Unemployment rate in the U.S.?

PhantomOG

sucks2beme wrote: »

Other than maybe American Airlines, I can't think of a single union
In the state of Texas. Or most of the states in the South or Southwest.

Unfortunately you are forgetting one of the largest and fastest growing employers in the entire US. The government (be it local, state, or federal). And when everyone works for the government.......

madmax

cfrizz wrote: »

BINGO!!!! I would be crazy to uproot myself to go to another state for a job, that could up & disappear in the blink of an eye. Then where would I be? No job, no family, and most likely in debt because I had to move.

Life is a gamble. I've picked up twice to move across the country and I'm SO glad I did! I did whatever it took both times to make it a great situation. Its an exciting time to move to a new place with new faces and prove yourself, I wouldn't give it up for anything.

LessisNevermore

Amherst wrote: »

You could not be more wrong. This is nothing more than news media generated banter.

The destruction of labor unions is a huge part of the decline in overall wages. Check your history. Take a hard look at Germany.

Companies will not pay a dime more than they have to. Unions are part of the checks and balances in the system between labor and corporations. Unions are already crushed in this country, less than 15% of the current workforce is union and most of those are civil service and teachers. So how is finishing them off going to help the economy???? It won't is the real answer.
Less spendable income is a brainless solution.

Twenty years ago the number was in excess of 40% and these were much better times...no???

This deserves a repeat.

hearingimpared

Amherst wrote: »

You could not be more wrong. This is nothing more than news media generated banter.

The destruction of labor unions is a huge part of the decline in overall wages. Check your history. Take a hard look at Germany.

Companies will not pay a dime more than they have to. Unions are part of the checks and balances in the system between labor and corporations. Unions are already crushed in this country, less than 15% of the current workforce is union and most of those are civil service and teachers. So how is finishing them off going to help the economy???? It won't is the real answer.
Less spendable income is a brainless solution.

Twenty years ago the number was in excess of 40% and these were much better times...no???

The unions had nothing to do with that. I find it reprehensible that a group of people can force a company to pay and provide benefits to their liking or else the union will force the company out of business. Yeah that will get them their demands . . . their demands right to the unemployment office.

Unions had their place at the turn of the century and the early year of the 1900s. They made their mark and yes, they did do some good however now they are just causing schools, businesses etc to fold.

I come from a family of teachers, my dad RIP, and sister were/are teachers. I read an article a month or two back that teachers were threatening a walk out at school district. When asked by the administration why they desearve (what they already had as very high pay and benefits) more, the teachers responded with, "I have school loans to pay off but I love what I do!" The administrator counter with, "why should the taxpayers of this community pay for your school loans, plus if you love what you do, you have your reward!" Needless to say they went out on strike and the administration FIRED them all. We are talking about teachers here who were making $75 to $100 K per year. Now the greedy unemployed teachers are collecting a small pitance compared to what they were making.

Not only that, take into consideration all the people who aren't in a union whose livelyhood is affected by a union going out on strike. Why should these people on the periphery loose wages until the strike is over, because the main body of a busnesses work force is unionized.

nooshinjohn

hearingimpared wrote: »

The unions had nothing to do with that. I find it reprehensible that a group of people can force a company to pay and provide benefits to their liking or else the union will force the company out of business. Yeah that will get them their demands . . . their demands right to the unemployment office.

Unions had their place at the turn of the century and the early year of the 1900s. They made their mark and yes, they did do some good however now they are just causing schools, businesses etc to fold.

I come from a family of teachers, my dad RIP, and sister were/are teachers. I read an article a month or two back that teachers were threatening a walk out at school district. When asked by the administration why they desearve (what they already had as very high pay and benefits) more, the teachers responded with, "I have school loans to pay off but I love what I do!" The administrator counter with, "why should the taxpayers of this community pay for your school loans, plus if you love what you do, you have your reward!" Needless to say they went out on strike and the administration FIRED them all. We are talking about teachers here who were making $75 to $100 K per year. Now the greedy unemployed teachers are collecting a small pitance compared to what they were making.

Not only that, take into consideration all the people who aren't in a union whose livelyhood is affected by a union going out on strike. Why should these people on the periphery loose wages until the strike is over, because the main body of a busnesses work force is unionized.

Ok... so I break my vow of silence again!

The above statement is exactly right. Study your history people and you will see exactly where unions come from, how they began, and who supported(s) them. They seem like they are a great idea; All-for-One! One-for-ALL! Share the Wealth!

In reality, what they have done is inflate the cost of doing business and erode the quality of what we produce and destroy our standard of living over time. This has happened so slowly that we cannot see it. It is safe to say that with few exceptions, manufacturing(the bedrock of the Labor Unions for nearly a century) is a dead animal here in the U.S. after they pushed it into financial collapse. Hell people, we lament the fact Polk speakers are no longer made here, and THIS IS EXACTLY WHY!!!
The companies that held fast to the buy American and pro-union theology are all dead and gone, and they took our jobs down with them.

Now the unions have their hooks into the Federal and State/Local governments, and it is here that the real damage is being done. As the size and scope of Government becomes to burdensome to function and monies to fund it dry up, what will happen when it can no longer function? Kloward and Piven anyone?

Study history... KNOW HISTORY, lest we end up repeating it.

inspiredsports

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Ok... so I break my vow of silence again!

The above statement is exactly right. Study your history people and you will see exactly where unions come from, how they began, and who supported(s) them. They seem like they are a great idea; All-for-One! One-for-ALL! Share the Wealth!

In reality, what they have done is inflate the cost of doing business and erode the quality of what we produce and destroy our standard of living over time. This has happened so slowly that we cannot see it. It is safe to say that with few exceptions, manufacturing(the bedrock of the Labor Unions for nearly a century) is a dead animal here in the U.S. after they pushed it into financial collapse. Hell people, we lament the fact Polk speakers are no longer made here, and THIS IS EXACTLY WHY!!!
The companies that held fast to the buy American and pro-union theology are all dead and gone, and they took our jobs down with them.

Now the unions have their hooks into the Federal and State/Local governments, and it is here that the real damage is being done. As the size and scope of Government becomes to burdensome to function and monies to fund it dry up, what will happen when it can no longer function? Kloward and Piven anyone?

Study history... KNOW HISTORY, lest we end up repeating it.

Exactly. For hiring to pick up, taxes, regulation, and the ability for workers to participate in mass-extortion need to be down.

I would be willing to bet that any of the above posts touting areas of job opportunity have no (or reasonable) unions involved.

cstmar01

madmax wrote: »

Life is a gamble. I've picked up twice to move across the country and I'm SO glad I did! I did whatever it took both times to make it a great situation. Its an exciting time to move to a new place with new faces and prove yourself, I wouldn't give it up for anything.

It could be a rewarding experience, but we as humans like comfort and security. Most people get comfortable in their current position and stay put, they are used to it, it makes them feel secure that they are not out fighting in the job market for something else ect. I think in todays world it is even more true. People want to go home knowing that they can return to work the next day and get that paycheck on Friday. Picking up and moving away from that world is scary and most people do not want to leave the comfort of their home, friends, and family to possibly try and find another job, espcially if they can get by with what they currently have.

Even if your unemployed the task to pick up and move is a very hard thing for a lot of people to do. If you have a family and own your own house it makes it even harder. Personally I like the idea of picking up and moving if need be, thats why I like renting, however I know that even if I did just pick up and move, that I would possibly be searching awhile for a job, and that is the part that scares me.

hearingimpared

Another reason I do not like unions is, where is the competition amounst workers? Every one gets the same pay whether they break their hump working or just laze around and let the other guy(s) pull their weight.

One of the great things I loved about working in the corporate world was on a semi-annual or annual basis, you were given a performance review and a raise compensatory (called a merit increase) with your work ethic and production for the company. The first five years I worked for a particular corporation I got the max, a 20% increase in salary every evaluation. Now I know things are different now and a 20% increase in unheard of these days but the practice of merit increases still exists.

You don't get that with unions.

BlueFox

Not taking sides, but this appeared and seems relevant to the discussion.

http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/100720hawkerbeechcraft.html

"Hawker Beechcraft’s union has posted a letter warning of a bleak future based on a mid-July meeting with company leaders. Company officials have not commented on the union letter.

“The picture we are getting is of a Hawker Beechcraft that will shrink almost immediately by 75 per cent or more within two years, without a guarantee of even the last few jobs staying,” "

davidk0512

Link to a map showing the unemployment progression by county since 2007, at least you can see where conditions and odds of finding a job are better

http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html

madmax

cstmar01 wrote: »

we as humans like comfort and security.

Its not real, we just like to think it is.

LessisNevermore

hearingimpared wrote: »

Another reason I do not like unions is, where is the competition amounst workers? Every one gets the same pay whether they break their hump working or just laze around and let the other guy(s) pull their weight.

One of the great things I loved about working in the corporate world was on a semi-annual or annual basis, you were given a performance review and a raise compensatory (called a merit increase) with your work ethic and production for the company. The first five years I worked for a particular corporation I got the max, a 20% increase in salary every evaluation. Now I know things are different now and a 20% increase in unheard of these days but the practice of merit increases still exists.

You don't get that with unions.

God, this is as bad as discussing religion.

I see very few people dogging it at work. For one, if the customer saw it, they'd be let go immediately. For another thing, the rest of us who are busting our humps don't allow someone to sluff off. It looks bad on all of us, and we do take a lot of pride in our work.

Competition between workers leads to backstabbing and in-fighting. Much of my work is directly safety related. If I make a mistake, I can count on my co-workers to catch it, not hang me out to dry, so they can look better. It could be disastrous.

Our merit increases come in the form of contract negotiations. If we don't perform, we don't get the work. Simple as that. Our last negotiated raise was less than 1%. There are lots of union "experts" on here who still live in the 1970's and think that the UAW is the shining example of union business. No, not anymore than saying all members of a certain religion are terrorists.

markmarc

Blaming the unions for job losses without a fair amount of blame being put on the business owners is a foolish exercise. It's a combination of both that have wiped out so much manufacturing in this country. Greed and short-sightedness regarding the business capabilities and profit led to foolish pay contracts.

A good friend started a manufacturing business about 20 years ago. To keep his workforce dedicated and working at top efficiency, he instituted a true profit sharing program. The result, he now employs 71 people and has been able to give out PS checks every year equal to 20% of their salary. By being fair and honest with employees and recognizing the value of human side of the business, he enjoys a life of wealth and happiness and pride in that he is able to give so many families financial stability.

hearingimpared

LessisNevermore wrote: »

God, this is as bad as discussing religion.

I see very few people dogging it at work. For one, if the customer saw it, they'd be let go immediately. For another thing, the rest of us who are busting our humps don't allow someone to sluff off. It looks bad on all of us, and we do take a lot of pride in our work.

Competition between workers leads to backstabbing and in-fighting. Much of my work is directly safety related. If I make a mistake, I can count on my co-workers to catch it, not hang me out to dry, so they can look better. It could be disastrous.

Our merit increases come in the form of contract negotiations. If we don't perform, we don't get the work. Simple as that. Our last negotiated raise was less than 1%. There are lots of union "experts" on here who still live in the 1970's and think that the UAW is the shining example of union business. No, not anymore than saying all members of a certain religion are terrorists.

. . . and toe stepping and idea theft, intellectual property infringement and theft etc. all part of the job depending on your position in the company however, all of the corporations I worked with the exception of one made absolutely sure we worked as a team. Team work, any of the thing you mentioned and I listed was met with great distain by management and upper management.

I don't know what you do for a living Bro but it sounds like your union has it together and wants to keep you guys employed and customer happy. Good deal!

I gotta tell you Bro, one of the things that (and I have many examples but I'll give just one) twisted my balls about unions was an incident that occured at John Peter Smith Hospital in Ft. Worth, Texas. The electricians union there took some our usual job (we had this in our contract to make sure one of our field engineers was doing the work to ensure it was done properly) of pulling 2,4, 25, 200, 500 pair telephone cables which we used to installed a computer system that had 128 dumb terminal and 68 printer on the current loop network throughout. So what I thought was "great let them do that dirty pain in the **** work." I'll just go about installed the junction boxes with the punch down blocks, installe the jacks by each terminal and printer, hookup the cables to the ports in the Mini computer, burn the eproms, program the printers etc etc.

Well the union went on strike. I had dead lines to meet i.e., install on completed mini computer system in various hosptals in my region as well as the the rest of the country in seven days per install. There was a lot more to it than I talked about above to the install. I had it down pat so I would stay up for three days & nights straight and get it all done in those three days.

I went to go into the hospital to do the work I mentioned above and got harrassed and threatened (it was ugly) if I went in. Well I was much younger then and no one was going to tell me what to do let alone tell me I couldn't work until they said so. I went in and spent a full day do the work I stated above. The next day I some how evaded the picket line and when I got to each site all my work was torn out as well as the blocks and jacks/ Nice huH!!! I called my corporate headquaters and told them what went down and they told me get out of town and go back when the strike was over. That cost me lot's of valuable time rescheduling hospitals, airline reservations etc.!

There is a lot more to the story but I tried to keep it short.

I have some real horror stories about the roofer's union but I'll hold off on that.

sucks2beme

inspiredsports wrote: »

Well thank God for Texas . . . maybe you guys set an example to lead us out of the economic ditch most are stuck in.

Not really. They are just as clueless as anywhere else. Companies are just moving down here because they can golf 11 months out of the year and buy a cheap McMansion build by cheap illegal mexican labor. I moved here because I saw the trend. But sooner or later the crunch will hit here as well.
Manufactoring creates wealth. Any guesses why China is doing so well?

LessisNevermore

hearingimpared wrote: »

........There is a lot more to the story but I tried to keep it short.

I have some real horror stories about the roofer's union but I'll hold off on that.

The problem is, there are horror stories on both sides of this fence....no matter what trade we're talking about. D-bags abound in this world, some are union members, some are not. I'd say in a lot of cases, (can't say "all" for sure) these union guys were acting without the blessing of their union, or their local Trades Council. Anymore, the way these contracts are spelled out, they protect the customer as much as the union contractor doing the work.(a good thing IMO) The Trades Council has to bless any strike action, or if they are found without merit, they get the living piss fined out of them, and sometimes other sanctions.

Much of the work I do is for the nuclear power industry, rebuilding turbines, valves, and generators.

Norm Apter

sucks2beme wrote: »

Any guesses why China is doing so well?

As I mentioned above, a seemingly never-ending supply of disciplined labor with increasing skill sets that will work for far less and under worse conditions than workers from most industrialized nations. The vast majority of these laborers migrate from the Western (i.e. poorer) regions of China to the east and in particular the southeast coast, which are the hubs for large-scale manufacturers. The migrant laborers live there year-round, sometimes in very squalid conditions, on dormitories set up on the campus of the factories and are able to send virtually all of their wages to the family back home. Typically, they might only return for the Chinese New Year or if there is a death in the family.

But there is another point. Local officials can interfere in ways there that local officials here wouldn't dream of in the name of economic growth. They can strike up a deal with foreign/multi-national companies and virtually buy up big swaths of land, forcing people off there property, paying them some sort of compensation instead. Without a highly-developed legal apparatus, most of the residents in this position have been SOL. Anyway, these official/entreprenuers offer an incredible deal to foreign investors/capitalists. They give them huge breaks on say utilities, rent and so on and of course the deal is sweetened with the disciplined cheap source of labor mentioned above.

obieone

If y'all think 10% U.E. is bad, wait 'til Cap-N-Trade get's passed. If industry in this country is on life support, that'll be pulling the plug.

markmarc

obieone wrote: »

If y'all think 10% U.E. is bad, wait 'til Cap-N-Trade get's passed. If industry in this country is on life support, that'll be pulling the plug.

Between Blue Dog Dems who don't like it, and the elections in November, C&T is a dead issue. Even if the Dems retain majority in one or both houses, the advantage will be narrowed to a very small number. It's a poisonous election issue and everyone knows it.

tonyb

markmarc wrote: »

Between Blue Dog Dems who don't like it, and the elections in November, C&T is a dead issue. Even if the Dems retain majority in one or both houses, the advantage will be narrowed to a very small number. It's a poisonous election issue and everyone knows it.

Unless you have a situation of a lame duck congress. If the house flips this Nov., they still have time to pass whatever they want before leaving office, they have nothing to lose since they will allready be voted out.

tonyb

Don't get me started on Unions.
After WW2, they had their biggest gains and pretty much created a middle class in this country. All well and good untill the greed and lust for power set in. Now it's like a bad movie with world domination in their sights. Yeah, thats a stretch,I know, but when you look at what comes out of the mouths of the SIEU, you have to take a step back and wonder. The european Union ?? It's all about controlling the people. Sound wacky ? I used to think so, not anymore. You have to pay attention to these Union bosses to see the underline intent. Match that up to what comes out of the mouths of this current administration, and you have a marriage even Karl Marx would be proud off.

sucks2beme

The money flows in a lot more than it flows out.
Trade surpluses are good. Being in the RED is bad.
Even cheap goods mean more money flows out.
Sooner or later it becomes a problem. Most likely, sooner.
Most Americans are in a debt hole. Uncle Sam is in a debt hole.
Until we as a nation fix this, it's going to get worse.
When I was a kid, they defined a third world country as one
with no industry that imported most of it's goods and exported
raw materials. A nation of consumers can't survive.
Somebody in politics must name the problem and then step up.
Dancing around the problem doesn't do anything. A long term
energy plan, a culture of thrift, and a real return to value
of hard work.

avelanchefan

I am going to take a different angle/view on this that has mainly gone unreported.

I work in the healthcare field. Live in Tucson, and work for the only trauma center in southern Arizona. We get patients from as far away as El Paso to San Diego at times, Phoenix handles the rest of northern Arizona. Well for the past year now we have been unseasonably slow. Our department usually will run 20-22 people on days, and 17-18 people on nights. Right now we are running about 16 people on days and 13 people on nights. Staff nursing is calling off an average of 2-4 nurses per unit/floor/ICU.

I am one of two night supervisors, and we had a hospital management meeting last month with all the supervisors hospital wide. The muckety mucks informed us that they had started talking to other hospitals nationwide that are similar to our model here in Tucson. The results? Same situation nationwide, decrease in patients and hospital visits. The consensus? No money to spend due to downturn in the economy, which relates to people not vacationing, not taking those extra risks like boating, motorcycling, four wheeling, OR spending thier money to be seen by doctors. Which means for us a huge downturn in patients AND trauma patients which literally fuels our hospital. We also generate a lot of patients from the "snow birds", but the last two years their population in southern Arizona has declined due to them staying in their home states and saving their money instead of staying here for 6 months.

I know it sounds morbid, but in my 8 years here at this hospital I have never seen it so slow. We have 3 ICU's that are currently closed, waiting for patients to fill those beds, and I just do not foresee that happening any time soon.

cnh

hearingimpared wrote: »

The unions had nothing to do with that. I find it reprehensible that a group of people can force a company to pay and provide benefits to their liking or else the union will force the company out of business. Yeah that will get them their demands . . . their demands right to the unemployment office.

Unions had their place at the turn of the century and the early year of the 1900s. They made their mark and yes, they did do some good however now they are just causing schools, businesses etc to fold.

I come from a family of teachers, my dad RIP, and sister were/are teachers. I read an article a month or two back that teachers were threatening a walk out at school district. When asked by the administration why they desearve (what they already had as very high pay and benefits) more, the teachers responded with, "I have school loans to pay off but I love what I do!" The administrator counter with, "why should the taxpayers of this community pay for your school loans, plus if you love what you do, you have your reward!" Needless to say they went out on strike and the administration FIRED them all. We are talking about teachers here who were making $75 to $100 K per year. Now the greedy unemployed teachers are collecting a small pitance compared to what they were making.

Not only that, take into consideration all the people who aren't in a union whose livelyhood is affected by a union going out on strike. Why should these people on the periphery loose wages until the strike is over, because the main body of a busnesses work force is unionized.

Wow Joe! Where do YOU live? The starting salary for an Assistant Professor at an Ivy League University is barely that?? You must have one heck of a tax base. I teach at an upscale liberal arts college and I barely make that!

As for Unions. I'd rather keep that out of our discussion here because that becomes 'political' very quick. The Right hates them, the Left loves them! Choose your side Red or Blue because the argument falls that way. So it's a non-argument since the two sides begin from differing premises there is no consensual ground. Two ships passing at sea. To be honest that's what the U.S. looks like from China?

The real question is; what do 'we' do about the employment problem? Together, that is.


cnh

Amherst

cnh wrote: »

The real question is; what do 'we' do about the employment problem? Together, that is.

cnh

1) Enact a flat federal income tax, fair share of burden for all (almost passed in the 80's).

2) Concentrate on return to manufacturing (probably impossible, but maybe the only way out). The paper economy, office workers, has clearly failed.

3) Remove all lobbyist from Washington (by the people - for the people)
force politicians to listen to constituents instead of money trail.

4) Add time into the equation (none of this is going away any time soon)

hearingimpared

Amherst wrote: »

1) Enact a flat federal income tax, fair share of burden for all (almost passed in the 80's).

2) Concentrate on return to manufacturing (probably impossible, but maybe the only way out). The paper economy, office workers, has clearly failed.

3) Remove all lobbyist from Washington (by the people - for the people)
force politicians to listen to constituents instead of money trail.

4) Add time into the equation (none of this is going away any time soon)

That is one of the best suggestions yet. I don't see how having this lobbyist mind set isn't akin to bribery! It is bribery afterall and they shout louder than constituents.

tonyb

hearingimpared wrote: »

That is one of the best suggestions yet. I don't see how having this lobbyist mind set isn't akin to bribery! It is bribery afterall and they shout louder than constituents.

Well, when you equate lobbyist/money/bribery, to free speech,as the supreme court has done, that won't change. But you or me do it,and our **** is in jail.

This economy is going nowhere fast untill jobs are created and from what I can see, they don't have a clue on how to do it. Mainly because nobody in the white house ever had to create a job. Subsidized jobs may be created,but once the money runs out,so do those jobs. Real jobs are created by sustained growth and right now the only sector growing is the federal government.

sucks2beme

Until a third a third party rises up, we are in trouble. Neither current
party is doing us any favors. Abortion really is a non-issue to 99%
of us. Yet is one of major things both parties use as their litmus test.
WTF? Both party's have been hijacked by extremists. There are no
gray areas, no neutral ground. A couple of independant senators
elected to office would break up this nonsense and if these guys were
truly honest, spoil the lobbyists paid influence.
This is as likely to happen as me hiting the lottery.
Pass me the tin foil, please.

WilliamM2

tonyb wrote: »

This economy is going nowhere fast untill jobs are created and from what I can see, they don't have a clue on how to do it. Mainly because nobody in the white house ever had to create a job. Subsidized jobs may be created,but once the money runs out,so do those jobs. Real jobs are created by sustained growth and right now the only sector growing is the federal government.

It seems that most real jobs/growth are created from manufacturing, something we don't seem to be very competitive in these days. No one wants to work for less money and benefits. Can't pay the bills that way.

hearingimpared

sucks2beme wrote: »

Until a third a third party rises up, we are in trouble. Neither current
party is doing us any favors. Abortion really is a non-issue to 99%
of us. Yet is one of major things both parties use as their litmus test.
WTF? Both party's have been hijacked by extremists. There are no
gray areas, no neutral ground. A couple of independant senators
elected to office would break up this nonsense and if these guys were
truly honest, spoil the lobbyists paid influence.
This is as likely to happen as me hiting the lottery.
Pass me the tin foil, please.

Man you said a mouthful!!!:) I will say this Abortion is an issue but it should not be a political issue especially one that divides both sides of the isle, takes up more time in house debates and can cause some nut jobs to vote for a candidate just based on that and could care less about the other issues that the candidate stands for . UGH!!!

The government needs to stay out of our bedroom and what happens afterwards.

AS far as the extremist go they make a lot louder noise then those opposed to their views. Whose fault is that . . . ours for not speaking up against it.