Speaker cable upgrade

kawizx9r

Ok, just thought I'd test the waters out there.

I want to get a better pair of speaker cables around next week, which is when my speakers should be arriving (currently have MIT Terminator 6's).

Since I plan on getting another external amp down the road, I will be using a pair of MIT Shotgun S3 IC's between pre and amp. I've seen others suggest to stay within the same series/model of IC's/speaker cables but the speaker cables seem to be more than twice the price of the IC's (due to lengths/etc I'd assume). I'd prefer to keep my budget within $200-300 for a pair of 7-9 footers.

Let me know what you've got or what you'd recommend I go with.

-Freddy

P.S. Non-cable believers, refrain from commenting, thanks.

kawizx9r

Also wanted to ask, anyone try out Nordost cables?

kawizx9r

Bump.

kawizx9r

Bump.

mantis

If you want to stop choking your system and want to hear everything it can do , there is 2 companies I have over the years learned to fully believe in by testing and hearing results on so many systems.

Kimber Kable. Very clean and clear. Crazy silent with excellent space between instruments. You can pick out any sound you want and fully listen to it with absolute clarity.This company comes from a pure engineering approach which logically sets them up for success . What I find is take the PPJ IC for instance and put it up against any level of cable made. You will find the performance is 90% or better then the highest end cables money can buy. Take the Hero or Silver Streak and just about all others have serious problems performing at this level. If you own the Hero's , you really don't ever need anything else ever at any level or sonic performance. The Hero does everything right.The Silver Streaks are just a tad better at the very top end with a quickness not found anywhere else. Kimber is Tied for the number 1 spot.

Audioquest. They use batteries on their cables to basically keep the Dielectric "broken in" . It allows the signals to pass unaltered. The results is you get clear and detailed sound. You noticed a difference coming from any other cables. They are a remarkable design. When speaking to anyone from Audioquest , you get the core meaning of what they do , they care about sound and want nothing less then perfection out of their products. Even a USB cable , they take great pride and care into making sure it performs at the top level a USB cable can perform. It's refreshing to see such passion in a company. It's something I feel is missing in many companies today.

Overall in my opinion you can't find better cables for any audio use then these to companies. As a custom Installer I favor Audioquest as they offer me what I need in the field to get my job done right. They have perfected the in field termination like no other. Kimber offers some in field but they tend to stay after the prebuilt market. If I was just doing 2 channel systems , it would come down to a pick it here. it took 350.00 dollar IC Audioquest Jaguar to ever so slightly better the then 150.00 Hero's and it was not any kind of blow out , it was so close it really came to a personal decision on which one I liked in my system at the time. Honestly If I had to keep the Hero's and not have the Jag's , I would not miss a beat. They are that close.

I am not a fan of MIT or Transparent anymore. After being in the field for over a Decade , I have learned there is a better way.

heiney9

Dan is just plain wrong, but it's his opinion .

I would suggest you move up the MIT line. Perhaps some AVt S1's or if you have the coin Shotgun S3's.

Dan is the exception not liking MIT's. That's not to say they have synergy with every type of rig. I do know two friends that used MIT's for awhile and then moved them along because of synergy issues. One rig is quite esoteric compared to what many here own and he was having some odd interactions based on the speakers mostly; the other friend just didn't like them with his Maggies.

H9

woodguru

heiney9 wrote: »

Dan is just plain wrong, but it's his opinion .

I would suggest you move up the MIT line. Perhaps some AVt S1's or if you have the coin Shotgun S3's.

Dan is the exception not liking MIT's. That's not to say they have synergy with every type of rig. I do know two friends that used MIT's for awhile and then moved them along because of synergy issues. One rig is quite esoteric compared to what many here own and he was having some odd interactions based on the speakers mostly; the other friend just didn't like them with his Maggies.

H9

I'm an exception too.

I know I'm a newby on here, but I sometimes can't help trying to offer help with some of the experience I've accrued over the last decade. I'm writing a book on system synergy that is being done with a great approach based on setting a foundation based on pure common sense regarding the signal path an audio signal goes through in your system from start to finish. Once you start looking at it like that everything makes a really logical kind of sense that overcomes the weird illogical things that happen as a system is upgraded in stages. I was a dealer and went through $400k+ in just wire over a few year period. When I say went through I mean I fully broke it in and did extensive comparisons and tests in different grades of tube and solid state components looking for synergies. I had a very open mind in that I had no sacred products or allegiances to or with a manufacturer that kept me from not only trying new products but switching in a heartbeat if I found a better one. As a dealer I had companies send me as much as sixty and eighty thousand dollars worth of cable for me to evaluate for several months.

What you say about the "synergy" with the wire is interesting. The reason any given wire has a factor of synergy with any given system is because it is not neutral. That is to say that it has a character or coloration that may not work with everything. Maggies are brutally transparent so the use of different speaker cables is going to allow you to hear more of what is happening to the signal as it is shaped or not with interconnects. MIT emphasizes edginess that will be heard to higher degrees as a system is more and more transparent. Think of the speaker cable as a muffler, as you get better and better you are going to hear more and more. When interconnects are chosen through comparisons using a lower grade speaker cable your choice will be faulty because you will not be able to hear harsh and edgy characteristics that are there to be heard with more transparent speaker cables. Also a colored higher quality speaker cable will influence interconnect choices because they have the effect of changing what is going on as well.

My best example of how cable neutrality is best shown is that a truly neutral cable works in both tube and solid state systems with the highest resolution speakers on the planet. That a cable would work in one but not the other proves it is "doing" something. Neutral cable does nothing and imparts no character of it's own. No coloration lends itself to smoother fatigue free listening in problem high resolution systems.

Most people fall into their reference of neutrality being the best they ever heard in their systems, best is in no way necessarily neutral when best in their system is not also best in any system. You may have great sounding cable in your system, but that's not going to necessarily be best in someone else's.

In my opinion MIT at any grade is overpriced and there are better cables for far less money (better as judged in ultimate or budget systems). That's not to say it's bad, just overpriced and colored.

As soon as people on this site hear some of my recommendations and try them that will establish a better credibility than my popping onto a forum and spouting contradictions to experienced audiophiles. I sell things here and there on other forums and have an excellent reputation and willingness to take a lot of time communicating with audio enthusiasts. I do it because I thoroughly enjoy helping people get the most out of their systems and this hobby, there is nothing like a great audio system.

Not trying to derail the post, just keep someone from making a cable mistake.

mshan242700

Can you list out what your chain of components, sans cables, will be?

Also, what type of music do you listen to, and how do you like your overall stereo system to sound (what is important to you, and what tends to bother you?)

BlueFox

woodguru wrote: »

In my opinion MIT at any grade is overpriced and there are better cables for far less money (better as judged in ultimate or budget systems). That's not to say it's bad, just overpriced and colored.

Not trying to derail the post, just keep someone from making a cable mistake.

Whew. A lot of words without saying very much.

What other cables sound exactly like MITs, or sound even better, for less money? I will be upgrading to some MIT 8' Shotgun S1.3 this fall, so if I can get the same result, and save some money, I am all ears.

mantis

heiney9 wrote: »

Dan is just plain wrong, but it's his opinion .

I would suggest you move up the MIT line. Perhaps some AVt S1's or if you have the coin Shotgun S3's.

Dan is the exception not liking MIT's. That's not to say they have synergy with every type of rig. I do know two friends that used MIT's for awhile and then moved them along because of synergy issues. One rig is quite esoteric compared to what many here own and he was having some odd interactions based on the speakers mostly; the other friend just didn't like them with his Maggies.

H9

It just comes down to experience and the ability to test different cables in different systems in different rooms for years and years. Then there is the part of taking to speaker and amp company engineers and finding out some hard truth.

Anyone can use anything they want. I will go to say this , most cable companies believe in what they say , some is just a bunch of snake oil. Proof is in the pudding.

If you want to use MIT cables , use em. They are nicely built and look cool. So are Transparent and they even look cooler.

kawizx9r

Wow, I definitely appreciate the fact that you took the time to address all that Dan.

I've actually thought about AQ speaker cables that utilize said-batteries but I've never had a chance to get a pair. Same goes for Kimber.

But in posting this thread, I was looking for recommendations that'll compliment my IC's as well as my equipment. At the same time, I was looking for something in the used-section as to not break the bank while getting an opportunity to try out a whole different cable altogether.

As for Maggies paired with MIT cables....I loved every bit of it. Though it could just be the fact that I had better synergy between components as well. Stephen Sank modified NYAL Moscode 300 Tube Hybrid amp and chinese tubed preamp (with telefunken smooth plates), Shotgun interconnects and Terminator speaker cables.

mshan, I'll be using a Peachtree Decco as pre/DAC and later down the road I plan on adding a tube amp (which one exactly I don't know).

-Freddy

woodguru

BlueFox wrote: »

Whew. A lot of words without saying very much.

What other cables sound exactly like MITs, or sound even better, for less money? I will be upgrading to some MIT 8' Shotgun S1.3 this fall, so if I can get the same result, and save some money, I am all ears.

JPS Labs and Audience to name two, for less than the big name brand's mid grade you can have top end that goes head to head with those bigger company's best, not the mid-grade. I am not a dealer for these products so it won't do me any good to recommend them.

Years ago (25) my first high end cable was a set of MIT 750 shotguns, those worked really well with whatever $100 interconnects I had bought at the Good Guys In a Carver system with the CT-18 preamp, the big amp, and Silver Oak speakers. That was a smooth and forgiving system hence MIT did okay with it.

The big cable manufacturers like MIT, Transparent, Audioquest, etc. make a huge array of cables priced at many levels. Some are colored to work in systems in different ways, ie. tube and solid state, or to tone down edginess or emphasize rolled off tube characteristics.

A neutral cable on the other hand doesn't impart any character or coloration at all and will reveal only the way the components sound. The two cable manufacturers I named make entry, mid grade, and a top performer at about $150/$300/$850, I believe JPS has a new flagship cable line but I don't know how much they are nor have I tried them. My exposure to the newer models of products stops as of three or four years ago.

Both $850 top guns from these companies go up against any of the big names like Nordost, Kimber, Audioquest, MIT, Monster, etc. (their best), and I have done extensive comparisons with a huge array of tube and solid state gear.

Before anyone rushes to call bull, I was a dealer and had BAT, Belles, Arcam, Electrocompaniet, and bought or traded for a vast array of electronics just to try the biggest names in audio. Whenever I found a product that outperformed what I had I got that product because I wanted to sell the best values in audio at any price. Any cable manufacturer I wanted to try would send me complete sets of all of their cable lines to try for three to six months. I had several friends who took systems to their homes to rack up hours on so I could compare well broken in products.

I can generally reference and show supportive reviews for any equipment and cable I recommend to people, There is a review on Audience AU-24 against Nordost Valhalla that solidly supports my premise that the $850 IC cable does very well against the Valhalla.

Because I am no longer a dealer I have nothing to gain for offering impartial advice based on comparisons amongst a staggering amount of products I have personally owned or extensively demoed, you are on your own finding anything. As a hobby type thing talking to other audiophiles
is something I enjoy very much.

My audiogon name is (aintitgr8), you can see the feedback I have there on some past cable and equipment sales. My business name was Holy Grail Audio four years ago but I have liquidated the majority of my inventory and personal equipment and have not operated as a business for some years.

Occassionally I put a chapter from my book on system synergy up on audiogon that explains the importance of cable in a way that has always been received very well. I've always enjoyed talking to people and find myself on the phone often in hour long conversations about specific systems.

As a last note I don't hesitate to say I haven't tried a specific product myself, especially where new things that have come out in the last few years are concerned.

Cable makes such a huge difference to a system I can't help but offer to help steer people in the market to upgrade in the right way.

headrott

I would give Goertz Alpha Core Python MI2 copper speaker cable a try. For the length you need, they are in your budget. I own a pair, and can say that they have very good bass response and midrange and highs are not shabby at all. I cannot say how well they would mix with you MIT IC cables, but I have tried a few different IC cables and they seem to respond well to cable changes.

Greg

Face

Goertz makes an excellent sounding cable. I may have something for you to try, PM incoming.

If you want to DIY something different, grab some Neotech before all their DIY cable is gone.

kawizx9r

headrott wrote: »

I would give Goertz Alpha Core Python MI2 copper speaker cable a try. For the length you need, they are in your budget. I own a pair, and can say that they have very good bass response and midrange and highs are not shabby at all. I cannot say how well they would mix with you MIT IC cables, but I have tried a few different IC cables and they seem to respond well to cable changes.

Greg

I'll add them to the list, thanks!

Just compiling a short list of cable brands to include specifc models/series to choose from.

So far -
Audioquest CV-4 or even CV-6 (36v dbs)
Kimber Kable 8TC
MIT AVT's
Goertz Alpha Core Python MI2

Anything I should add or even exclude from that list given my budget and required length of cable?

-Freddy

headrott

I am not sure what cable Face is gonna let you have a crack at, but any of Goertz's cable is good, as he stated.

Greg

kawizx9r

I replied to his PM, kind of interested considering I've never even heard of Goertz.

We'll see

-Freddy

headrott

Freddy,

If you do decide on the Goertz, they sell it at Sonic Craft (they don't list it on their web page). Then, when you order, order it when they have their 15% of sale. It'll be a good deal then. Also, I was looking at the Goertz web site and they have increased their prices there. Still, a 7ft. pair of rhodium plated bannanas or spades would be $306.80 (at the goertz web site). It'll be less than that with the 15% off at Sonic Craft. Just a heads up.

Greg

mak99

I personally use Kimber 8TC/4TC in my 2-channel system (bi-amped), and use 8TC in my main HT system front channels (L+R bi-amped, center bi-wired). I have been nothing but pleased with the AQ improvements since upgrading from the cheap Monster stuff <embarrassed> from many, many years ago.

Like my own experiences, give any new cable time to burn in before giving it any critical listening/reviews...

kawizx9r

Not looking anymore, since I won some speaker cables from a recent Karma

Good thread though for those looking for a recommendation given budget I posted.