Help a noob build a LSi system...

E-ride
E-ride Posts: 25
edited August 2010 in Speakers
Hey everyone, been lurking around here for a while now and finally decided to join up and ask a few specific questions. I am looking to build a Home Theater specific system using LSI components. I got a smoking deal on some LSI25's and will be picking up the LSIC, and LSIfx surrounds soon and probably a dsw micro pro 4000 sub. Will be running a 5.1 system.

Here is where I need your help...I need power, big time power from what I am hearing. This is what I was thinking, please feel free to critique.

Buying a Emotiva XPA3 to power the 25's and the center. (Approx $750 landed-I'm in Canada)
Upgrading my amp to either the Denon AVR3310 or the MarantzSR6004 for my reciever, both around $1000-$1500.

What do you all think? Would you suggest a different receiver or amp within similar price points? Thanks in advance guys, can't wait to get her up and running!

Cheers

E
Post edited by E-ride on
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    What AVR are you running right now? If it has preouts and has the connectivity you need, I'd recommend a separate amp. Depending on the AVR, you may or may not need all 5 channels driven by an external amplifier.

    The Emotiva gear is a good pricepoint new, but you can do much better for the same price if you purchase used. Outlaw, Sunfire, Adcom, Parasound, Rotel... just to name a few.
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    I have an entry level Onkyo AVR right now, no pre-outs and does not do True-HD or up converting. I think an new AVR is a must for sure.
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited June 2010
    personally - I would go with a less expensive AVR (with pre-outs) and a nice 5 channel amp. (preferrably used)

    Welcome to Club Polk.
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    personally - I would go with a less expensive AVR (with pre-outs) and a nice 5 channel amp. (preferrably used)

    Welcome to Club Polk.

    Thanks so much, would I loose out on better processing if I was to go with a cheaper AVR? I have no problem running a 5 channel amp, but would need pre outs for the amp, and would like true hd for my blu-rays. Any suggestions?
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited June 2010
    Consider the Harman/Kardon AVR 254. It does it all and includes preouts for $300 here:

    http://stores.ebay.com/harmanaudio

    (Don't know about shipping though - it only mentions US)
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    personally - I would go with a less expensive AVR (with pre-outs) and a nice 5 channel amp. (preferrably used)

    Welcome to Club Polk.

    + 1.


    01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
    02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's and SUNFIRE Cinema Grand
    03) OPPO BDP-83SE Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
    04) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
    05) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
    06) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
    07) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
    08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
    09) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
    10) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
    11) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
    12) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround back speakers)
    13) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround back speakers)
    14) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=98096 (Not updated)
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    So I wouldn't miss out on SQ by going with a cheaper AVR? I was told the audio processing is much better with the better receivers?
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited June 2010
    E-ride wrote: »
    So I wouldn't miss out on SQ by going with a cheaper AVR? I was told the audio processing is much better with the better receivers?

    With the same decoding (i.e. - DTS Master Audio) and an external amp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between most lower-mid and upper-mid level recievers.

    Just my opinion.
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    What other ARV's would you guys suggest? Thanks for the help!
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Well, the inexpensive AVR probably will sound good, but there is no denying the sound could be better. This is what I am looking at for a pre/pro upgrade. Maybe later this year if things work out.


    http://www.caryaudio.com/products/cinema/cinema11a.html

    http://hometheaterreview.com/cary-audio-design-cinema-11a-home-theater-processor-reviewed/

    Wow, that looks sweet but quite a bit more than I am hoping to spend. Thanks for the links though.
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    E-ride, what ARE you looking to spend? We can give you some awesome suggestions based on your budget. Sounds like that Onkyo will need to go either way...
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    Would love to stay below $1000 for a AVR if possible. Found the Denon 3310 on Amazon for for $650 refurb, which seemed like a great price. But been reading some issues with HDMI handshaking especially with Samsung gear. I have a Samsund Blu-Ray player and Tv.
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    Do you insist on having new? Is $1000 including the price of an amplifier? I honestly think you're better off cutting back on the AVR, as long as it has the connections you need and preouts. Then look at a separate amp such as the ones listed below. Your ears will thank you...

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1281252558&/Outlaw-7500
    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1280323824&/Sunfire-Cinema-Grand
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    Don't need new, was thinking $1000 or less for the AVR and around 750 for the amp? So you think I would have much better results with a cheaper AVR and a better quality amp in the end??
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    Without a doubt. Your speakers will starve!! Get them a 200w/channel @8ohm amp and rest easy. You can always upgrade the receiver down the road if you need to. A quality amp is the backbone to a hifi surround rig.
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    Do the rear LSifx's need dedicated amp power as well?
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    Not as crucial, but they're still based on the LSi platform and prefer some good clean power.
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    Good to know, thanks for the help Dane. Apart from the HK AVR what else would be a good start for me to run my dedicated amp with? Say around $500 or so?
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    Onkyo TX-SR707 for $549: http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=TX-SR707&modelid=51&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=1

    Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH for $575: http://cgi.ebay.com/Pioneer-Elite-A-V-Receiver-VSX-21-THX-110-x-7-Brand-New-/300434437493?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item45f349b575#ht_623wt_967

    Or you can always check Craigslist for a good deal...
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    Is the Denon 3310 a decent AVR though? Any reasons why I shouldn't get it? It's approx the same price as the Onkyo and the Pioneer, but seems like a better unit?
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    Will the Denon work? Yes. Is it a bad unit? Not at all. Is it superior to the Onkyo and Pioneer aforementioned (which are $100 and $75 less, respectively)? That is debateable.

    If you have your heart set on the 3310, get it. You won't be disappointed. I was just giving you less expensive alternatives (not including the HK already stated)
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  • jlamo
    jlamo Posts: 3
    edited June 2010
    nad t755 is nice plus with 85 watts (real watts) you can run 5.1 without purchase of a amp right now depending on speakers and I will tell you that it like no other 85 watts I have used .
    nad m5 ,lg bd380 ,nad t755, musical fidelity a5 intergrated, thiel scs3 center,thiel cs2 2,and thiel powerplane 1.2 for surr and a mirage 10
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    The only reason why I am leaning towards the Denon, is a good friend of mine knows the direct service guys here in town so if I ever had issues it would be a breeze getting help.

    Seems like there is a million opinions though... I have been reading reviews non stop the past week or so.
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    Yep, you're going to hear a lot of things from a lot of people. The general consensus at ClubPolk is throw your money into a nice amp, not into a receiver that has more bells and whistles than you need.
    If you need new and want Denon, the 3310 is your best option as it's the first in their line with preouts.
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited June 2010
    dane_peterson wrote: »
    Yep, you're going to hear a lot of things from a lot of people. The general consensus at ClubPolk is throw your money into a nice amp, not into a receiver that has more bells and whistles than you need.
    If you need new and want Denon, the 3310 is your best option as it's the first in their line with preouts.
    The higher up the AVR chain you go, the more you're going to be paying for amp sections that you're inevitably not going to use. In my book, that's throwing $$ away. I agree with dane - go with the lowest model that has pre-outs. You're still going to get all the processing you want and then some. I recently dropped back from a $900 AVR to a sub-$300 model (the one I mentioned above). When all was said and done, there really was nothing more in the higher priced model that the lower price one can't do. Ok, maybe HD radio, but I never listen to broadcast radio at home.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited June 2010
    I don't have much to add to what has been already said....except that I have heard the Marantz 6004 here in China...and if 'music' is a concern. It is one of the more 'musical' AVRs in that price range for a surround receiver.

    Otherwise I'd go with the Pioneer Elite VSX21 or the new Pioneer VSX1120 or an Onkyo TX-SR708...those Onkyos have fantastic 'feature sets' in their price range! Both 'new' units have HDMI 1.4--pretty future proof.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,234
    edited June 2010
    dane_peterson wrote: »
    Will the Denon work? Yes. Is it a bad unit? Not at all. Is it superior to the Onkyo and Pioneer aforementioned (which are $100 and $75 less, respectively)? That is debateable.

    If you have your heart set on the 3310, get it. You won't be disappointed. I was just giving you less expensive alternatives (not including the HK already stated)

    My thoughts exactly. You've received some very good advice IMO. Good luck. Sounds like you'll have a great system.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2010
    +1 Denon


    01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
    02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's and SUNFIRE Cinema Grand
    03) OPPO BDP-83SE Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
    04) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
    05) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
    06) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
    07) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
    08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
    09) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
    10) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
    11) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
    12) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround back speakers)
    13) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround back speakers)
    14) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=98096 (Not updated)
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  • E-ride
    E-ride Posts: 25
    edited June 2010
    Based on all of your advice, I decided o go with the Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, found it brand new locally for under $600. Will be a great platform for my system. Looking at used Sunfire 5 Ch amps now.
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    Congrats! An excellent choice... keep us updated!
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