orson welles sucks

Micah Cohen

You've got to be kidding. Catch Me if You Can, Minority Report, Schindler's List, Hook, Close Encounters.

No. I'm not kidding. Stand down. HOOK? It's the worst movie ever made, an insult. (Wanna bet? See PJ Hogan's film PETER PAN [2003] and be blown away.) MINORITY REPORT? Sure, it's "the next gen's BLADE RUNNER," right? But it's basically BLADE RUNNER visually, with a bigger budget. Why can't he show us anything interesting and new? (Like, for instance, Soderberg's remake of SOLARIS, which is the best sci-fi film since BR, in which he shows us BR... in a new way!) CEOT3K is too long, and too padded with crap for the good bits to survive. Plus, it's influenced a generation of bozos who think they've seen UFOs and those little stringbean alien guys. SCHINDLERS LIST is melodramatic, pandering crap. If you have to recognize Spielshite, go for the real stuff: EMPIRE OF THE SUN, a non-pandering fill-um made with skill and understated talent.

and then there's Robert Altman...

I was never a fan of long takes of rambling boomer improv. But that's me. I have nothing against him for ruining movies the way I feel SpieLucas have.

A lot of Eastwood's movies are good but a little .... heavy-handed to say the least.

Clint Eastwood is a great director. UNFORGIVEN is a true genre masterpiece, it is. But I agree about later stuff; heavy handed. I haven't even been able to bring myself to see the one about the chick boxer who dies. (Whoops! Sorry for the spoiler there. Not.)

Quentin Tarantino? You have admit he's a master of dialog.

No I don't. He's not. Martin Scorsese is a "master of dialogue." And since Scorsese had already made all of Tarantino's films before Tarantino was even born, why bother with Tarantino? For goodness sakes, the guy's a mash-up artist and that's all, stealing everything and pretending it's his own, and not in a good way. I wish that when he gets his head blown off in Rodrigues's DESPERADO that it was for real. He's a master of marketing, is all. Don't be a sucker.

Anyway, the funny thing is, all these directors we're mentioning, even the completely terrible ones like Tarantino and Spielshite, are all more successful as directors than Orson Welles. HA! Take that, Orson! They all complete their films and market them and move on, without falling back on that Wellesian "they didn't recognize my vision" cockamamie cover story.

Now I'm going to sit in the sun and watch my new wasp catcher fill up with sucker wasps and yellowjackets who come for the sugar water and can't find their way out. BAW-HAHAHAHAHHAHAaaaa [cough, cough... eh-hem]

MC

gdb

Micah Cohen wrote: »

Good point, true.

But, I will say that Welles is a much better actor than he is director. See THE THIRD MAN, for one example. Brilliant acting! (And, great direction but not by Welles!)

MC

I liked his commercials.........change no underwear before it's time !

gdb

Vittorio De Sica, dat's a director's director ! Anyone seen The Bicycle Thief ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jnzXX9mXs

carvcom

I saw 1 mention of Kubricks "Strangelove"
Come on guys, THAT was a masterpiece.
"There's no fighting in the war room!"

shack

I like Spielberg's body of work...A lot!

I am a fan of Lucas (and no…I'm not a sheeple...he has many more detractors than fans).

I agree with Huston, Ford and Hitchcock...great directors all.

Kubrick...great? No. He made some good films...Dr. Strangelove, Spartacus, Paths of Glory. IMO 2001 is one of the worst Si-Fi films to achieve the amount of acclaim it did. Full Metal Jacket, Clockwork Orange and The Shining are average at best.

I think Billy Wilder needs to be mentioned...lots of great films.

Of the new breed...I like Peter Jackson. I know his body of work is not that extensive, (primarily the LOR trilogy) but he does good work. Time will tell if he makes more great movies.

While not in the great category I like Rob Reiner and Ron Howard's films.

Like him or not James Cameron has to be considered in the great category. His movies often are not considered as quality work simply because they are SO SUCCESSFUL, but I think he does really good work...bordering on great.

David Lean was probably the predecessor to Cameron. A handful of big, spectacular blockbusters. Laurence of Arabia, Dr. Zhivago, The Bridge on the River Kwai, Ryan’s Daughter, Great Expectations.

JPSmario

you can always count on the arts to offer up people with 'interesting' opinions. If people react to it, it's art, doesn't matter if they love it or hate it. It's art when it has the power to get people to think or emotionally react. when people yawn and walk away, it's not art. maybe commerce, but not art.

Demiurge

Jstas

demiurge wrote: »

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

hearingimpared

Demiurge wrote: »

Here we go! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

With some three day stubble and five lbs on each cheek that would have made a great poster for "Touch of Evil" Hahaha!

Micah Cohen

You know, we're naming some really great directors here (DeSica, Wilder, Lean). These guys did literally change the way films were made, and they did it over the course of long careers that really do put Orson's reputation in question. How great could Orson Welles really be if all you can say is that he made a single technically brilliant film (KANE)? Granted, it redefines "technical brilliance." But beyond that, it's an empty, unemotional film. And it's just one.

Does James Cameron's one truly interesting and innovative film (THE ABYSS) make him a genius? Does the cold technical achievement of the RINGS films make Peter Jackson a genius? Do any of the films of the second-raters we mention here in this thread hold a candle to the technical brilliance intertwined with complex depth and emotional character development of a giant film like BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI, or even a second-tier masterpiece of complexity like Thompson's THE GUNS OF NAVARONE?

Whatever! You see? You see my point?

All of these other directors we're naming, they are BETTER than Orson Welles. And yet, who's the biggest cheese? Orson! How'd that happen? Who bestowed this honor of royalty upon Orson Welles? (If you really want to know, it was Orson himself of course. Read Clinton Heylin's recent bio "Despite the System: Orson Welles Versus the Hollywood Studios" and you'll soon throw the book down in disgust at Welles's own mythmaking.)

Point proven, sez me. Next topic?

MC

[Deleted User]

Micah,
I still believe that if you look at everything that happened with Citizen Kane, in total, it is amazing.
1). a director's first movie made with many of the cast members in their first movie roles. Think of it, you've never made a movie before and neither has most of your cast.
2). the director not only co-writes the screenplay, but stars in his own movie and plays a character that ages 50 years. Think of it, not only are you thinking about what scene you're going to shoot that day, but you have to act in it with five pounds of makeup and a "fat suit" on.
3). the movie's subject matter is so unsafe and attacks so established a prominent target that it very nearly is never seen. If all that isn't enough the movie you want to make is pissing off the man who started a war with Spain!
Take any director, in history, look at their first film they ever made and compare it to that accomplishment. There really isn't another person in the communicative arts that can come even close to that. No wonder he rolled down hill from there, he used up everything making that one movie.
It would be like Babe Ruth learning he's going deaf and still being able to compose his first symphony in time to have it played at Yankee Stadium before he hits his first home run!
Jeepers, Micah, what more do you want from a guy?
Ken

headrott

I see no one has put David Lynch's name in this thread. He is absolutely one of the best IMO. Films like: Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me, Eraserhead, Mullohand Drive, Blue Velvet, and Inland Empire to name a few.

Or Billy Wilder directing Sunset Boulevard. Pretty darned good.

Greg

hearingimpared

Ah you're all wrong! Mel Brooks, now he's the real deal! LOL!!!:eek::D Shot his load early too on a couple 'o' few masterpieces of comedy and had lost it since.

I like the vaious directors of Warner Brother's cartoons. Never again will you see the like of such comedy in the cartoon world. I could say the same for the Three Stooges directors. . . but then again we're talking about movies.

gdb

Lest we forget....Dennis Hopper tried his hand at directing, with wildly mixed results !:eek:

:):)

Micah Cohen

I still believe that if you look at everything that happened with Citizen Kane, in total, it is amazing.

"Amazing"? Ok. I'll go along. Yes. It is.

But here's the rub: It's an unemotional, uninvolving film. You never connect emotionally to any of the characters. It's a technical achievement, even an "amazing" technical achievement. But it's not really a "good film." It's cold.

It's the least involving, most emotionally distant "amazing" film ever.

Still, David Lean is a better director. John Huston. John Ford. Etc, etc etc...

MC

mhardy6647

Definitely sterile, but also ahead of its time.

Given that... how do you feel about, say Metropolis, or The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari?

[Deleted User]

I'll settle for that, Micah. I disagree about it not being a movie that engages on a human level. But, I'll take whatever victory I can.
Kind of like Meade at Gettysburg.

Micah Cohen

Kind of like Meade at Gettysburg.

Sporting, old man, quite sporting of you.

Just for the record, you know a new more-complete-er than ever before version of METROPOLIS was recently found, restored and screened? It's coming to DVD, which means I'll have to rebuy it (which sucks). It's supposed to dramatically change the story from the one we're familiar with, but I'm not too frightened of that. It is a tremendously interesting, often "amazing" film.

CABINET less so, even tho I'm a huge fan of early films like this, like NOSFERATU. Lon Chaney's THE UNKNOWN is one of my favorite films. THE JAZZ SINGER makes me weep every time, I'm not ashamed. I find that my TV renders these early films (from DVDs, usually Kinos) wonderfully. I just cued up some newly released DVDs of Buster Keaton films at Netflipper.

MC

[Deleted User]

Have you followed the plight of The Senator theater? They are still showing movies even though the city is closing them down at the end of this month. They just showed the new version of Metropolis, amazing! You will love it!
Buster Keaton's "General" is my favorite War Between the States movie. Have you seen "The Cameraman"?

mhardy6647

Micah Cohen wrote: »

Just for the record, you know a new more-complete-er than ever before version of METROPOLIS was recently found, restored and screened? It's coming to DVD, which means I'll have to rebuy it (which sucks). It's supposed to dramatically change the story from the one we're familiar with, but I'm not too frightened of that. It is a tremendously interesting, often "amazing" film.
...
MC

Yup.

shack

I'm going to watch American Graffiti tonight....

Lost

I'll stick with Alfred Hitchcock, David Fincher, and Robert Rodriguez:)

Micah Cohen

Have you followed the plight of The Senator theater?

We should start a thread about it, but yeah. Tom is a nice guy, and devoted to film, of course, but he's also a wacko and (worse) a bad manager. A bad businessman. He's run the place into the ground, in my opinion, by deviating from his original, classic film ideal.

Showing SHREK VIII there may put some butts in seats for one or two shows, but it lessens the impact and importance of the theater as a great film house.

And now it seems he's gone a tad nuts, doesn't it? Is he sleeping in the place, like Erik the Phantom (OF THE OPERA)?

I can't wait to see the new restored METROPOLIS. I'm sorry I missed it at The Senator, truly.

I wonder what is going to happen to the theater?

MC