Further adventures of the CS400

headrott

OK. I got a new tweeter, installed it and guess what. the same thing. No (or very little) high end.

I ended up removing the jumpers and did the Avia audio test evaluations of both the low end binding posts and the high end binding posts individually. Guess what? The low end works fine, the high end does not produce any sound at all.

So, my question is: I think it must be the solder joints on the crossover and/or the solder joints on the binding posts themselves. By the look of them it could be either. Are there any other reasons why the jumpers would not be working that anyone can think of? Thanks again for your help.

Greg

kawizx9r

Those were my first thoughts when you created the last thread, a loose solder/etc. or something crossed maybe?

Have you connected this tweeter directly to your amp/receiver (at low volume of course) and test it to see if it plays correctly as a tweeter should play? I remember the last one you said sounded like trash when you tried that.

-Freddy

headrott

Yes Freddy, I did connect it directly. It did sound like it didn't have much high end to it (but as I said I have not heard this tweeter beforeand have no reference to what it should sound like). It didn't sound very good to me though. That's what made me think that's what it was. I have just now removed basically all solder joints on the crossover and binding posts. I will resolder them and see if that does the trick. It seems like it has to as I don't know what else it could possibly be.

Can you think of any other reasons why the jumpers would not be working correctly other than solder joints? I have already replaced the jumpers with ones I made. Thanks again Freddy.

Greg

kawizx9r

Other than the solder joints, there really can't be anything else wrong with them since the metal contact from the binding posts is all one piece.

Now this may sound dumb but have you tried hooking up the center channel to either the front L or R speaker channel?

If things get out of hand, send the x-over my way and tweeter and I'll have a look at it.

Btw, in case you needed it here's the schematic for the CS400. It's stickied on the Vintage Speaker section but here it is anyway

-Freddy

headrott

OK, I resoldered all but the D1+ D1- and D2+ D2- and the bottom inductor as the solder joints looked OK. I redid all the others though. But, it still doesn't work. There is no putput from the tweeter with the reciever hooked up to only the upper binding posts.

I have not tried to hook it up to the left or right speaker cables as when I have my other center hooked up the the exact same speaker cable and same reciever, it works perfectly. It must be something to do with the speaker itself.

One thing is that the crossover wires are hooked up differently on the crossover than they show on the schematic. Theorhertically they should be hooked up correctly according to how the crossover W1+ W2- and W1+ W2- are marked on the crossover, but I am not sure if this is the problem or not??

Any other ideas? Thanks again Freddy.

Greg

headrott

Here is how the crossover is marked and wired. The correct wires are sent to the correct leads on the drivers, but I am wondering if the crossover is wired correctly?

headrott

Ooops, I got the crossover marking incorrect on the previous picture. Here is absolutely the correct way they are. I knew I should have looked before I posted it. I resoldered all connections now, and hooked up the wires the same as they were. Can someone else with a CS400 verify that theirs is wired the same as mine? Thank you.

Greg

headrott

OK, I resoldered all of the connections on the crossover board. Tried it out by hooking up the jumpers and the speaker cable to the upper binding posts. The low end works fine, the high end does not. I took out the jumpers and left the speaker cables on the upper binding posts and there is no sound. I hooked the speaker cable up to the lower binding posts (with jumpers) and of couse the low end (two drivers) work fine but no highend.

All the solder joints are fine on the crossover board. The board looks OK physically, but there must be something wrong with it or the way the wires are connected.

Can someone PLEASE post a picture of their crossover board so I can verify that mine is hooked up correctly? It should be based on the markings on the board and the drivers and tweeter, but unless there is a mismarking on the crossover (or it is a different, non-original crossover board) or the board itself is messed up then it should work.

Greg

headrott

OK, I know some of you guys own this center channel (or the CS400i). Would you please just take the crossover out of the back and take a photograph of it and post it in this thread for me? I would greatly appreciate it and may be a big help. Thank you for your help.

Greg

ViperZ

headrott wrote: »

OK, I know some of you guys own this center channel (or the CS400i). Would you please just take the crossover out of the back and take a photograph of it and post it in this thread for me? I would greatly appreciate it and may be a big help. Thank you for your help.

Greg

Don't have my CS400 any more, but have you tried checking the actual wires? Might sound stupid, but all you have between your tweeter and the crossover are wires(?). Have you tried hooking up the speaker wires directly to the tweeter to see if actually works?

headrott

I did try to hook up the tweeter and drivers directly to the speaker cable and they work. It's just through the crossover they do not. I cut away some of the orignial wiring of the drivers as some of the bare wire was exposed on it, but it did not make a difference in how the speaker (upper binding posts) worked.

It has to be either the crossover itself, or the wiring of the crossover that is the problem. I have tried everything else. That's why I am hoping that someone wil post a picture of their crossover so I can get an idea of what the wireing looks like on a properly functioning crossover, and compare it to mine. So please post a pictue of your CS400 or CS400i crossover (closeup) so I can compare it. It would help out greatly. I would appreciate it a lot.

Greg

kawizx9r

Sorry to hear you didn't fix the problem.

Might I suggest that you take good close-up shots of the crossover itself and how everythings wired?

-Freddy

kawizx9r

Alex1411 wrote: »

I also have problems like this!
So sad because I can not fix error!:(

Reported

headrott

kawizx9r wrote: »

Sorry to hear you didn't fix the problem.

Might I suggest that you take good close-up shots of the crossover itself and how everythings wired?

-Freddy

Freddy, I will takes some close up pictures and post them as soon as I am done doing the 3.1TL rings. I should be able to finish them today or Saturday.

Greg

kawizx9r

headrott wrote: »

Freddy, I will takes some close up pictures and post them as soon as I am done doing the 3.1TL rings. I should be able to finish them today or Saturday.

Greg

Ooh nice, the rings that Larry made right?

I've heard modded 2.3tl's and loved them, but I've always wanted to get my ears on the 3.1's....not to mention I really like how they look.

As for the CS400, we'll figure it out sometime or another. Like I said it's an awesome center channel and I'd hate to see it out of commission.

-Freddy

headrott

The 3.1TL's sound great and I can't wait to finish the rings for them to improve the sound even more.:D I've never heard the 2.3TL's, but would love to eventually.

I called Polk about obtaining another crossover board and they said the CS400 board is available for $35.20 shipped. If it comes down to it, at least I can still get the crossover easily (and relatively cheap). I will post a picture or two in the the next day or two. I seriously doubt it is the wiring and/or solder hook-ups as I have checked them a few times now. One thing that is throwing me is that the schematic is different than the actual crossover itself. I have read that Polk would often change the part(s) but not the schematic or the other way around, so this may explain it. Either way, unless the physical markings on the crossover are incorrect, it should work correctly.

Greg

FTGV

If the tweeter is fine then there isn't much that can go wrong since there is only a cap in series with the tweet.Do you have another cap that you can try in place of the stock one?For testing purposes it need not be the exact same value something reasonably close will due.

FTGV

Just to clarify,there is no output from the tweeter when connected to the crossover correct?

kawizx9r wrote: »

Have you connected this tweeter directly to your amp/receiver (at low volume of course)...

Definately not recommended as even at low levels a tweeter can be damaged if run full range without thebass frequencies filtered out.To be safe always hook it up through a series cap if you are going to test it this way.

headrott

FTGV wrote: »

If the tweeter is fine then there isn't much that can go wrong since there is only a cap in series with the tweet.Do you have another cap that you can try in place of the stock one?For testing purposes it need not be the exact same value something reasonably close will due.

I replaced the cap with a Sonicap 10uF (original was a 12uF) but the sound is the same.

There is very little or no high end coming from the tweeter. When you play at low volume it seems there is none (or maybe it's the frequecy range) and when played at higher volume (or higher frequency range maybe) there is barely some output from the tweeter. The audio still sounds muddy or muffled because the high end is not there or basically non-existant. The only other thing I can think of is that it's the crossover itself as that's the only thing I have not replaced.


Greg

FTGV

headrott wrote: »

I replaced the cap with a Sonicap 10uF (original was a 12uF) but the sound is the same.

Did the speaker sound fine at one point?

The audio still sounds muddy or muffled because the high end is not there or basically non-existant.

If the tweeter is connected with reversed polarity it would make the speaker sound ,muddy or hollow.By chance could the tweeter have inadvertantly been hooked up out of phase.?

The only other thing I can think of is that it's the crossover itself as that's the only thing I have not replaced.

If you replaced the cap then you have effectively replaced the crossover since that is the only component in series with the tweet.

headrott

FTGV wrote: »

Did the speaker sound fine at one point?

No, the sound of the speaker has been the same since I bought it about a month ago.

FTGV wrote: »

If the tweeter is connected with reversed polarity it would make the speaker sound ,muddy or hollow.By chance could the tweeter have inadvertantly been hooked up out of phase.?

I have checked and re-checked all the wiring multiple times. The connectors on the tweeter are 2 different sizes, so there is no way to physically hook them up out of phase there. The wires at the crossover end appear to be soldered correctly according to how the crossover is labeled, unless it is labeled incorrectly??? That is why I would like someone to post a picture of their crossover, but unfortunately no one has yet.

QUOTE=FTGV;1373288]If you replaced the cap then you have effectively replaced the crossover since that is the only component in series with the tweet. [/QUOTE]

But, there are the physical leads going from one portion of the crossover to another. If one of those was fried, or some other problem wouldn't that cause the caps to not get a signal?

Thanks for your help. Someone please post a picture of your CS400(i) crossover.

Greg

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I'm sorry you're having a problem. Try lifting one of the leads of the inductor that is parallel to the tweeter, L1, I believe off of the circuit board. If there's something wrong with this component the tweeter won't sound correct.
Regards, Ken

headrott

Hi Ken,

By lifting one of the leads are you saying it will show that there is something wrong with the inductor, or the crossover? Thanks again.

greg

[Deleted User]

Hello,
Once one lead of the inductor is no longer connected to the circuit board it will no longer be parallel to the tweeter. If it is the problem the tweeter output will change.
Regards, Ken

headrott

Got it, OK I will try it and report back. Thanks for the advice on the diagnosis Ken.

Greg

[Deleted User]

No problem, Greg, glad to be of help.
Ken

woodguru

You put a new tweeter in but have you checked it for continuity anyway? Check it with an ohm meter just to make sure there isn't a fault there.

Forgive me if that was already checked but sometimes the obvious is easy to miss, that's where I start when looking on.

I'll never forget the time I walked in on a severely frustrated cousin who was having problems with an answering machine. He was the head engineer for the routing system developed by Ciara when it sold to Redback for 4.5 billion dollars.

He spouted off all of the things he had tried and what all he had taken apart and looked at when I calmly asked him if he made sure it was plugged in. He yelled at me, "are you asking me if I made sure if there was electrical continuity?" I said, "that isn't quite how I'd have put it but yeah". Turns out it wasn't plugged in. His wife came in while he was yelling about what a frigging idiot he was, she and I laughed our butts off for the rest of the day which had him off the deep end ticked off.

But yeah, is the new tweeter good?

headrott

OK Ken I finally got around to disconnecting the lead for the inductor. I disconnected a lead to the driver inductor actually to see the result. The result is no audio at all from either binding post sets. Absolutely no audio. Would this mean the driver inductor is not functioning correctly? If I hook up the inductor for the drivers again the drivers will work. But, if I hook up the inductor for the tweeter there will still be no audio that comes out from the top binding posts. I am not educated enough about inductors, if one inductor is messed up does it affect the other? Or are they completely seperate? It seems they would have no interaction but why when I disconnect just the driver inductor there is no audio but when I disconnect both inductors the top binding posts function and the tweeter works (I'm not sure if it works correctly or not though). Can someone enlighten me please? Thanks again for anyones help on this.

Greg

headrott

I reconnected the L2 inductor for the drivers and left the L1 inductor (for the tweeter) and hooked up the speaker. It seems to work fine now. My question is, why?? It does not make sense why leaving one of the leads of the L1 inductor disconnected would make the tweeter work correctly. Anyone have an idea on this? Also, could leaving it this way cause a problem with anything?

Greg

FTGV

headrott wrote: »

Also, could leaving it this way cause a problem with anything?

Potentially it could lead to tweeter failure because the crossover slope has been reduced from 12db per octave to only 6db therefore more energy below the tweeters passband will be getting through.Also the tweeters phase relationship with the woofers will be altered.

That is a standard parallel network so the high pass and low pass sections should operate completely independantly, I don't know whats going on there.

headrott

So wouldn't the tweeter sound "strange" then if it's being overpowered? To mee it sounds pretty good, but I have never heard a CS400(i) that was working 100% correctly or the tweeter involved with this speaker.

Greg