orson welles sucks

Micah Cohen
Micah Cohen Posts: 2,022
edited July 2010 in Music & Movies
Yep, I'm saying it: Orson Welles is not a good director, certainly not the greatest director of all time that every film buff seems to believe. I can name five directors off the top of my head who have proved over their careers to be better directors than Orson Welles.

I'll do it right now, looksee:

John Ford
Alfred Hitchcock
Roman Polanski
Elia Kazan
John Huston

Horrors! you say, how can you barbecue that sacred cow! Orson Welles is a genius! A wonderkinder! CITIZEN KANE, you shout! TOUCH OF EVIL, you bellow! LADY FROM SHANGHAI, you plead!

Please. Sure, KANE is a great film, ok? Technically, it is a watershed. But emotionally? It's empty and unaffecting. Do you cry at the end? Do you feel bad for Kane in the end? SHANGHAI & EVIL are failures, botched by Welles's own ego, run over budget and destroyed by the studio because he couldn't keep it together. Why? He was such a genius, wasn't he! His ideas were so ahead of their time, weren't they? BAH! He was a bad director, and he left projects half-done and poorly done, and then moaned and groaned when his financiers swooped in to try to save their investments. MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS, puh-leeze.

Meanwhile, each of the above directors, contemporaries of Welles, managed to make bonafide masterpieces (and often a few of them) without sacrificing their own "genius," and without running afoul of the studio financing system.

THE SEARCHERS, just one John Ford masterpiece, is a better film all around than the whole of Welles's oeuvre (and yes, I just used the word oeuvre). CHINATOWN is such a masterpiece that Polanski manages to out-Welles almost effortlessly. Kazan, even tho he's a stool pidgeon, made ON THE WATERFRONT after making STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE! Beat that one-two, Orson! And both Huston and Hitchcock completed more true masterpieces in their careers then Welles even began in his.

So there! Take that Orson!

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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Comments

  • Ron-P
    Ron-P Posts: 8,520
    edited July 2010
    [ducks and runs for cover]
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited July 2010
    To be fair, Kazan did have Brando at his prime to help him out.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • ESavinon
    ESavinon Posts: 3,066
    edited July 2010
    Don't forget Kubrick.
    SRT For Life; SDA Forever!

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  • Micah Cohen
    Micah Cohen Posts: 2,022
    edited July 2010
    To be fair, Kazan did have Brando at his prime to help him out.
    Good point, true.

    But, I will say that Welles is a much better actor than he is director. See THE THIRD MAN, for one example. Brilliant acting! (And, great direction but not by Welles!)

    MC
    ultramicah@yahoo.com

    "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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  • Micah Cohen
    Micah Cohen Posts: 2,022
    edited July 2010
    Don't forget Kubrick.
    Also a big rep that falls apart upon close scrutiny. Except that he did produce at least two masterpieces THE KILLING and of course 2001. (Go nuts and say that DR STRANGELOVE and THE SHINING are also masterpieces of a kind, and bingo-bango you can go right ahead and proclaim that, yes, Kubrick is even a better director than Orson Welles! HA!)

    MC
    ultramicah@yahoo.com

    "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,961
    edited July 2010
    umm... you forgot to mention A Clockwork Orange.
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  • Huck344
    Huck344 Posts: 453
    edited July 2010
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    umm... you forgot to mention A Clockwork Orange.

    and "Full Metal Jacket"
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    edited July 2010
    Micah! You old misanthropic pointy-eared freak, how the hell are you? Decided to bless us with your presence have you? Welcome aboard, be sure to pick a seat near the lifeboats!
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  • Micah Cohen
    Micah Cohen Posts: 2,022
    edited July 2010
    be sure to pick a seat near the lifeboats!
    Forget that, I'm camped in a lifeboat with all the supplies and no one else is gettin it! It's MINE!

    See, you can't just lump movies under director names. Kubrick's CLOCKWORK ORANGE is definitely not a "masterpiece," and FMJ is far from it. Give Kubrick 2001, yes, but nothing else really comes close to that.

    Sez me.

    MC
    ultramicah@yahoo.com

    "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    edited July 2010
    Yea, but name another movie that pissed off a super-rich guy like Kane did? Not to mention using a pet name for a lady part as a major theme. I agree with Welles being topped by other directors, but Citizen Kane is the best film ever made by a wide margin. Not only the film itself, but all of the back story put it in a class by itself.
    How many times have you heard, "Well, it makes Planet Nine look like Citizen Kane". They don't say that about any other movie, do they?
    Jed Leland
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  • ledhed
    ledhed Posts: 1,088
    edited July 2010
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. Speilberg is the best director.
    *runs and hides*

    I'll agree that it isn't Welles. Making the 'greatest movie of all time' doesn't make you the greatest director.

    Hitchcock is my favorite in the running for greatest of all time but he never showed the depth in plots and genres that others have. In fifty years, everyone will be clammoring about the 80's and 90's being the 'revival' of cinema and the beginnings of the new generation and Speilberg will lead the pack
    God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,842
    edited July 2010
    Well, I dunno about all that but a young Orson Wells looks uncannily like RuSsMaN with like a 7/8ths scale head.

    220px-Orson_Welles_1937.jpg
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,842
    edited July 2010
    Oh and George Lucas is the bestest director of all time!

    There, I said it. Whatchoo gonna do? Huh? Whatchoo gonna do?
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • Micah Cohen
    Micah Cohen Posts: 2,022
    edited July 2010
    I'm going to kill you, is what I'm going to do.

    SpieLucas is one of the worst things that's happened to movie making in the late 20th century. Everyone gets a couple of passes. Spielshite gets JAWS, of course, a perfect film, and EMPIRE OF THE SUN, and maybe RAIDERS, ok? But everything else he's done is clearly hooey of the first order. And Lucas gets... Um... Oh, the original, untainted STAR WARS, that's it. (And HOWARD THE DUCK for Lea Thompson in her undies.)

    These guys have done more to RUIN filmmaking then they have to save it, systematically lowering our standards since 1977. And yet they will be borne aloft in a wave of boomer revisionist nostalgia as the best of the best. BAH! ALL WRONG! A MISTAKE!
    but Citizen Kane is the best film ever made by a wide margin

    Sheeple!

    MC
    ultramicah@yahoo.com

    "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,842
    edited July 2010
    I don't actually believe Lucas was the best director. I just said it to get your panties in a wad and flex some of my Mexican judo!
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • Demiurge
    Demiurge Posts: 10,874
    edited July 2010
    Jstas wrote: »
    Well, I dunno about all that but a young Orson Wells looks uncannily like RuSsMaN with like a 7/8ths scale head.

    220px-Orson_Welles_1937.jpg

    lol...dude...HAHA

    Right Click, Save As
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited July 2010
    Micah Cohen wrote:
    SpieLucas is one of the worst things that's happened to movie making in the late 20th century. Everyone gets a couple of passes. Spielshite gets JAWS, of course, a perfect film, and EMPIRE OF THE SUN, and maybe RAIDERS, ok? But everything else he's done is clearly hooey of the first order. And Lucas gets... Um... Oh, the original, untainted STAR WARS, that's it. (And HOWARD THE DUCK for Lea Thompson in her undies.)

    These guys have done more to RUIN filmmaking then they have to save it, systematically lowering our standards since 1977. And yet they will be borne aloft in a wave of boomer revisionist nostalgia as the best of the best. BAH! ALL WRONG! A MISTAKE!



    Sheeple!

    MC

    Ah...I was beginning to get worried...but the universe is now back in balance.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  • ledhed
    ledhed Posts: 1,088
    edited July 2010
    You've got to be kidding. Catch Me if You Can, Minority Report, Schindler's List, Hook, Close Encounters. I personally loved Terminal but it was fairly algebraic.

    You can't put Lucas and Speilberg in the same breath. Speilberg shows an ability to transcend genres and cultivate amazing performances from all of his actors, the only real job of a director. No, none of his movies make my top ten but neither do any of the potentials for best director.

    The lowering of standards is thanks to the McGs, Michael Bays and James Camerons. The mainstream 'cinema' directors such as The Coens (post '00) and Tarantino aren't helping things by making the trite garbage that excites the film poseurs.

    Don't sell the filmmakers down that road, its really TV and Marketing's fault. Thanks to the blockbuster and the recent phenomenon of over-hyping obviously bad movies to try and recoup costs are driving away all the real auteurs and visionaries. The directors are just trying to make a buck and a name to finance their real 'baby'
    God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,961
    edited July 2010
    ahem... and then there's Robert Altman... another personal fave.
    Just sayin'.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited July 2010
    Jstas wrote: »
    Well, I dunno about all that but a young Orson Wells looks uncannily like RuSsMaN with like a 7/8ths scale head.

    220px-Orson_Welles_1937.jpg

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAhaahahaha!!! I see Demi has saved it on his computer . . . I can't wait to see his photoshop genius at work on this one!!!!

    BTW; MICAH WHAT A GREAT FRIGGIN THREAD!!! We need your presence more here!
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,184
    edited July 2010
    I vote for Spielberg..Shindlers List is a masterpiece for me...
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • ledhed
    ledhed Posts: 1,088
    edited July 2010
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    ahem... and then there's Robert Altman... another personal fave.
    Just sayin'.

    He is definitely too often dismissed; one of the last 'character study inside a dramatic arc with a dash of deep metaphor' directors out there.

    For me, I guess the question is what makes one 'great'? Making great movies, incredible versatility, huge box office returns, being highly influential, etc?

    As far as influential, DW Griffith deserves a heck of a nod, at least in reference to Hollywood reformation.
    God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited July 2010
    The hobbit pimp returns. All hail the hobbit pimp.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited July 2010
    Micah Cohen wrote: »
    (And HOWARD THE DUCK for Lea Thompson in her undies.)

    MC

    you got that right...
    -Kevin
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  • drselect
    drselect Posts: 664
    edited July 2010
    I have to admit not seeing many Orson Wells movies but since Lucas and Speilberg came up I am going to add Clint Eastwood to the fray.... "Unforgiven"
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  • BottomFeeder
    BottomFeeder Posts: 1,684
    edited July 2010
    "The Searchers!"

    What an amazing, wonderful movie!!!
    "Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." Bob Seger
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited July 2010
    A lot of Eastwood's movies are good but a little .... heavy-handed to say the least. "Million Dollar Baby" especially, for all the praise it got, the parents were a RIDICULOUS caricature of real people.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2010
    Touch of Evil
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited July 2010
    Oliver Stone! LOL!!!

    How about Quentin Tarantino? You have admit he's a master of dialog. Although he doesn't hold a candle to the greats.
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited July 2010
    You want to talk great direction, I have to say...........
    Mitchell Bros., Jerome Tanner:p
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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