*~Gone Active~*

TNRabbit
TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
edited April 2011 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I pulled out the solder iron & bypassed the passive crossovers in my AL-IIIs today; it took about 2 hours all told to get the Ashley crossover installed (what a snakes nest behind the unit now with 5.1 setup!!) and unsolder the x-over and solder the speakers back inline with the fuses. :D

About 15 seconds after I finished & was connecting the last speaker to the amp, a major storm blew through and knocked out our power for about 2 hours!!

The power came back on about the time & had decided to just go to bed, so I ran upstairs & got everything prepped, turned it on, adjusted the crossover and discovered....

....
....
...
...
...
...

I HATED the sound coming out of the ribbons (nasal-ish sounding), and the bass was weak! #-o

SO, I did some playing around with the levels, gave a little bit of treble boost via the TG-IV, and it's now sounding MUCH better, although I realize I'm not going to be happy until I get the Rane parametric equalizers in place (20 minutes left on the auction as I type this!) & shape the sound a little. First impression is the upper midrange is boosted a LOT with this direct connection, but I can also tell a lot of power has been freed up from the amp. The AL-III x-overs are real power hogs~

So far, things are sound pretty darned good--I also have to say the Ashley crossover is DEAD SILENT....even better than I was expecting!

More to come......................

Auction just ended on the Rane crossovers; got two of 'em, consecutive serial numbers, in really good shape for $122.00~ WOO HOO!

RanePE-15Right.jpg?t=1277266384

RanePE-15Left.jpg?t=1277266467

RanePE-15Front.jpg?t=1277266467

RanePE-15Back.jpg?t=1277266467


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TNRabbit
NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
Sunfire TG-IV
Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
Carver AL-III Speakers
Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
Post edited by TNRabbit on
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Comments

  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited June 2010
    Looking good. Keep us posted and take pics of the settings on the Ashley and/or Rane crossovers when your done.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited June 2010
    Roy, right now-just based on what I hear, I've got the woofers bumped up about +2.5 (not sure if that's dB or what, but that's on the Ashley's scale) and the ribbons -1.0 for level, then the crossover is set to 200 Hz with a 6 dB/octave slope (Linkwitz-Riley filter).

    Also, I think I've found out why it sounds tighter/faster:

    "with an active crossover, the power amplifiers are directly connected to the speaker drivers, thereby maximizing amplifier damping control of the speaker voice coil, reducing consequences of dynamic changes in driver electrical characteristics, all of which are likely to improve the transient response of the system"

    (from Wikipedia)
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2010
    I thought ribbons directly connected to an amp was a no-no.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited June 2010
    Face wrote: »
    I thought ribbons directly connected to an amp was a no-no.

    Says who?:confused:
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    Good stuff Bro! Thanks for posting it all.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Says who?:confused:
    I've read it here: https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_236&products_id=1557
    And elsewhere, but I don't remember where at the moment. If you measure the resistance across the ribbon's leads with the DMM, what does it tell you?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited June 2010
    They are 4 ohms, almost dead level all the way through the frequency response.

    Those ribbons in the link had a R of .02 ohms! No wonder it said always use a passive crossover!

    Both the Carver & Boehlinger-Graebner (sp?) ribbons have ruler-flat resistance for almost their entire bandwidth (R varies with the length of the ribbon, but generally 3.8 minimum to approximately 5.6 ohms).
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited June 2010
    Some ribbons require a transformer to make their load amp friendly.It doesn't appear to be needed with your Carvers.
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited June 2010
    Had a scare tonight; thought I had toasted one of my ribbons, but it turned out to just be a loose connection from the PS Audio speaker cables to the banana (unscrewed almost all the way).....whew!

    I'll be buying lower value fuses tomorrow~
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited June 2010
    Good to hear it was a connection and not the ribbons. :)
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    That's good Gary. I've wanted a pair of Amazings since I heard them at Ted's Polkfest and at Amulford's house, but as great as they sound they are far from a "set it and forget it" speaker system and that has spooked me off seeking out a pair. I'm glad you are able to perform the necessary surgery and changes to them, enjoy!
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited June 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    That's good Gary. I've wanted a pair of Amazings since I heard them at Ted's Polkfest and at Amulford's house, but as great as they sound they are far from a "set it and forget it" speaker system and that has spooked me off seeking out a pair. I'm glad you are able to perform the necessary surgery and changes to them, enjoy!

    They're actually very good in stock form; I've just got a bit of mad scientist in me, seeking the penultimate auditory experience~:D

    Those stock crossovers are some gawdawful power hogs, though...
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    They're actually very good in stock form; I've just got a bit of mad scientist in me, seeking the penultimate auditory experience~:D

    Those stock crossovers are some gawdawful power hogs, though...

    Yeah but there are so many other things to consider when buying them . . . just a for instance, HUMIDITY!!! While at Ted's in the hot, humid low country of GA, even with the airconditioner running full blast, those ribbons woud give an arc and crackle from the humidity.

    Yep they can demand a lot of power which both sets I heard were attached to monster amplifiers that had plenty of headroom i.e., ones I heard were biamp'd with Carver 9Ts, two on each speaker IIRC and Ted's a BAT amp that could probably power some of the space shuttle!:D
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited June 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Yeah but there are so many other things to consider when buying them . . . just a for instance, HUMIDITY!!! While at Ted's in the hot, humid low country of GA, even with the airconditioner running full blast, those ribbons woud give an arc and crackle from the humidity.

    Yep they can demand a lot of power which both sets I heard were attached to monster amplifiers that had plenty of headroom i.e., ones I heard were biamp'd with Carver 9Ts, two on each speaker IIRC and Ted's a BAT amp that could probably power some of the space shuttle!:D

    Interesting; I've NEVER had an issue related to humidity.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Interesting; I've NEVER had an issue related to humidity.

    Hehehe, I'm sure you keep them in a well airconditioned in the summer and well heated area in the winter. In GA there is no escape from the humitity!!!:eek::D
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    Got the Rane PE-15 EQs into place with judicious appplications of even MORE XLR balanced cables...what a mess of cabling behind my unit:

    DSC02768.jpg

    At first, the Ranes exhibited an INCREDIBLE amount of noise; I mean I was almost ready to take them out & forget this entire project, it was so bad. After they had a chance to warm up & I worked the scratchiness out of the pots & bypass switches, things got a LOT better. I'm going to have to pull them & liberally apply De-Oxit to everything....I think that will clear things up considerably.

    I am REALLY liking the whole active route, a LOT. I highly recommend it.

    One of the guys on the Carver forum is building me a custom pair of stainless steel cover plates to replace the original crossover plates on the back of my AL-IIIs. WOO-HOO!

    So, here's what the entire mess looks like now; sorry about the crappy pictures:

    DSC02764.jpg?t=1278307004

    DSC02769.jpg?t=1278307054

    DSC02762.jpg?t=1278307064

    I'm going to be looking for a way to pack this all away in a rack as it's getting a little TALL for the desk....that's my next project~
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    Glad to hear it's working out for you.

    Lose the monoprice cables, you'll thank me later.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    monoprice will have to do for now; maybe one day~

    Considering the low noise floor I'm hearing right now, I can't imagine what improvement I'd get with more $$$$ thrown at interconnects...
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited July 2010
    Way to go on the active setup:)

    One question, why didn't you at least try out the Behringer DCX 2496? It's an Digital X-Over with PEQ all built into one for ~$300. It would have saved you a ton of cabling and you can store presets on it and redial the entire setup at a whim.
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    jinjuku wrote: »
    Way to go on the active setup:)

    One question, why didn't you at least try out the Behringer DCX 2496? It's an Digital X-Over with PEQ all built into one for ~$300. It would have saved you a ton of cabling and you can store presets on it and redial the entire setup at a whim.

    Simply that I have had bad experiences with Behringer gear.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    I ordered new binding posts & fuse holders to go with the new panels Mike is making for me. Binding posts are from Parts Express:

    091-630_s.jpg

    The fuse holders are the knurled-knob type vice screwdriver-removable ones currently in place (although I ordered a new set of those as well, just in case). However, I also bought a set of 3 amp circuit breakers to try out:

    PHILMOREB7003.jpg
    Push Button 3A Circuit Breaker
    Philmore # B7003
    Same as GC 35-2103

    * Maximum DC Voltage: 50 VDC
    * Maximum AC Voltage: 250 VAC
    * Mounting Hole: .500"
    * Push to Reset
    * .250" Quick Connect
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited July 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Simply that I have had bad experiences with Behringer gear.

    Fair enough, I have the DCX, A500 Amp and EP2500 Amp and so far for the past 3 year (knock on wood) they have been trouble free.

    I also know it isn't the same quality as Alesis/Rane :D
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    The rear panels will have the original mounting hole configuration so I can utilize the original screw holes, but I'm going to use these type of blind nuts with same diameter bolts --- the MDF doesn't like repeated insertion/removal of screws :D :

    gpmq3324.jpg
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2010
    As much as I would love to go active with my speakers, it creates so many cables and components! There is something very nice to be said about an integrated amp and passive crossover in the speaker...
    Jake
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    I'm also going to try the physical wave guide form mod for the ribbon cavity resonance (handled with a notch filter in the passive crossover):

    RibbonPeak_NotchFix_final.jpg?t=1278451117
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited July 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    I'm also going to try the physical wave guide form mod for the ribbon cavity resonance (handled with a notch filter in the passive crossover):

    RibbonPeak_NotchFix_final.jpg?t=1278451117
    If you know the frequency of the resonance you could use one of the bands of the parameteric eq to dial in a notch filter.
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    If you know the frequency of the resonance you could use one of the bands of the parameteric eq to dial in a notch filter.

    I'm aware of that~

    Using the notch (narrowest) function of the EQ is the noisiest area. If I can implement a physical mod that corrects it, that would be the preferable treatment. Any EQ change off flat introduces noise into the signal.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    The red areas are the areas added:
    RibbonPeak_NotchFix_final-1.jpg?t=1278491340
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    The rear panels will have the original mounting hole configuration so I can utilize the original screw holes, but I'm going to use these type of blind nuts with same diameter bolts --- the MDF doesn't like repeated insertion/removal of screws :D :

    original pic didn't show~

    Blindnuts.jpg?t=1278500434
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited July 2010
    I have "Room EQ Wizard" (free online) to use in the final tweaking. Looks to be a decent software package--just what I need.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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