just bought Wadia 170i and......

cstmar01

Now I think I gotta problem. My intention was that I was going to use it in order to play a lot of the music I have stored on my computer as normally I just load everything onto my iphone and ipod nano that I want to listen to. (its in lossless and when I'm on the road its the easiest thing for me to do, if I'm at home I often either have to go look for the CD to play or burn a CD of the music thats on my computer to listen to it). Well seeing the Wadia is supposed to work great for this application I thought I would give it a try.
My understanding before getting this was that the analog audio outs on the Wadia did not use the Ipod's DAC which is what the dealer told me. After looking online and reading some about it, I was wrong. So now I would have to buy a decent DAC in order to get a better sound supposedly from what I've read and to bypass the internal DAC on the ipod.
The Wadia itself was 400 bucks with tax and all. I really didn't want to go spend another 200-400 to get a DAC.
Do you guys think I should just get a decent DAC and be done with it or return the unit and just get a DAC I can run right off my computer instead?

I guess I want the best sound possible without having to spend a ton getting there. My 2 channel room also has my computer in it so the 2nd opition is there, but seeing I have everything on my ipods already I thought that was the smarter way to go.

concealer404

Burn all your files to cd, and then insert them one at a time into your DV-47AI.

kawizx9r

I run a Peachtree Decco (built in opitical/coaxial/USB digital connections).

It's a fully-loaded integrated, with a built-in DAC too! Alot of people purchase these for the DAC alone but I'll be utilizing it to it's fullest potential. Have it hooked up to a pair of AKG271's listening to .flac's on my pc.

The Decco is a really nice, warm sounding unit but if you want better you can't go wrong with the Decco2 or even the Nova. They utilize an ESS Sabre DAC which is supposed to be much better than the first one. Got mine on the 'gon for 400, local pick-up for a near-brand new unit. The Decco2's can be had for about 600-700 and the Nova just a bit higher than that. In your case though you'll just want a Decco or Decco2 or even the iDecco with slot for ipod.

Btw, long time no talk bro

cstmar01

concealer404 wrote: »

Burn all your files to cd, and then insert them one at a time into your DV-47AI.

yeah lol I was doing that before when I wanted to listen to something on my 2 channel system when I couldn't find the original CD. PITA. I wanted to simply this a bit.

unc2701

You need a DAC to get any benefit out of the Wadia (beyond being a sweet looking dock). Since you've already got a computer there which presumably has all the same music on it, I'd just get a DAC and use that.

You can use your iphone to control iTunes on the computer with the apple remote app (free). It's a slick interface. Do a search for more info on the best ways to get clean digital audio out of the computer and to the DAC.

cfrizz

Have you even tried it yet to know if it is unacceptable? You've already made sure that you have the best recording of it possible (lossless) so what more do you want other than what Concealor said.

Plug the thing up & just go!

unc2701

cfrizz wrote: »

Have you even tried it yet to know if it is unacceptable? You've already made sure that you have the best recording of it possible (lossless) so what more do you want other than what Concealor said.

Plug the thing up & just go!

Right now, it's literally no different than a decent cable- which is about 1/10 of the cost of the wadia.

But as cfrizz points out, if it sounds good enough you can use it that way until you can afford the DAC.

cstmar01

They only have a 3 day return policy so I have to chose soon and I am also out of town. I only heard the system through the digital out into a DAC at the store it was set up at and it sounded great to me. The dealer also stated it would sound just as good through the analog as he stated it would bypass the Ipod DAC and use one inside the Wadia so I thought I was good to go until I got back and read some reviews and the manual to find out if using analog I would not bypass the iPod DAC so kinda would defeat the reason I got it to begin with. I didn't want to spend a ton on a DAC.

BlueFox

Did the dealer use 1 or 2 Wadia docks? Wadia now has a DAC (looks just like the i170) that sits under the i170, and does the digital to analog. You need both to have Wadia do the DtoA. The stock Wadia does not have a DAC, and either passes digital to an external DAC, or takes the iPod analog, from the iPod DAC, and passes it to the amp.

Personally, i have 2 i170s. They are a great device if you have an external DAC.

FTGV

cstmar01 wrote: »

I didn't want to spend a ton on a DAC.

This would work good with it. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MFVDAC

bopicasso

I just bought the v-dac from audioadvisor and Im very happy with it so far.
The soundstage, imaging and clarity all increased.
2 thumbs up!

Emlyn

Your receiver has a DAC you can use by connecting the digital out from the Wadia dock to the digital input on the receiver. It works well. A separate DAC works better though.

cstmar01

BlueFox wrote: »

Did the dealer use 1 or 2 Wadia docks? Wadia now has a DAC (looks just like the i170) that sits under the i170, and does the digital to analog. You need both to have Wadia do the DtoA. The stock Wadia does not have a DAC, and either passes digital to an external DAC, or takes the iPod analog, from the iPod DAC, and passes it to the amp.

Personally, i have 2 i170s. They are a great device if you have an external DAC.

The first dealer that I heard the system at that got me interested had both but I was under the impression that the 2nd doc also served as an amp and that you couldn't use it as a stand alone DAC as they had it set up as the whole system for some bookshelf speakers.

The 2nd place where I bought it from only had the 170 but had another companies DAC hook up with it as well. When I asked if I would need a DAC in order to bypass the Ipod DAC they said no and that if I wanted to use an exernal DAC to just use the digital out on the back, otherwise if I didn't have an external DAC to use the analog outputs on the back and it would still bypass the ipods DAC (which was incorrect because it doesn't).

cstmar01

Might get this one
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1282279300&/Valab-nos-dac-modded

Zitro

Screw that, out of principle I would have walked right back to that store and handed it right back. They're just trying to take advantage of someone who isn't familiar with a product.

cstmar01

yeah its getting returned tomorrow. I bought that DAC that I mentioned above tonight. Its fairly imexpensive and I'll see how I like running straight from the computer to the 2 channel system. Otherwise when Wadia comes out with the one with the DAC all together I'll pick that up if I still want to do the ipod route.

markmarc

The i170 is a very cool piece of engineering, but to take advantage of it you do need to be prepared to spend some bucks on a DAC and amp, or some such combo. Of course, to make the i170 truly worthy of a music server setup a full-size iPod Classic is needed as well.

This is a good example of being thorough not only in the questions you ask of a dealer, but taking the time to be informed through one's own research.

Beta

I have a 170 iTransport incorporated into my gear. Personally, I am extremely happy with it. My goal was to use an iPod Classic to store music (in lossless) downloaded from iTunes.

The above being said, all the 170i essentially does is bypass the DAC in the iPod. In order to get the full benefit from the 170i, one needs a quality DAC to run the Wadia through. I run my 170i through the DAC in my Cambridge Audio 840 CDP.

To further improve the performance of the 170i, a kind member of this forum suggested I upgrade the stock digital cable and the stock power cable/supply.

Therefore, I have incorporated a Cardas lightning digital cable and a Channal Islands Audio VDC-9.0 Power Supply Upgrade. These upgrades made a very substantial improvement.

Yes, this was expensive. However, to me, my iPod now sounds every bit as good as a CD. Again, to me, the expense was well worth the result. I have not used a CD since completing the above.

BlueFox

Beta wrote: »

I have a 170 iTransport incorporated into my gear. Personally, I am extremely happy with it. My goal was to use an iPod Classic to store music (in lossless) downloaded from iTunes.

iTunes does not sell lossless music. You can use the iTunes software to copy CDs into Apple Lossless, but you cannot buy lossless music from Apple. Unless they just started selling lossless music.

Slinger182

BlueFox wrote: »

iTunes does not sell lossless music. You can use the iTunes software to copy CDs into Apple Lossless, but you cannot buy lossless music from Apple. Unless they just started selling lossless music.

Yes they do just not much of it and I don't thinks it's true lossless.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1711

heiney9

Slinger182 wrote: »

Yes they do just not much of it and I don't thinks it's true lossless.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1711

So they sell lossless but it's not true lossless? Then they don't sell lossless. It's either lossless or it isn't.

H9

Slinger182

I didn't know what the kbps had to be to be lossless. Just knew it was better than a regular MP3.

heiney9

Slinger182 wrote: »

I didn't know what the kbps had to be to be lossless. Just knew it was better than a regular MP3.

1411 kbps is lossless

It really has nothing to do with kbps. It has to do with compression, there is lossless compression and lossy compression. The reason I say it has nothing to do with kbps is because a lossless program like FLAC uncompresses on the fly to a full 1411 kbps so while it might show streaming at 812 kbps by the time it's converted it's at the 1411 kbps which is a std cd file.

A typical mp3 (unless you use vbr) is compressed to a certain kbps setting and then uncompressed at the same rate. With vbr you can set a max which is usually 320 kbps but it's variable based on the music signal up to a max of 320 kbps.

My explanation is simplifed but you get the general idea.

H9

unc2701

... which is to say that iTunes Plus is not lossless, nor is apple claiming it is lossless.

Apple Lossless is lossless, however, to my knowledge you can't buy tracks in it via the iTunes store.

heiney9

Well not to get into another huge debate about lossless and exact copies because there are several threads already. But you can have lossless files that are not exact copies of the original like in the case of Apple iTune files.

Just because something is lossless doesn't mean it's an exact copy of the original. Extra steps need to be taken when ripping whether it's lossless or even making a WAV file to ensure it's an exact bit for bit copy.

unc2701

heiney9 wrote: »

Well not to get into another huge debate about lossless and exact copies because there are several threads already. But you can have lossless files that are not exact copies of the original like in the case of Apple iTune files.

Just because something is lossless doesn't mean it's an exact copy of the original. Extra steps need to be taken when ripping whether it's lossless or even making a WAV file to ensure it's an exact bit for bit copy.

That's actually old info- at least on my computer. I've done the exercise of confirming that ALE ripped by iTunes can get you back to a bit for bit copy (or rather can get you back to a file that's identical to an EAC rip). That was an issue on earlier releases on iTunes, but not recently. However, some hardware configs may be prone to read errors, but I imagine EAC would have issues there, too.

BlueFox

unc2701 wrote: »

That's actually old info- at least on my computer. I've done the exercise of confirming that ALE ripped by iTunes can get you back to a bit for bit copy (or rather can get you back to a file that's identical to an EAC rip). That was an issue on earlier releases on iTunes, but not recently. However, some hardware configs may be prone to read errors, but I imagine EAC would have issues there, too.

One more data point is stereophile, in their Wadia i170 review, compared Apple Lossless files to the CD files and found they were bit by bit identical.

Cpyder

heiney9 wrote: »

1411 kbps is lossless

It really has nothing to do with kbps. It has to do with compression, there is lossless compression and lossy compression. The reason I say it has nothing to do with kbps is because a lossless program like FLAC uncompresses on the fly to a full 1411 kbps so while it might show streaming at 812 kbps by the time it's converted it's at the 1411 kbps which is a std cd file.

A typical mp3 (unless you use vbr) is compressed to a certain kbps setting and then uncompressed at the same rate. With vbr you can set a max which is usually 320 kbps but it's variable based on the music signal up to a max of 320 kbps.

My explanation is simplifed but you get the general idea.

H9

I think you covered this, but just to clarify for everyone:

When dealing with mp3, AAC, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, etc (lossy formats) the bit rate directly correlates to sound quality. (Albeit, not linearly.) With lossless formats, bit rate does not matter. Lossless is lossless. It's just a matter of how efficient your compression algorithms are...

1411 kbps is the standard for the WAV format. There are other lossless, non-compressed formats that use different bit rates.

cstmar01

well it got returned today. I told the dealer that once they get the one with the DAC included to give me a call and let me know the price. For now I should be getting the other DAC this week so I'll try that out and see.

cstmar01

kill me please....

Got my DAC today. Well turns out my sound card lies. Its a Creative sb audigy 2 zs that I got when I bought the computer about 5 years ago. The digtial out really isn't a digital out. SOOO I'm looking at what to get for a cheap sound card that I can install into my computer. I can run analog from the current card out but it sounds like crap....

The DAC however I enjoy when using it instead of my current one on the CD player.

concealer404

That card should have an SPDIF out. Use that.