Another Ebay/Paypal disaster

BrettT1

Oh boy, did I mess up. I sold an item for $360 on Ebay. The guy paid via Paypal immediately. I shipped the item first thing Tuesday via USPS priority mail with tracking and delivery confirmation. I watched the packages progress and it was marked delivered yesterday morning. This morning I got a message from the buyer who said... I didn't receive it. I called paypal and they basically said because I didn't get a signature I was beat. Hard to eat $360 in these tough times.

My fault I guess. The first thing that came to mind was "getting something for nothing"

bklynNupe

:mad:
That really sucks!
Do you suspect the guy was trying to put one over, what do you think happened?
Is the dirty lesson, always get a signature?

Kex

BrettT1 wrote: »

... I called paypal and they basically said because I didn't get a signature I was beat. Hard to eat $360 in these tough times. ...

That's really unfortunate, to put it mildly. FYI, and everyone else too, I had a PayPal "incident" in the other direction (where I had to return a faulty item), and figured out that a signature is required as proof of delivery for anything over $250 (IIRC). Under that amount, a tracking number is good enough.

Are you certain you have no recourse? Have you been allowed to contact the buyer by phone?

danger boy

this is good info.. i rarely get a signature when I ship stuff, but now I will.. small price to pay for the satisfaction of having to file a claim later if something goes wrong.

sorry BrettT1. I feel for ya.. none of us likes to lose items of value like that.

also, if left on his doorstep.. someone could have come by and picked it up and ran off with it.

leroyjr1

Did you try contacting usps?

heiney9

BrettT1 wrote: »

Oh boy, did I mess up. I sold an item for $360 on Ebay. The guy paid via Paypal immediately. I shipped the item first thing Tuesday via USPS priority mail with tracking and delivery confirmation. I watched the packages progress and it was marked delivered yesterday morning. This morning I got a message from the buyer who said... I didn't receive it. I called paypal and they basically said because I didn't get a signature I was beat. Hard to eat $360 in these tough times.

My fault I guess. The first thing that came to mind was "getting something for nothing"

Why would you contact ebay or paypal? You need to contact the shipping company. I had that happen with a pair of LSi's. I was the buyer and I had to wait for the seller to initiate a claim with the UPS who was the shipper. After about 6 weeks it was resolved, the seller got his money and I got mine.

In truth you are responsible, but you now have to go after the shipping company and they will investigate. So at this point I wouldn't return any money until you file a claim w/the shipping company and that claim is final even if it goes against you.

Good luck

H9

P.s. Delivery confirmation gives you a strong advantage.

WilliamM2

If you think he actually got it, contact the post master in his area. Using the postal service to commit fraud is illegal.

thuffman03

That sucks. This is why I won't sell anything on ebay.

heiney9

thuffman03 wrote: »

That sucks. This is why I won't sell anything on ebay.

Yeah well, one needs to be informed and know what your avenues for recourse are before selling anything. I get mildly amused at all these threads about stuff like this. Doesn't anyone read the user agreements before accepting or sending hundered and hundreds of dollars? :rolleyes:

Also, all is not lost here the OP obviously hasn't a clue what his rights and recourse are. Threads like these just perpetuate the notion that buying/selling on-line is evil. It's not, as long as you accept the risks (there is always a certain amount of risk) and know what the hell is going on.

I buy/sell on ebay all the time. I know what the rules are and what my avenues for recourse are and I've had a few issues and all have been resolved equitably and I have not lost anything.

People need to read and re-read and then re-read all the user guidelines for both ebay and paypal. Then take a look at what's covered by each carrier you can choose from.

Sure, jumping in trying to sell something without doing any research into it, that *would* be stupid.

ViperZ

thuffman03 wrote: »

That sucks. This is why I won't sell anything on ebay.

LOL. This is actually funny.

TNRabbit

Where was it delivered to? I'm sure a few CP members in that area can arrange a "smack-down"....

gwh

I shipped a guy some hubcaps once via UPS, tracking # said they were there, buyer said they were not. Contacted UPS and after a little time on the phone with a nice lady she was able to find out the package was placed in the bed of a truck that was on blocks on or near the guys property. Buyer did find them in that location. Package had been out in the elements a few days but they were hubcaps and all was good.

Not sure how the USPS rolls but they might be able to help you out.




G

fossy

I would be getting all over the USPS .....sorry ya have had this happen Brett ... did they just leave it on the doorstep & maybe someone took it ???? get in contact with the actual post office that it was delivered out of .... I would try to get the delivery person's name ..... anything but eat 360

vmaxer

fossy wrote: »

I would be getting all over the USPS .....sorry ya have had this happen Brett ... did they just leave it on the doorstep & maybe someone took it ???? get in contact with the actual post office that it was delivered out of .... I would try to get the delivery person's name ..... anything but eat 360

+1

I would also file a claim. Maybe they have knowledge that this person has this type of problem from time to time:eek:

FiveORacing

"delivery confirmation" ?????????? Sounds like the USPS confirms delivery. That means it's a theft from him and he's out the $360. Is paypal refunding the money???

I'd dispute this all the way. The carrier will be asked what exactly he did for delivery and the answer may be I handed it through the door.

BrettT1

Thanks for all the replies. I never would've believed it, but, the buyer said he was off work today and waited for the mailman. The mailman said he put it in the wrong mailbox and the guy got it!! I was relieved. I had already contacted USPS and they were going to "investigate". Anyhow, the buyer left positive feedback and the money was released.

Note: Anything $250 or higher must have a signature.

I'm glad the buyer was honest or I could have been easily ripped off.

vmaxer

Well, another happy ending:D

Sherardp

Glad it worked out and good info passed along the way.

Kex

BrettT1 wrote: »

... Note: Anything $250 or higher must have a signature. ...

Please take note, those of you buying and selling with PayPal and/or eBay!

Glad there was another happy ending on C.P.!

FiveORacing

BrettT1 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I never would've believed it, but, the buyer said he was off work today and waited for the mailman. The mailman said he put it in the wrong mailbox and the guy got it!! I was relieved. I had already contacted USPS and they were going to "investigate". Anyhow, the buyer left positive feedback and the money was released.

Note: Anything $250 or higher must have a signature.

I'm glad the buyer was honest or I could have been easily ripped off.

Glad it worked out. I'm wondering though (cop that I am) if he just got a case of the nerves and dropped the charade after the "invest" emails started coming in?

heiney9

Kex wrote: »

Please take note, those of you buying and selling with PayPal and/or eBay!

Glad there was another happy ending on C.P.!

Ummmm...........yeah that;s not an ebay or paypal rule, it's in the tariffs for the USPS, and FedEX and UPS are different. Has nothing to do with ebay, paypal or your CC.

Kex

heiney9 wrote: »

Ummmm...........yeah that;s not an ebay or paypal rule, it's in the tariffs for the USPS, and FedEX and UPS are different. Has nothing to do with ebay, paypal or your CC.

These conditions may have changed, but, from the PayPal resolution center (under the heading outlined in bold on line 1):

Comply with PayPal’s shipping requests in a timely manner.

For Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) Claims, PayPal may require you to ship the item back to the Seller - or to PayPal - or to a third party at your expense, and to provide proof of delivery.

For transactions that total less than $250, proof of delivery is confirmation that can be viewed online and includes: the delivery address, delivery date, and the URL to the shipping company’s web site if you’ve selected “Other” in the shipping drop down menu. For transactions that total $250 or more, you must get signature confirmation of delivery.

These are still on their website today, and they were the conditions specifically applied to my successful dispute just over a year ago. The relationship between eBay and PayPal has changed recently, so eBay may be applying different rules now.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?&cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US#13. Protection for Buyers.

FedEx and UPS insurance requirements are a different matter ... and may be limited to $100, unless you pay extra for coverage. Not sure about USPS, but AFIK, Express Mail is automatically insured up to $100 against loss or damage.

For anyone that wants to investigate further, there is this interesting bit of information (no affiliation, and information not verified. This is not an official eBay document, but information provided by another eBay member).

http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to-win-a-Paypal-dispute-for-Buyers-and-Sellers_W0QQugidZ10000000001676577

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote: »

Why would you contact ebay or paypal? You need to contact the shipping company. I had that happen with a pair of LSi's. I was the buyer and I had to wait for the seller to initiate a claim with the UPS who was the shipper. After about 6 weeks it was resolved, the seller got his money and I got mine.

In truth you are responsible, but you now have to go after the shipping company and they will investigate. So at this point I wouldn't return any money until you file a claim w/the shipping company and that claim is final even if it goes against you.

Good luck

H9

P.s. Delivery confirmation gives you a strong advantage.

WilliamM2 wrote: »

If you think he actually got it, contact the post master in his area. Using the postal service to commit fraud is illegal.

I've had Delivery Confirmations where the buyer said he didn't receive it. After notifying the post master at the buyers local post office he, after some investigation, found that it was indeed delivered to the buyers address. I contacted the buyer and told him he was under investigation by the USPS. He wrote me back saying he made a mistake, that the package was delivered to his next door neighbor and he did in fact receive it. Yeah right! He was trying to get something for nothing and when the heat was on crapped his pants and changed his tune.

CONTACT THE POST MASTER OF THE LOCAL PO AND LET THE BUYER KNOW YOU ARE WILLING TO HAVE THEM ARREST HIM FOR MAIL FRAUD. I bet he changes his tune real quick.

I had a similiar problem with a seller whom I paid with a USPS money order. Same out come as above.

EDIT; whoops I just read the rest of the posts. Glad things worked out. I always use the USPS for shipping because they are really on the ball about tracking down deliveries and fraud.

heiney9

Kex wrote: »

These conditions may have changed, but, from the PayPal resolution center (under the heading outlined in bold on line 1):



These are still on their website today, and they were the conditions specifically applied to my successful dispute just over a year ago. The relationship between eBay and PayPal has changed recently, so eBay may be applying different rules now.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?&cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US#13. Protection for Buyers.

FedEx and UPS insurance requirements are a different matter ... and may be limited to $100, unless you pay extra for coverage. Not sure about USPS, but AFIK, Express Mail is automatically insured up to $100 against loss or damage.

For anyone that wants to investigate further, there is this interesting bit of information (no affiliation, and information not verified. This is not an official eBay document, but information provided by another eBay member).

http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to-win-a-Paypal-dispute-for-Buyers-and-Sellers_W0QQugidZ10000000001676577

My response was to be reimbursed by the shipper, not Paypal or Ebay. But, it does sound like you would have some recourse from these types of things outside of the shipper by ebay/paypal as long as you follow their guidelines.

It's always been procedure that if it's a shipping issue then you deal with the shipper. Now I realize many choose to print a shipping label through Paypal and that sets up a whole other set of guidelines. I have my own FED EX account so I don't ship through paypal if it's a larger item.

Personally, anything over $200 I automatically require a signature for extra precaution. I want proof it arrived and someone signed for it.

Anyways Kex you are right, but I was referring to the actual shipping companies policy and I'm glad it worked out for the OP.

H9

dkg999

The one advantage the USPS has over other shipping companies is Postal Inspectors. A Postal Inspector has pretty much the same powers as a US Marshall. The other advantage is that defrauding someone when a USPS service is involved is a federal offense, that tends to get people's attention.

Glad to see this was resolved successfully!