First thing u gatta do if u want SQ is to get rid of your Polk Audio speakers

Jstas

arun1963 wrote: »

Must you puncture the balloon? Yes I know it was :rolleyes: It needed an ott response not an explanation. Mac must be right, on the sense of humour........and that is how its spelled. .......come on come on pass the ball......

Must you cause problems unnecessarily?

arun1963

et tu?

Zitro

I'm not huge into car audio; I have a Clarion system (HU and speaks, no sub/amp) only because my stock HU blew and I got a great price on getting the complete set installed. Not the best, but better than stock. There are so many interfering variables with the sound in a car, I don't know why people spend huge bucks on car audio; you are limited by the fact that you're in a car.

Then there's the "I love bass but nothing else" group. Them, I will never understand. It's not music if you have 2 15" subs and a 1200 watt amp cranked up and all you hear is bloated bass, that everyone else can hear, too.

exalted512

Zitro wrote: »

I'm not huge into car audio; I have a Clarion system (HU and speaks, no sub/amp) only because my stock HU blew and I got a great price on getting the complete set installed. Not the best, but better than stock. There are so many interfering variables with the sound in a car, I don't know why people spend huge bucks on car audio; you are limited by the fact that you're in a car.

Then there's the "I love bass but nothing else" group. Them, I will never understand. It's not music if you have 2 15" subs and a 1200 watt amp cranked up and all you hear is bloated bass, that everyone else can hear, too.

Maybe because its fun to install? Instead of plugging an amp in the wall and running speaker wires to the towers that set on the floor 2' from the amp!

Hardest thing about doing installs in the home is programming the remote to run everything!

I enjoy installing and overcoming obstacles, thats why I enjoy car audio.
-Cody

bigaudiofanatic

I hate those F**s as well so stupid. I agree with the limit is your car but that is why you have tuning to compensate for the cars environment.

arun1963

Zitro wrote: »

I don't know why people spend huge bucks on car audio; you are limited by the fact that you're in a car.

Yes but once you learn to tune around it.........

exalted512 wrote: »

I enjoy installing and overcoming obstacles, thats why I enjoy car audio. Cody

Bingo.

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

I hate those F**s as well so stupid. I agree with the limit is your car but that is why you have tuning to compensate for the cars environment.

What do you hate?

MacLeod

Zitro wrote: »

I don't know why people spend huge bucks on car audio; you are limited by the fact that you're in a car.

I don't understand why people spend $100 for a magic extension cord, or pay $700 for a set of 1 foot RCA cables, or thousands on tube amps, cable risers and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Home audio guys are the LAST people on earth that should be looking down their nose at the money car audio guys spend.

exalted512

MacLeod wrote: »

I don't understand why people spend $100 for a magic extension cord, or pay $700 for a set of 1 foot RCA cables, or thousands on tube amps, cable risers and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Home audio guys are the LAST people on earth that should be looking down their nose at the money car audio guys spend.

hey! my sand filled cable risers give me a wider sound stage and a more neutral sound!

Much more than my old lead-filled risers. Every time my sub hit my sound would distort!

I love my sand-filled glass cable risers, and at $70 each when i only needed 15, they were a steal!:p:p:p

-Cody

exalted512

arun1963 wrote: »

Bingo.

Yea, i bet none of the HA guys can build 4 sided boxes!;)
-Cody

arun1963

Aw shucks, popcorn time again. Thats twice in a night. Ya'll better not disappoint tmrw morn.

Zitro

MacLeod wrote: »

Home audio guys are the LAST people on earth that should be looking down their nose at the money car audio guys spend.

Oh I'm not criticizing anyone. It just seems strange how much people throw into a car audio system (like the $7k that kid claims he spent.) That's half the price of a car! And if you get into an accident or it gets stolen...but if tuning overcomes the restrictions of a car environment, then there ya go (I know little of car audio, so I can't argue that). I'd be afraid to be driving around with that much money invested in a car with all the idiots on the road. And I'm not picking sides. HT/HA guys can be pretty bad, too. I can think of plenty of better ways to spend $10k then on pieces of copper or isolation platforms, but some people do it. I'm not a "this camp or this camp" guy. My "realistic dream rig" will probably have no more than $7-8k worth of pieces combined. Some guys spend more than that on just a cd player. But hey, it's whatever makes you happy as an individual.

Zitro

exalted512 wrote: »

Maybe because its fun to install? Instead of plugging an amp in the wall and running speaker wires to the towers that set on the floor 2' from the amp!

Hardest thing about doing installs in the home is programming the remote to run everything!

I enjoy installing and overcoming obstacles, thats why I enjoy car audio.
-Cody

Very true, I bet there's a lot of satisfaction to be had with that. But I mean, so many of the people that I know at least who have put a lot of money into their cars system didn't do it themselves; they had a shop do it. What's the point then? I'm a car nut, and I feel the same about those who can run 11 sec 1/4 miles but had a shop do all of the work. Not impressive. Anyone can throw money at someone else if they have enough of it.

exalted512

Well, some people just have money to waste...and some people just spend a lot of time in their vehicles to justify the cost.
-Cody

KrazyMofo24

DSkip wrote: »

My system has a long ways to go, but at this point in time, my current setup is only approaching $1,000. That's damn close to what my SR5250's would have cost at MSRP. I was able to pick up a used SR104 from a Polk sponsored competitor for $60, the SR5250 for $300, my HU for $130, and my amp for $200. Even factoring in $100 for install materials and wires, that only adds up to $810. If it is ever stolen from my car, I will get about $2500 just to replace the components.

Some people spend major money to get everything they want. Hell, you can put together the best of anything if you got enough money. I see the true enthusiasts as the bang for your buck crowd.

I'd take the challenge of the car over the simplicity of the home system any day, but I'd still love to have me a nice home setup. My current setup set me back about $550, and thats just for the receiver and speakers. It can't touch my car for sound quality.

$2500 vs $550 plus time tuning it. It should sound better right?

You can get a 2.1 setup that sounds as good or better in home audio at $2500 MSRP or get the same type of deals for home audio.

However in home audio you have nothing but options, and always have ways to upgrade. Using a receiver in home audio is pretty similar to just trying to listen to your SR's through your head unit only.

Once you add a nice dedicated amp/preamp, an external DAC, nice cd player, interconnects, and room treatment on top of high quality speakers. It's hard to imagine a car audio system being able to compete.

I think the SR's sound great, and I know my setup has a lot of room for improvement. I've heard your's and it sounds very good.

I think there is very good reasons to have a nice car audio system. I like being able to enjoy my music away from home. However I think generally you can get a better sounding system per dollar spent in home audio, vs car audio. Because you have more options, and less limitations.

Headphones, home audio, and car audio all have their advantages and disadvantages I think it matters more what you prefer and where and when care about your music sounding best.

Zitro

KrazyMofo24 wrote: »

Headphones, home audio, and car audio all have their advantages and disadvantages I think it matters more what you prefer and where and when care about your music sounding best.

Some people prefer cans to loudspeakers. I love headphones, but they just can't reproduce music that gives me the sensation that loudspeakers can. I've heard Sennheiser HD650's fed by a musical fidelity x-can amp, connected to a nice Edge integrated and sourced by a very solid Arcam cd player. As good as it sounds, it didn't compete with several great loudspeakers I've heard. But, being in an apartment as I am, I always have good use for my Senn's.

arun1963

If I add up everything I've bought over the last 4 years or so, it comes to around 4K+. 20% to pioneer and rest to good old Polk. Could have built a good 2ch rig for this amt. The point is, on an average I spend 35+ hours per week in the car. I'd be lucky to get like 5 listening hours a week on a HA.

I've also been here long enough to know that yes, there is a sharp divide between the HA/CA here. Lets just accept that and move along. So while there are HA guys who would invest 3-5K in equipment and be perfectly happy with that and who have an open mind, there are also others would would spend crazy amts on equipment and glorified snake oil upgrades, cables, cable raisers etc etc. These are the folks who most often look down their aquiline noses and mock the very concept of stereo reproduction in a car.

Another thing, 99.9999% of car stereo installs give no bearing of whats really possible in a car environment. I guess that's a contributor as well.

So will a car audio rival the sda's 16' wide stage with ultra detailed imaging? No. You wont get the physical width but with the sr's or equivalent its possible to dial in great detailing, imaging and impact albeit on a smaller stage.

Nutshell. Live and let live. To each his/her own.

Topper

arun1963 wrote: »

The point is, on an average I spend 35+ hours per week in the car. I'd be lucky to get like 5 listening hours a week on a HA.

very good point

Jstas

I really hope that you folks don't honestly believe that price tags have anything to do with it?

And comparing used audio equipment by price is futile at best. $2500 worth of new gear can't really compete with $2500 worth of used gear. We've also gone over this ad nauseum in this forum. Smash mouth, drag out wars over this. Two different worlds, they cannot be compared. Besides, anybody who thinks a car stereo cannot rival a home stereo is just naive. Sure cars are a more hostile environment for audio but it can be done and quite often you can achieve levels of performance higher than a home stereo for less coin. Don't believe me? Go to a Polkfest at Polk HQ and beg them to run the B&W 801 vs. SR6500 test again.

MacLeod

First off I don't think anybody is saying car audio systems sound better than home audio systems. The best car audio system will never sound better than the best home audio setup.

However, a car audio system can sound as good or better than a lot of home audio setups. Home audio guys think car audio means throwing a set of 6x9's in the rear deck and off you go. Not hardly. That would be the guys that just want some decent tunes to listen to while driving to work.

Car audio nuts, like home audio nuts, go much further. I would love for you guys to hear Kirk Proffitts Acura or Matt Roberts Silverado or Steve Cooks Avalanche. These cars will rival most home audio rigs. Close your eyes when youre listening and its hard to believe you're in a car. But these also have complete custom installations, heavy processing power, strategically placed speakers and countless hours of tuning time.

THATS why we spend time and money on high end gear. It's the challenge of trying to get to that coveted spot where our systems sound more like home audio than car audio. It's the same reason the average golfer pays $500 for a set of clubs even though he'll never play pebble beach.

arun1963

Zitro wrote: »

Some people prefer cans to loudspeakers. I love headphones, but they just can't reproduce music that gives me the sensation that loudspeakers can. I've heard Sennheiser HD650's fed by a musical fidelity x-can amp, connected to a nice Edge integrated and sourced by a very solid Arcam cd player. As good as it sounds, it didn't compete with several great loudspeakers I've heard. But, being in an apartment as I am, I always have good use for my Senn's.

Apparently a lot of the sq competitors also use cans while tuning. But I'm with you in that cans would probably not give the same presence as speakers. But yeah for acute correction of L/R balance it might make sense.

KrazyMofo24

Jstas wrote: »

I really hope that you folks don't honestly believe that price tags have anything to do with it?

And comparing used audio equipment by price is futile at best. $2500 worth of new gear can't really compete with $2500 worth of used gear. We've also gone over this ad nauseum in this forum. Smash mouth, drag out wars over this. Two different worlds, they cannot be compared. Besides, anybody who thinks a car stereo cannot rival a home stereo is just naive. Sure cars are a more hostile environment for audio but it can be done and quite often you can achieve levels of performance higher than a home stereo for less coin. Don't believe me? Go to a Polkfest at Polk HQ and beg them to run the B&W 801 vs. SR6500 test again.

Did you pay attention? He compared his home audio vs car audio and how much he invested in each one. I never said new vs used...you did. I said he would need to find the same kind of deal new in home audio to match it. For example 70% off LSI's which is pretty much the same as 70% off the SR's.

So they set up a treated room with a seperate amp/pre amp, dac, etc vs a proper setup of SR6500's in a car?

I said that a home setup can equal a car audio setup for the same price. Also when you consider all the equipment, room treatment, speakers available for home audio it's hard to see car audio being able to match all of that. I know you can tune it, but you can tune home speakers as well.

Also Arun that's exactly why I said it matters more where you feel you going to listen to music most often when it's more important to you for it to sound the best.

KrazyMofo24

MacLeod wrote: »

First off I don't think anybody is saying car audio systems sound better than home audio systems. The best car audio system will never sound better than the best home audio setup.

However, a car audio system can sound as good or better than a lot of home audio setups. Home audio guys think car audio means throwing a set of 6x9's in the rear deck and off you go. Not hardly. That would be the guys that just want some decent tunes to listen to while driving to work.

Car audio nuts, like home audio nuts, go much further. I would love for you guys to hear Kirk Proffitts Acura or Matt Roberts Silverado or Steve Cooks Avalanche. These cars will rival most home audio rigs. Close your eyes when youre listening and its hard to believe you're in a car. But these also have complete custom installations, heavy processing power, strategically placed speakers and countless hours of tuning time.

THATS why we spend time and money on high end gear. It's the challenge of trying to get to that coveted spot where our systems sound more like home audio than car audio. It's the same reason the average golfer pays $500 for a set of clubs even though he'll never play pebble beach.

I agree with everything here.

Jstas

KrazyMofo24 wrote: »

Did you pay attention? He compared his home audio vs car audio and how much he invested in each one. I never said new vs used...you did. I said he would need to find the same kind of deal new in home audio to match it. For example 70% off LSI's which is pretty much the same as 70% off the SR's.

So they set up a treated room with a seperate amp/pre amp, dac, etc vs a proper setup of SR6500's in a car?

I said that a home setup can equal a car audio setup for the same price. Also when you consider all the equipment, room treatment, speakers available for home audio it's hard to see car audio being able to match all of that. I know you can tune it, but you can tune home speakers as well.

Also Arun that's exactly why I said it matters more where you feel you going to listen to music most often when it's more important to you for it to sound the best.

Good lord! Did I strike a nerve?

DSkip stated that he obtained $2500 worth of gear used for about $810. YOU stated that you could do far better for $2500 in the home audio realm. You know what? I tried to be nice but, you're wrong. Unless you are talking $2500 used in home audio but even then I have doubts that you could match the performance. I've spent about $3K USED in the home audio world. I'm rolling with an Adcom GFP-750 pre-amp and using a Denon DVD-2200 DVD/SACD player as a source with a pair of Carver Silver 7t's powering a pair of Carver Amazings. It's probably over $3K in total value and it sounds spectacular. But I've heard cars with Pioneer electronics and JBL speakers that put that set up to shame and it probably cost the guy about $1K less for NEW gear and my stuff is USED gear!

As far as the 801's vs SR's, it was in a room with very little sound treatment. The SR's were mounted on a display board much like what you would find in Radio Shack. Not exactly optimum for a car audio install and rather a detraction on the performance aspect. The 801's were on the floor. Both sets were set up to aim at the same sweet spot using the same amplification and signal source. The SR's blew away everyone, including a couple of audio magazine reviewers that were present, despite the fact that they were mounted on MDF boards and clamped, not bolted or screwed, clamped to the wall.

I have seen and listened to cars that will embarrass most of the home audio rigs on this forum. No special considerations needed, no special conditions to be met. Put the car up against the home system, with all your fancy power cables and room treatments and magic rocks and the car will win. And it will do it for less than half the cost in most cases.

Don't go getting butthurt because your world of what you know as "right" is challenged here in the car audio forums. Alot of these guys have far more experience in the car audio world and you are honestly still a novice at the home audio world comparatively. All of those insanely expensive components that you guys think are esoteric and unecessary? Yeah, that's the level a good chunk of these car audio systems are on.

Your $2500 price point for the home audio side? Yeah that'll cover the amp you would need and that's about it. Especially when I can get myself a head unit with 24 bit Burr-Brown DACs built in with no internal amplification, balanced pre-amplification outputs running at a 5 volt signal strength pushing A/B class amplification with regulated and conditioned power supplies pushing 250 watts per channel at 4 ohms on a full frequency response range with sensitivity and slew rates that'd make Bob Carver jealous for about $2500 total. That's being generous. The speakers I would need? Another $1500 or so.

The stuff is out there and much more attainable than the "high end" in home audio. This isn't a war of home vs. car. It's the experienced telling the inexperienced that what you know of is only the tip of the iceberg.

The rest of you car audio guys, quit making excuses. Seriously. If a home audio chucklehead wants to challenge your sensibilities because of your choice in hobby to pursue then the only thing you should respond to their questions with is "Because I enjoy it!" If that's not good enough for them then you can point out the equal amount of insanity and rationalization the home audio guy goes through to justify his choices.

I dabble in both sides. What I've spent on car audio over the years is in the tens of thousands of dollars. Home audio guys think that is insane but don't bat an eyelash at dropping a grand on a pre-amp that basically amounts to a volume control. There's no argument here and I find that it's the truly inexperienced that want to fight this fight more than those who have been around the hobby for a long, long time.

KrazyMofo24

Jstas wrote: »

Good lord! Did I strike a nerve?

DSkip stated that he obtained $2500 worth of gear used for about $810. YOU stated that you could do far better for $2500 in the home audio realm. You know what? I tried to be nice but, you're wrong. Unless you are talking $2500 used in home audio but even then I have doubts that you could match the performance. I've spent about $3K USED in the home audio world. I'm rolling with an Adcom GFP-750 pre-amp and using a Denon DVD-2200 DVD/SACD player as a source with a pair of Carver Silver 7t's powering a pair of Carver Amazings. It's probably over $3K in total value and it sounds spectacular. But I've heard cars with Pioneer electronics and JBL speakers that put that set up to shame and it probably cost the guy about $1K less for NEW gear and my stuff is USED gear!

As far as the 801's vs SR's, it was in a room with very little sound treatment. The SR's were mounted on a display board much like what you would find in Radio Shack. Not exactly optimum for a car audio install and rather a detraction on the performance aspect. The 801's were on the floor. Both sets were set up to aim at the same sweet spot using the same amplification and signal source. The SR's blew away everyone, including a couple of audio magazine reviewers that were present, despite the fact that they were mounted on MDF boards and clamped, not bolted or screwed, clamped to the wall.

I have seen and listened to cars that will embarrass most of the home audio rigs on this forum. No special considerations needed, no special conditions to be met. Put the car up against the home system, with all your fancy power cables and room treatments and magic rocks and the car will win. And it will do it for less than half the cost in most cases.

Don't go getting butthurt because your world of what you know as "right" is challenged here in the car audio forums. Alot of these guys have far more experience in the car audio world and you are honestly still a novice at the home audio world comparatively. All of those insanely expensive components that you guys think are esoteric and unecessary? Yeah, that's the level a good chunk of these car audio systems are on.

Your $2500 price point for the home audio side? Yeah that'll cover the amp you would need and that's about it. Especially when I can get myself a head unit with 24 bit Burr-Brown DACs built in with no internal amplification, balanced pre-amplification outputs running at a 5 volt signal strength pushing A/B class amplification with regulated and conditioned power supplies pushing 250 watts per channel at 4 ohms on a full frequency response range with sensitivity and slew rates that'd make Bob Carver jealous for about $2500 total. That's being generous. The speakers I would need? Another $1500 or so.

The stuff is out there and much more attainable than the "high end" in home audio. This isn't a war of home vs. car. It's the experienced telling the inexperienced that what you know of is only the tip of the iceberg.

The rest of you car audio guys, quit making excuses. Seriously. If a home audio chucklehead wants to challenge your sensibilities because of your choice in hobby to pursue then the only thing you should respond to their questions with is "Because I enjoy it!" If that's not good enough for them then you can point out the equal amount of insanity and rationalization the home audio guy goes through to justify his choices.

I dabble in both sides. What I've spent on car audio over the years is in the tens of thousands of dollars. Home audio guys think that is insane but don't bat an eyelash at dropping a grand on a pre-amp that basically amounts to a volume control. There's no argument here and I find that it's the truly inexperienced that want to fight this fight more than those who have been around the hobby for a long, long time.

No one is **** lol. I never claimed to be an expert, I'm just stating my opinion based on my experience nothing wrong with that last time I checked. Also I don't mind responses like these which is why I do it, because I do get some more insight from people who have had more experience on both sides.

Anyways...I'm going to look in to that head unit you are referring to...I'm thinking that's going to help out my SR's a lot more.

arun1963

KrazyMofo24 wrote: »

Also Arun that's exactly why I said it matters more where you feel you going to listen to music most often when it's more important to you for it to sound the best.

Of the 35+ hours, I'm on the road for like 30. For these 30 hours it sounds about ok. Tons of cancellations. I would need to invest around a $1K in damping to improve things by a factor of 2-3dbs. Ain't doing that too soon. The balance 5-6 hours, parked, no ambient noise....different experience.

Go listen to Macs car. You'll get an idea of what I'm bleating about.

arun1963

KrazyMofo24 wrote: »

Anyways...I'm going to look in to that head unit you are referring to...I'm thinking that's going to help out my SR's a lot more.

Do your ears a favour get the pio p-800/880 prs.

KrazyMofo24

arun1963 wrote: »

Do your ears a favour get the pio p-800/880 prs.

Thanks so far looks like it's discontinued haven't seen a site with it in stock yet. I haven't checked ebay...are there any other ones similar?

Jstas

arun1963 wrote: »

Do your ears a favour get the pio p-800/880 prs.

That's nice and all but they are out of production and hard to find.


If you want a REALLY snazzy Pioneer, get this DEX-P99RS.

It's only $1200 but, dang, is it ever sexay!

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_130DEXP99R/Pioneer-DEX-P99RS.html?showAll=N&tp=5684



Some Info:

Details:

*
General features:
* CD receiver/preamp (no built-in amplifier, external amps required)
* plays CDs, CD-Rs, and CD-RWs, including discs loaded with MP3, WMA, and AAC files (will not play Digital Rights-protected music files)
* motorized, detachable face with white OEL display
* copper-plated chassis
*
Audio features:
* four 24-bit DACs and 32-bit digital signal processor
* 31-band equalizer with independent right and left channel adjustments
* Auto EQ with supplied microphone
* Auto TA time alignment
* three level Sound Retriever for compressed music files
* high- and low-pass filters
*
Expandability:
* built-in iPod control — cable included
* compatible with optional Pioneer HD Radio tuner, Bluetooth module, satellite radio
* inputs: front auxiliary input, rear USB input (for Windows Media devices, USB storage devices, and iPod)
* outputs: 8-channel preamp outputs (5-volt highs, mids, lows, subwoofer)

Vital

Well this thread went way off original post so let me bring it back AND take it a step further.

Just created a thread in another caraudio forum (if it's not allowed by this forum's rules feel free to delete my post mods, i'm not sure) asking for thoughts and feedback on Polk Audio. Let's see how this one will turn out.

http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/showthread.php?t=44635

KrazyMofo24

Jstas wrote: »

That's nice and all but they are out of production and hard to find.


If you want a REALLY snazzy Pioneer, get this DEX-P99RS.

It's only $1200 but, dang, is it ever sexay!

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_130DEXP99R/Pioneer-DEX-P99RS.html?showAll=N&tp=5684



Some Info:

That looks very nice. At $1200 won't be able to get it any time soon, but definitely something to look in to.