Strap On The Training Wheels

mrbiron

(Starting off is hard when you are new to a forum and i've been psyching myself out for about a day now! So here we go!)

Hi PROFESSIONALS,

I come to you in need of assistance in the world of audio. I have recently (so recently they have the styro-foam smells still lingering off them) purchased used and new Polk Speakers from across the internet in what i have told the little lady will "Change the way we sit on the couch!"...needless to say she's angry and all future purchases have to be approved before buying. :p

Anywho, I am basically looking for setup techniques on calibration on the receiver and sub's end. I have searched this forum in hopes of finding another fellow/fillet <--(female audio listener?) in the same boat but my searches come up empty. Searched around on the Al Gore inspired internet but every website says something different or i have to be an audio junkie to understand the lingo.

Where do i begin?...the speakers make noise! YES! Step one complete. I understand the whole break-in period knowing the speakers will sound differently 6 months down the road from what they sound like now. How do i make them make the ear-gasmic sound that i have read in about 200 threads in the past months. (I know A5's aren't going to make that sound alone nor with the 606) Between the Hz on the speakers/sub and the Hz on the receiver, my brain Hz.

If i have to spend, it is an option but it has to be budget friendly and not clearly visible on the credit card bill. This is the starter setup which will hopefully blossom into a beautiful butterfly years down the road.

Can someone point me in the right or left direction. You will be rewarded handsomely with gold and women......i lied, just maybe a smiley face like this one ....but better!

LitoZacky

2 floorstanders and 1 subwoofer is ideal for music listening.
5.1 or 7.1 are for movies watching.
What you are looking for is setup techniques correct ?
Whats the percentage of Movie/Music/Gaming do you do ?

Erik Tracy

Welcome to Club Polk!

If you can tell us more about what kind of Polk speakers you bought, your other equipment, how your room is laid out, and what your watching and listening preferences are, we may be able to give you some 'sound' advice!

packetjones

Are the speakers in your signature the speakers that you have? If so we have a very similar setup. I would start by connecting everything and running the auto EQ on the onkyo. This should set all of the crossovers on the receiver. This is the best place to start with.

halo71

^ What they said!

I gotta say...welcome to CP. And that is one of the best new member 1st posts I have seen on this site!

PerfectCreature

I do think he is meaning he want advice on a budget friendly receiver?
I would assume he has his equipment listed in his sig....
I loved the part about how his Brain hz...
that made me laugh...

LessisNevermore

Welcome to CP!

I see you've learned lesson #1 where wives are concerned. The Golden Rule of HiFi....."It's better to beg for forgiveness, than ask for permission":D:D

My suggestion to get you started, is to order this disk, or similar. http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1278658390&sr=1-2 It will guide you step-by-step through the setup process. It has a quick and easy version, or a much more detailed version when you're up to it.

Then you can maybe start thinking about acoustic treatments, it will be a cheap tweak that nets big improvement in sound. Even cheaper if you DIY.

mrbiron

Hello to all...

The receiver is part 2 of the initial dilemma.

I don't have the setup mic for the receiver since i bought it 4+ years ago...i think...i will keep searching! GO TEAM! It has been my crutch for hooking up randomly sized speakers in the attempt to make something sound good. I don't know how to manually calibrate speakers. That would be my REAL problem. The Mrs. on the other hand will have to directed towards another help forum for counselling.

My speaker setup is in the signature of my original post. I have the RTI line with A5's, A4, and A1's with the DSW Pro 400.

My room Dim. is 14x16. I am a 60%HT and 39% Music with the remaining 1% consisting of turning in the TV and deciding whether i want to watch a movie or listen to music...i do a lot of staring out into space.

I read on a forum that i should take the sub and max it out and let the receiver run it from it's end?...i got nervous when turning the knob for the low pass to max it out. Just didn't feel right....What do i set this thing at?!

As for the speakers, I don't know where to begin when it comes to dialing in the settings because apparently, the receiver just makes the cones move one way or another and isn't prejudice as to how it sounds.

I added the bit about the receiver from the original post because we all know the 606 was a good idea and budget friendly at the time 4 years ago but, not to hot anymore. With all channels running, am i scratching at 70watts of dirty power?....possibly. An upgrade is needed in the future. (The future just happened, any ideas?:D)

Thanks guys....i think my boss just gave me the hairy eyeball so i will leave you with this and maybe at the lunch break, i will put down my delicious tuna sandwich with coupled sun chips and make my way back here. :cool:

mrbiron

I gotta say...welcome to CP. And that is one of the best new member 1st posts I have seen on this site!

You think that was good, just wait until i ask you folks how to add an AMP to the setup....after a new receiver of course........It is going to be BIBLICAL!!! You may want to invite a couple dozen friends over so you can all read it together! :D

HAHA....oh crap he looked at me again!:eek::eek:

thsmith

With out the mic you will not be able to correctly calibrate your speakers.

For your sub I would not turn the gain up more than half way and then run your speaker calibration on the AVR.

The 606 is ok but you really need the mic.

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk Mrbiron! You can calibrate your speakers the old fashion way.

Go to Radioshack and get one of these http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667

Then just follow the directions to calibrate all of your speakers to the same level.

packetjones

With out the mic you will not be able to run audyssey. I am not sure if any mic will do or if it has to be the onkyo mic. You may see if a friend or someone will let you borrow theirs. Also if you are close to a fellow polkie you may work out some kind of deal with them. You really need to calibrate to get the best out of you setup. In regards to the sub. set the low pass filter all the way up and turn the volume to about 1/3. This is a good starting point. If you do not have the mic to calibrate with, go into the menu of the onkyo and set all the speakers to small or 80hz.

If you are looking to upgrade the receiver in the future, make sure that the new model that you get has pre-outs so that you are able to add an external amp in the future. What is the budget that you have for a new receiver? IMHO I would hold off on a new receiver until i get my setup calibrated and can make a decision if this is the area that I want to spend my money on.

mrbiron

It must be my lucky day (or maybe because it's friday)...Made a quick phone call to someone else i know that has a 706 and has a calibration mic...should be the same right? In my travels today, i will borrow/keep indefinitely the mic and run it this afternoon. Does the setup get me in the rough area where i need to be and then fine tune from there OR are we talking about the cat's butt here and it will be spot on?

Cfrizz.... You are the first local that i have seen on this forum. I reside on the quiet side of Mass off 146 below Worcester away from the hustle'n'bustle of Boston. We are getting rain today...rejoice!!:)

As for the receiver, i have seen and read a LOT of posts here that basically say "Pre-outs + Amps = Sound Bliss" It's all about getting that clean, higher power that the receiver just isn't going to be capable of "Alone". Whether that accuracy matters more for HT or music is misunderstood by me but since i do a fair amount music listening, i may want to take that into consideration in the FUTURE.

If i get a minute, i will post some sort of photo with what i am dealing with and maybe you are all as good with audio as you are with furniture placement :D The lady friend really likes the initial furniture layout and may be apposed to rearrangement (just moved everything last weekend).

packetjones

As far as i know the mic should be the same. The calibration will get you to a good spot in regards to the setup. You may need to fine tune a little but you could also leave it as it is after calibration and be fine.

In my opinion the external amps are mainly for music. I am sure they help with the peaks in movies but you will notice the biggest difference in the music. Let us know what you think once you have it calibrated.

concealer404

If you're going to be asking about an amp down the road, it may behoove you to find a receiver now with pre-outs.

mrbiron

Thanks Packet....i shall run it as soon as my prison boss gives me the green light to "Safely" walk out the front door! :cool:

I guess i should have "Behooved" or thought about "Behooving" before i made my uneducated purchase but it's alittle late for shoulda woulda coulda's. I don't see myself running any type of monster rig that makes hold on to my glass so it doesn't vibrate off the end table but i would like to get the most out of what i am currently, and potentially be using down the road. I have no preference with receivers. I had a Yam in the past but it was a twice hand-me-down that i needed for old stereo speakers and now the 606. Maybe something, you know, modest with expandability. HDMI 1.3 is good and 1.4 benefits of running internet through the cable doesn't really sound necessary right now at all. It's called a router, everyone should have one. Unless i don't understand 1.4 to fullest?

Lets first run the ol' "make my speakers sound better mode" and then we will talk about Oomph i need for down the road! LUNCH TIME!

mrbiron

Calibration has been completed.

My test pallet started with the Dark Knight Bluray and it didn't disappoint. There is something about Ledger's joker laugh that makes it all worth it!! :D

We then went and grabbed, what i thought to be the best audio sample i could through at it. Roger Water's Amused to Death. It is still currently playing. I look forward to listening to Too Much Rope. Something tells me that axe into the log and horse carriage section will sound delightful!

That DSW 400 definitely has some balls for only being an 8"! Is the best placement in the corner of the room or should it be between the fronts. Too many websites saying different things!:mad:

We'll continue this sampling throughout the weekend and more questions will come up as we go.

Pappy1

Hi mrbiron,

My wife and I enjoyed your post. In your enthusiam for things audio/video just don't get yourself fired!

It sounds like you are well on your way in this interesting and sometimes financially draining "enterprise". Oh, and, "Welcome to Club Polk"!

Best Wishes,

Pappy

AVR - Pioneer VSX 9040TXH
TV - Samsung HL-T6756W DLP
BD - Panasonic DMP-BD605
Cable - CableOne HD DVR
Fronts - Polk Audio Monitor 70s
Center - Polk Audio CS2
Rears - Polk Audio Monitor 60s
Subwoofer - Polk Audio PSW 505

tonyb

Welcome...upgrade that receiver soon. In 5 channel mode,your probably only feeding your speakers 40 watts. Find one with pre-outs to add an amp down the road. Enjoy.

apphd

mrbiron wrote: »

Calibration has been completed.

.........That DSW 400 definitely has some balls for only being an 8"! Is the best placement in the corner of the room or should it be between the fronts. Too many websites saying different things!:mad:

........

Welcome to CP. Every room is different, so what you should have seen in your research was; experiment for what works best in your room. A long time favorite tip is to place the sub where your main seating position will be, then crawl around the room (to keep your ears at a seated height) until you find the spot that sounds best. That is where your sub should go. Unfortunately, it is not always where it can go:mad: so you will need to learn about the dreaded COMPROMISE More times than not it is something we all have to deal with at some point to some degree. Corner placement usually will give you more room gain.

mrbiron

Corner placement usually will give you more room gain.

Thanks apphd....you just made me kill about 2 hours on my belly :D
I read this and decided to give it a whirl and see what the ol' ears come up with. Honestly, after all the listening positions, i ended up moving the sub to the opposite corner in the room. For some reason, unknown to me, it sounded a little less boomy and had a more fulfilling sound to me.....THANKS!!


Here comes the new question. I feel that the center channel isn't loud enough and seems to get drowned out by the rest of the speakers in the room. Is there a way to increase the volume to one speaker only? We aren't talking much, it's just a little soft to my liking while watching movies.

I was also looking this morning around the good ol internet for receiver bargains but i don't know which ones will produce the power i need BEFORE buying an amp. Everything says 100wpc....IN 2 Channel mode! <- darn it!
are there good receivers out there with enough wpc at 8ohms to drive a 5 channel system alone with pre-outs to add more power too later? The amp is coming down the road, the Mrs. just doesn't know it yet :p

By the way, i watch Terminator: Salvation last night...i hope i didn't tax the speakers as well as the receiver. Boy do i love me some explosions. I have about 10 hours into the speakers. only about 90 more for break-in or am i way off?:eek::eek:

reeltrouble1

so glad you are enjoying the hobby, the movies and getting your audio "learn" on, now you should listen to the mentioned:

It is better to seek forgiveness than permission as you build your Rig.

You can also include a little something for your lady on occasion.

As you search for AVR's the mentioned pre-outs should be given consideration, in the meantime for lower cost but decent power, Onkyo, H&K, Pioneer offer products, check our flea market, look for the older members who have been around a while, you really only need about 35 watts per channel all channels driven for 8 ohm speaks, but its more complicated than those simple statements, when you use a powered sub your already going in the right direction as the AVR does not have to supply the power to that speaker.

100 watts is a marketing number but dont worry you'll be hearing about 200 watts in the future!!!! But that is why you see that 100 number often. What is going on with the 606that you do not like......what is the room size.

Have fun.

RT1

mrbiron

Hello RT1

The 606 is fine as a AVR but i have read many of posts that people talk about over taxing the receiver by demanding what it just isn't capable of providing...IE POWER! I just want to make sure that, since i am new to this, that i don't damage/stress either the speakers or the receiver. Turning the volume dial, how do you know when enough is enough and where to draw the line at. Obviously i'm not looking to have my ears bleed but i do know that after an hour or 2 of watching a movie/ playing a VG, my receiver feels like it should be going into meltdown.:eek::eek: Knowing enough about electronics with my computer building background, i know HEAT isn't electronics best friend.

The receiver has plenty of breath-ability in the stand i have so its not an airflow problem. I just figured that if i were to upgrade, then maybe the receiver won't have to work so hard?

My room size is roughly....ROUGHLY 14x16 give or take. I haven't actually thrown a tape on it to get exact.

On a side note of hobbies, computers can get super expensive and since i no longer tinker with them, i'm hoping to DUMP my hard earned cash elsewhere

reeltrouble1

keep the dial no higher than 11:00 as a general rule.

OK, so you calibrate each speaker, I know you used the mic, this should give you around 75 db at the listening seat, so I still do it the old way with a meter, a couple of ways to do it, I sit at the seat with my meter, set the receiver to 0 on the relative scale and hit the test tone, say for front left, I adjust using the speakers trim level until the meter reads 75 db, then on to the next, now your mic set up should have done something like this, the exception is the sub, you need a 6db bump up on the meter., The way I do it I am at "reference" level when the volume is set to 0 on the scale, this is very loud, most likely too loud, just listen where it sounds the best to you. I know its a bit confusing, its hard to write it out, so just keep asking questions.

If you push your AVR too hard it will go into protect mode and shut off, now do not go do it just to see as it may save the reciever but the speakers can be damaged, if your listening though and you like it and the receiver is not shutting down your pretty much good to go, have fun.

RT1

packetjones

The 606 is known to have some heat issues so I would not be as concerned about it. I currently use a HK254 (only 50watts/ch) with basically the same setup as you and it sounds great in my opinion. I would listen for a while and determine what it is that you feel like you are missing.

Do you use this setup for HT only or is it music as well? Sorry this may have been answered before.

mrbiron

RT1
Should i swing over to radio shack and grab a meter? If i'm going to do this, i'm going to do it RIGHT. This is the problem though. i don't want to think everything is fine on the speaker and AVR but come to find out that i am watching a movie while the speakers are within an inch of its life.

11 o'clock am or pm?? :D
I guess the easiest way to do this is turn the volume all the way down, make a little mark on the knob as well at the receiver face to ensure I don't venture past it.

Packet

i am a 60%ht and 39% music with the remaining 1% consisting of turning in the tv and deciding whether i want to watch a movie or listen to music...i do a lot of staring out into space.

If i can find my temp gun, i would love to shoot the top of the 606 and see what we are looking at for a temp.

reeltrouble1

Parasound makes a neat little device called the z-breeze, I have used one for years, check it out for heat issues, has a 12v turn on etc.

Being old school I use a meter, your mic set-up is supposed to do the same thing....I dunno, I trust the meter, just depends if you want to invest the 30 bucks or so for something you wont use everyday, although, I fiddle with it to see what SPL's certain CD's have for transient sounds, kind of geek stuff.

RT1

mrbiron

I make purchases every day for stuff i'll use once and never use again!

Is the z-breeze something you would slide under the AVR to push air up and out? If so, that's a neat little gadget. Little on the pricey side considering it's 3 PC fans in a housing. I can probably make one of those with parts from newegg!...nice advise!!

I'll swing down to radio shack this weekend. If, when done using it for the speakers, i can always pull out for enjoyment to measure the tone i get off the MRS. when i forget to feed the cats or leaving my laundry on the floor.

The possibilities are endless!

Beside, after i finish painting the ceilings in the house, i'll need something that keeps me in sitting position for at least an hour that doesn't involve Thai food.

LessisNevermore

mrbiron wrote: »

Beside, after i finish painting the ceilings in the house, i'll need something that keeps me in sitting position for at least an hour that doesn't involve Thai food.

WAHHHH!!!:D:D

You're gonna fit right in here...... LOL

packetjones

This thread is hilarious. In regards to the heat issue. I have heard of people using a laptop cooling pad on the AVR, you may look into this as well.

mrbiron

WTH!....What are these Monitor Loudspeakers Series II that i just found out about!!??!! I could have saved a couple hundred clams doing that build vs the RTi's!!:D.....I hope the RTI's were the right choice for my application!!

So i went home and did a super quick little check on the volume level of the Onkyo. I muted it just so i could see how high the volume level goes. It hit "MAX" at 70.

RT1, there is no way to keep the dial at 11 since it free spools 360, and 11ish only gave me volume level 8...I could hear my own hair grow it was that quiet.

Anywho, i've been doing all my movie watching at roughly 40, gaming at 34, and music around 30. So in essence, i've only really used maybe half of the power this thing can put out therefore, putting little stress on it? Does this make sense or do i sound like a knob? :rolleyes: