there. Especially for the 'smaller' guys and their WORKERS! You could employ more than a handful of Chinese laborers with that kind of money. lol

cnh

markmarc

Whether one accepts it or not, job growth won't really take hold until all the foreclosures are flushed thru the system. Then, and only then will home construction rebound creating jobs that will lead to economic expansion.

May I suggest that everyone download and read Rep. Paul Ryan's (R-Wis) Road Map 2.0. In it he makes factual case for a complete tax overhaul along with other changes to get our country's finances in order. What is really sad is that the Republican Party isn't even using it as the basis for their new Contract with America, even though the CBO has run his numbers and agrees that his changes would put things on a positive track.

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I know its hard to do, but we prefer to keep politics, as much as possible, out of the Forum.
Thanks, Ken

hearingimpared

cfrizz wrote: »

Well then I guess you would be willing to get paid that $6-$8 an hour right? If the job isn't worth 75k, then what would be a fair salary for this job & would any of us be able to survive what they would get?

We were already in a deep hole with no way out and we all know it.

No Cath I wouldn't take a job at $6 to $8/ hr for a $75k job. I don't have the answer. Allow me turn it around on you.

Let me ask you this, can you think of a viable option for a corporation or a medium sized business, who after all in IS in business to make money, to make it more attractive to NOT outsource to a foreign country who are willing to make far less money than what is demanded here in America. I sure can't but I can understand why they would outsource. Do I like absolutely not. However I don't think that makes them greedy demons either. It's good business. Why do you think our government bids out jobs to the lowest bidder?

Outsourcing at one time meant that an outsourcing company here could offer their services cheaper to a company and what made it attractive was HR work, inteviewing process, benefits, salaries, equipment, customer service etc which all cost money, the outsourcing company would take all of this over for contracted fee. It spiraled out of control when India found that they could do the same but for far less money.

Do you buy name brands of foods, household goods, gasoline or medication or do you buy their generic equivelent? Same thing applies. You go for the cheapest prices. Thousands of people do it. Does that make you, me or others greedy demons in the eyes of the brand name products. No! Because they know people will still buy their product and they can still make a profit.

The big question here which is obvious how do American companies compete with the likes of China, India, Taiwan, Korea, etc. We as Americans need to step up and make some sacrifices so that American companies can boast "American Made" again without going broke in the process and bring industries back to our home soil.

What's the answer? I don't have one.

hearingimpared

Demiurge wrote: »

Cathy, in reality $6 - $8 per hour doesn't mean anything. Neither does $75K. The market pays what the market will bear. If the average wage in this country was $6 - $8 per hour, the costs of goods and services would drop to meet that.

Right now the supply of workers is high and the demand is low. By and large, businesses are solely in the drivers seat when it comes to negotiating pay and benefits. In an economy where jobs are plentiful, the opposite is true. Businesses are then forced by the marketplace to pay more to attract the kinds of people they need to grow.

When it comes to these giant corporations....nobody is forcing any of us to work for them. If you don't want to go through your working life being nothing more than a number that's shuffled in and out the door on a whim, don't work for a place like that! Go work for a small business where loyalty is a two way street or start your own.

Not a single one of us is entitled to a job or a certain amount of pay. It is that mentality that has been steadily killing our economy. That and the redistribution of wealth.

Dave you are right on the money with that statement.

davidk0512

inspiredsports wrote: »

I work 40 to 60 hours, some weeks for ZERO DOLLARS, some weeks for a decent wage. I pay employees and all expenses FIRST and whatever is left over is mine, if there is not enough there I BORROW.

I am "worth" (your word) solid 6 figure earnings, but have not been able to pay myself anywhere near that for nearly 2 years. And guess what, during those times I borrow to stay afloat, I can't go on unemployment because I own the company (but I still have to pay unemployment for myself and employees).

The same basic rules apply to companies of 3 or 3,000. NOTHING can be guaranteed unles a profit is made. There is NO SUCH THING as FAIR.

Small business is the backbone of this country, I'm mostly concerned about their survival going forward with the increasing taxes and other legislated costs of being in business. I have several friends here in Texas where it's much easier and affordable to be in business that may end up shutting down due to upcoming costs of healthcare. How badly will your business be impacted?

jdhdiggs

Oooh, moochers vs producer's thread! Awesome!It is interesting to see the difference between those that deal with this every day and those that just hear slogans and knee jerk reactions.

sucks2beme

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Big corporations, their management, and the big paychecks are not the problem.

I've always worked for big companies. What I've seen is management swapped over
from old school people that were part of the business to the new model guys that are
all numbers and no understanding of the business they are in.
They do crazy stuff that makes accounting sense, but kill the bread and
butter part of the business. I've had several customer requests in the
month that required spending $50k-100k this quarter to make double that
next quarter. Didn't happen, so they went somewhere else. WTF?
Everything we did that netted the better margins was stopped,
and it's all about not spending any money today. They subcontract
work so as to not add head count, and the subs can't work without heavy supervision.
And to make it worse, their hourly cost is almost as high as our internal burden rate.
So I now spend 80% of my time making sure subs don't screw up. That's a lot of phone
time, combined with remote access into systems. And the Indian guys we use are just
smart robots with no problem solving skills.

inspiredsports

Great thread/discussion and everyone seems quite passionate about this topic.

Seems like the OP's questions have been answered.

I'm tapping out; both out of this thread, and out of business if things continue on the course set.

mystik610

davidk0512 wrote: »

Small business is the backbone of this country, I'm mostly concerned about their survival going forward with the increasing taxes and other legislated costs of being in business. I have several friends here in Texas where it's much easier and affordable to be in business that may end up shutting down due to upcoming costs of healthcare. How badly will your business be impacted?

That’s precisely the predicament that business small, large and everything in between are facing right now. Someone made the comment earlier about the abundant supply of workers and the lack of demand to hire employees right now. All of that is tied to the diminished financial capacity of employers, who have been beaten down by the financial meltdown, to hire new employees.

Healthcare reform is literally adding insult to injury for employers who are already struggling to keep their employees on the payroll (let alone hire new employees). When you consider that the cost of health insurance easily equates to 20-25% of the cost of keeping an employee on payroll, you can see why the prospect of employee benefit costs doubling over the next 4 years is hard for a lot of employers to swallow.

I don’t fully disagree with the idea of healthcare reform, but the timing of it was a blatant example of how political ambition can get in the way of doing what’s best for the country. Healthcare reform could not have come at worse time, but Obama put Healthcare reform at the forefront of everything else. Washington spent the better part of a year tied up in debate over healthcare reform legislation, when they should have focused on legislation that would have put people back to work! Worse yet, the healthcare reform legislation was passed in a form that puts very heavy burdens on employers, and flat-out undermines any potential improvement of unemployment rates.

This isn’t just philosophical talk of what the government should and shouldn’t do….This is real talk, and it’s really happening right now.