Good deal on record cleaning machine

vmaxer

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstwek&1280676184&/VPI-16.5-record-cleaning-machi

Trying again...

I found this one a few hours after ordering a new one...:o

jerryj12

That is a good deal.:)

vmaxer

jerryj12 wrote: »

That is a good deal.:)

Yep, I had already ordered this kit when I found the one on Audiogon

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HW-165P1

It is a good deal for a new one I think

jerryj12

vmaxer wrote: »

Yep, I had already ordered this kit when I found the one on Audiogon

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HW-165P1

It is a good deal for a new one I think

Looks like a good deal to me.
Will you bring it over next time you are down, and clean all my albums? :eek:

hearingimpared

It's a great deal and I suggest you fellas that are new to vinyl and are seriously considering staying with it, jump on that VPI RCM!

madmax

The new one is a good deal but I would have got the Agon one. Thats just me though. New is good too and for the small difference in cost its probably good insurance, I wouldn't feel too bad. The bottles of cleaner are worth about $60 and the brush is over $30, not sure about the replacement mat.

hearingimpared

For the savings of the one on the gon, you can get all the accessories and fluids you could possibly need and not get anywhere close to the cost of a new one.

This is a really good buy.

vmaxer

madmax wrote: »

The new one is a good deal but I would have got the Agon one. Thats just me though. New is good too and for the small difference in cost its probably good insurance, I wouldn't feel too bad. The bottles of cleaner are worth about $60 and the brush is over $30, not sure about the replacement mat.

The mat is around $14.00 and the record sleeves are 25 to 30, so it is about $100.00 in extras, plus I got free shipping since it was my first order;)

hearingimpared wrote: »

For the savings of the one on the gon, you can get all the accessories and fluids you could possibly need and not get anywhere close to the cost of a new one.

This is a really good buy.

If I had seen the one on Audiogon first I would have got it:o

hearingimpared

vmaxer wrote: »

The mat is around $14.00 and the record sleeves are 25 to 30, so it is about $100.00 in extras, plus I got free shipping since it was my first order;)



If I had seen the one on Audiogon first I would have got it:o

Bro, make sure you get a couple of extra vacuum tubes and brushes so you can switch them out when you are using different fluids in different steps.

vmaxer

jerryj12 wrote: »

Looks like a good deal to me.
Will you bring it over next time you are down, and clean all my albums? :eek:

Maybe I just load the LP's up and bring them home with me so I can really give them the attention they deserve:D

We tend to get off track at your place:eek:

I promise to return them sometime:p:cool:

vmaxer

hearingimpared wrote: »

Bro, make sure you get a couple of extra vacuum tubes and brushes so you can switch them out when you are using different fluids in different steps.

:eek::eek::eek:

Okay, where does it end With the cleaning brush in the kit I will have 3 MFSL brushes. I guess I will use the cleaner with the same vacuum tube for a while since they are $30.00 each:o

madmax

vmaxer wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

Okay, where does it end With the cleaning brush in the kit I will have 3 MFSL brushes. I guess I will use the cleaner with the same vacuum tube for a while since they are $30.00 each:o

Oh, it hasn't even started yet.

I don't worry much about different brushes and tubes and stuff and here is my reasoning:
I did buy an extra tube after the felt on the first one came off. It has a notch where it plugs into the VPI and I cut another notch on the old tube so it would mount upside down with the vacuum slot on the top. After I use one cleaner and decide to use a second I pop this thing on and vacuum my brush. Thats good enough for me anyway. Beyond that I try to do a bunch of the same type cleaning rather than jump from step to step. In other words if I'm going to use the super deep cleaner I do it to a bunch of them, not just one. After thats all done I go to another step. Its not below me to do one step, play it and do another step next time. Call me sloppy but the records get some amount of cleaning at various times when I feel like it.
madmax

thsmith

Sale pending on the Gon one.

Hope someone here got it.

hearingimpared

vmaxer wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

Okay, where does it end With the cleaning brush in the kit I will have 3 MFSL brushes. I guess I will use the cleaner with the same vacuum tube for a while since they are $30.00 each:o

Three brushes are plenty to avoid cross contamination. You many want to consider buying just one more tube. If you first clean a used or new record there are a lot of nasties in the groove and yes I said new ones. If you vacuum those nasties some of them will stay on the velvet lips on the tube. Using a second when doing your followup rinse or chemical rinse will ensure there is no chance of cross contamination.

Just some food for thought.

hearingimpared

madmax wrote: »

Oh, it hasn't even started yet.

I don't worry much about different brushes and tubes and stuff and here is my reasoning:
I did buy an extra tube after the felt on the first one came off. It has a notch where it plugs into the VPI and I cut another notch on the old tube so it would mount upside down with the vacuum slot on the top. After I use one cleaner and decide to use a second I pop this thing on and vacuum my brush. Thats good enough for me anyway. Beyond that I try to do a bunch of the same type cleaning rather than jump from step to step. In other words if I'm going to use the super deep cleaner I do it to a bunch of them, not just one. After thats all done I go to another step. Its not below me to do one step, play it and do another step next time. Call me sloppy but the records get some amount of cleaning at various times when I feel like it.
madmax

Careful with the Super Deep cleaner Chuck. Leaving it on a record without rinsing it off will cause the vinyl and grooves to become brittle.

vmaxer

thsmith wrote: »

Sale pending on the Gon one.

Hope someone here got it.

I didn't think it would last long;)

vmaxer

hearingimpared wrote: »

Careful with the Super Deep cleaner Chuck. Leaving it on a record without rinsing it off will cause the vinyl and grooves to become brittle.

Good info...THANKS!!

madmax

I believe it makes the grooves a little more brittle just by using it at all because I hear a difference that makes me feel that way, even when using the wash afterwards. I pretty much stay away from it these days and just use the wash but I have used it by itself a few times. Unless there seems to be a problem I only use the wash. I'm still doing things a little differently time to time depending on my mood and the results.

The biggest thing I've learned is to let the wash do its job. I apply it with a sprayer then use the brush to spread it out. To do this I let it sit on the record using no force other than the weight of the brush until the full record remains covered with the fluid. This can take a lot of revolutions but giving it plenty of time before vacuuming seems to make the lp much quieter.

billbillw

Whenever a VPI shows up on Audiogon for less than $400, it is usually snapped up within a couple hours. I'm sure this one for $300 was spoken for within 30 minutes.

Erik Tracy

Anyone see this record cleaner?
http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Record-Cleaner

Would this be scoffed at as totally inadequate?

The budget is tight these days - so while I'd love to pop for a VPI RCM, this poor man's version is about all I could afford....or should I skip this?

madmax

I'd scoff at it being totally inadequate however better than nothing.

Erik Tracy

madmax wrote: »

I'd scoff at it being totally inadequate however better than nothing.

So, I would be subjected to the derisive snickers of the more affluent and shunned at vinyl parties and forums?

hearingimpared

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Anyone see this record cleaner?
http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Record-Cleaner

Would this be scoffed at as totally inadequate?

The budget is tight these days - so while I'd love to pop for a VPI RCM, this poor man's version is about all I could afford....or should I skip this?

Ben had a thread going about that piece.

Erik there are plenty of "poor man's versions" of RCMs that you can make on your own with little money and very little know how. PM bikerboy (Jeff) he made one for next to nothing and according to him, and I believe him, it works extremely well.

That one at Needle Doctor I could pick apart and critize it in many ways but we are not supposed to brand bash, so, I'll leave it at that.

billbillw

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Anyone see this record cleaner?
http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Record-Cleaner

Would this be scoffed at as totally inadequate?

The budget is tight these days - so while I'd love to pop for a VPI RCM, this poor man's version is about all I could afford....or should I skip this?

The Spin Clean works very well at cleaning, but you have to have a way to get it dry quickly (otherwise, residue stays on the record). I did it with rags/microfiber cloths for a long time, but then I was given a DIY vacuum and it works much better that way. Clean with the spin clean, put it on the vacuum to dry it. I'd put the results up against what you can get with VPI or Nitty Gritty.

hearingimpared

billbillw wrote: »

The Spin Clean works very well at cleaning, but you have to have a way to get it dry quickly. I did it with rags/microfiber cloths for a long time, but then I was given a DIY vacuum and it works much better that way. Clean with the spin clean, put it on the vacuum to dry it. I'd put the results up against what you can get with VPI or Nitty Gritty.

Did you change the trough out everytime you used it for each record Bill? I would think cross contamination would be a big issue with that thing.

did it with rags/microfiber cloths for a long time, but then I was given a DIY vacuum and it works much better that way. Clean with the spin clean, put it on the vacuum to dry it.

Bill you know I respect your knoweldge and opinions on most everything but without a vacuum that thing can't possibly hold its own againt the VPIs or Nitty Grittys ( I know you said with a vacuum). How much more would a vacuum cost and it would seem using that thing as the spinner in one hand and a vacuum in the other it would be quite cumbersome.

billbillw

Joe,
The nittys and VPI's cleaning ability is based solely on how well you can scrub the grunge out. I know you go to great effort to scrub them prior to vacuuming. The vacuum part just removes the grunge that was loosened up by the cleaning effort.

The key in any method is to not let anything dry on the record and the VPI is great with that.

I'll argue that the pure scrubbing/cleaning ability of the Spin Clean immersion system is as good or better than what you can do with any other method. It uses an enzyme based cleaner, wetting agents, and agents to aid in flocculation. The brushes are very tight and clean both sides simultaneously with just a few spins.

When I clean, I do one record at a time in a two step process. First, put it in the spin clean, spin it about 3 times in one direction. I usually go an extra mile and spin it 3 times in the opposite direction as well. Then I pull the record out and lay one side on a clean towel just for a second to get the excess water off. Then I slap it down on the DIY vacuum and hand spin it until that side is dry, then flip the record and vacuum the other side. Then straight into a poly lined sleeve. I would not call it cumbersome, just tedious because all the spinning is by hand.

You asked whether I change the solution with each record. No, I usually do about 10 records per bath. Since the solution has good agents for keeping the contaminants in solution or floccing them out, it continues to work very well through 10records. The manual says you can do 20, but I don't like going beyond 10.

Is that as convenient as a VPI? No, but it only cost me ~$80 vs $400 (average price of used VPI). The DIY record vacuum was given to me by my brother who bought a VPI. I've listened to records cleaned on his VPI (many of my own records). I've listened to records that I've cleaned using the Spin Clean/DIY. They sound every bit as good as the ones that were cleaned on the VPI.

Believe me, if I ever had the chance to buy a good VPI for $300 or less, I probably would, but I can't justify spending $400+, especially since I haven't been buying much new vinyl lately. More than half of my vinyl has already been cleaned.

Erik Tracy

billbillw wrote: »

Joe,
The nittys and VPI's cleaning ability is based solely on how well you can scrub the grunge out. I know you go to great effort to scrub them prior to vacuuming. The vacuum part just removes the grunge that was loosened up by the cleaning effort.

The key in any method is to not let anything dry on the record and the VPI is great with that.

I'll argue that the pure scrubbing/cleaning ability of the Spin Clean immersion system is as good or better than what you can do with any other method. It uses an enzyme based cleaner, wetting agents, and agents to aid in flocculation. The brushes are very tight and clean both sides simultaneously with just a few spins.

When I clean, I do one record at a time in a two step process. First, put it in the spin clean, spin it about 3 times in one direction. I usually go an extra mile and spin it 3 times in the opposite direction as well. Then I pull the record out and lay one side on a clean towel just for a second to get the excess water off. Then I slap it down on the DIY vacuum and hand spin it until that side is dry, then flip the record and vacuum the other side. Then straight into a poly lined sleeve. I would not call it cumbersome, just tedious because all the spinning is by hand.

You asked whether I change the solution with each record. No, I usually do about 10 records per bath. Since the solution has good agents for keeping the contaminants in solution or floccing them out, it continues to work very well through 10records. The manual says you can do 20, but I don't like going beyond 10.

Is that as convenient as a VPI? No, but it only cost me ~$80 vs $400 (average price of used VPI). The DIY record vacuum was given to me by my brother who bought a VPI. I've listened to records cleaned on his VPI (many of my own records). I've listened to records that I've cleaned using the Spin Clean/DIY. They sound every bit as good as the ones that were cleaned on the VPI.

Believe me, if I ever had the chance to buy a good VPI for $300 or less, I probably would, but I can't justify spending $400+, especially since I haven't been buying much new vinyl lately. More than half of my vinyl has already been cleaned.

This is encouraging....but...what does this DIY vacuum look like and how hard would it be to fabricate one?

Thanks!

billbillw

Erik Tracy wrote: »

This is encouraging....but...what does this DIY vacuum look like and how hard would it be to fabricate one?

Thanks!

Take an old junk turntable, remove the bearing and platter and install it on an MDF platform. Then take PVC tubing and fashion a wand to go over the platter. Make a few different wands and cut slits in them. Glue a felt like material around the slits. Hook the tubing to a small shop vac (1hp size). It takes quite a bit of work, but for the hobbyist who has more time than money, it is worthwhile. Typically, I don't have that much time though. So, if I was not given one, I probably would not have gone to that effort. I would have just continued to hand dry or splurged for a VPI.

Just search the internet for DIY record vacuum and you find lots of variations. Some even use the VPI wand assembly that is available here:
http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HW-3015&variation=&aitem=23&mitem=29

hearingimpared

billbillw wrote: »

Joe,
The nittys and VPI's cleaning ability is based solely on how well you can scrub the grunge out. I know you go to great effort to scrub them prior to vacuuming. The vacuum part just removes the grunge that was loosened up by the cleaning effort.

The key in any method is to not let anything dry on the record and the VPI is great with that.

I'll argue that the pure scrubbing/cleaning ability of the Spin Clean immersion system is as good or better than what you can do with any other method. It uses an enzyme based cleaner, wetting agents, and agents to aid in flocculation. The brushes are very tight and clean both sides simultaneously with just a few spins.

When I clean, I do one record at a time in a two step process. First, put it in the spin clean, spin it about 3 times in one direction. I usually go an extra mile and spin it 3 times in the opposite direction as well. Then I pull the record out and lay one side on a clean towel just for a second to get the excess water off. Then I slap it down on the DIY vacuum and hand spin it until that side is dry, then flip the record and vacuum the other side. Then straight into a poly lined sleeve. I would not call it cumbersome, just tedious because all the spinning is by hand.

You asked whether I change the solution with each record. No, I usually do about 10 records per bath. Since the solution has good agents for keeping the contaminants in solution or floccing them out, it continues to work very well through 10records. The manual says you can do 20, but I don't like going beyond 10.

Is that as convenient as a VPI? No, but it only cost me ~$80 vs $400 (average price of used VPI). The DIY record vacuum was given to me by my brother who bought a VPI. I've listened to records cleaned on his VPI (many of my own records). I've listened to records that I've cleaned using the Spin Clean/DIY. They sound every bit as good as the ones that were cleaned on the VPI.

Believe me, if I ever had the chance to buy a good VPI for $300 or less, I probably would, but I can't justify spending $400+, especially since I haven't been buying much new vinyl lately. More than half of my vinyl has already been cleaned.

Well, I can't argue with that seeing that my four step cleaning method of used and new vinyl is very tedious.

I do use four different fluids the first being and enzyme fluid applied with a foam paint brush and left to work on the record for 1 minute. Then I apply MFSL Super Deep on top of the enzyme fluid and scrub the hell out of it let it sit for about 30 seconds then vacuum it off. I finish it off with the third step MFSL Super Record wash scrub that in and vacuum and the last step VPI record cleaning fluid, scrub the vacuum. I use three different brushes and three different vacuum tubes and a fresh clean mat for side two.

I believe you when you say that 10 cleaning before dumping the trough is fine but that using the same fluid on 10 records gives me a bad feeling, cross contamination and all that. There is some really nasty grunge in used and new records, e.g., mold release compounds, finger grease, nicotene, welded peices of vinyl, mold, more mold etc. . . I find it hard to swallow that the enzyme cleaner in the trough could neutrilize all that and keep the fluid fresh.

One thing I do like about it is, as you said, you can reverse the spinning to scrub in the opposite direction.

billbillw

hearingimpared wrote: »

Well, I can't argue with that seeing that my four step cleaning method of used and new vinyl is very tedious.

I do use four different fluids the first being and enzyme fluid applied with a foam paint brush and left to work on the record for 1 minute. Then I apply MFSL Super Deep on top of the enzyme fluid and scrub the hell out of it let it sit for about 30 seconds then vacuum it off. I finish it off with the third step MFSL Super Record wash scrub that in and vacuum and the last step VPI record cleaning fluid, scrub the vacuum. I use three different brushes and three different vacuum tubes and a fresh clean mat for side two.

I believe you when you say that 10 cleaning before dumping the trough is fine but that using the same fluid on 10 records gives me a bad feeling, cross contamination and all that. There is some really nasty grunge in used and new records, e.g., mold release compounds, finger grease, nicotene, welded peices of vinyl, mold, more mold etc. . . I find it hard to swallow that the enzyme cleaner in the trough could neutrilize all that and keep the fluid fresh.

One thing I do like about it is, as you said, you can reverse the spinning to scrub in the opposite direction.

Its a pretty large reservoir, probably close to a liter. Dilution keeps it fresh. Sometimes I add a bit of extra concentrate half way through if I'm cleaning some real nasty ones.

hearingimpared

It better for over $1K!!!:eek::p