HDMI cable confusion

polkerfan
polkerfan Posts: 120
edited June 2010 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I am in the midst of a little confusion when it comes to HDMI cables. I keep reading that since they are digital, an hdmi cable is an hdmi cable is an hdmi cable. Yet I see many that are rated for 10 mbps transfer rates and higher and many that are much lower. Seems to me that the more info you can transfer the better the picture will be, the better the sound will be. I continually read negative things about Monster cable being extremely overpriced. I am certainly not pro Monster products, but I am not against them either. For my home theater I am putting together, I will need a sub cable (PSW 110 to a Denon AVR 591), and I will need HDMI's for the PS3 to receiver and one from the receiver to the tv (Samsung LN40C630). I want high quality cables for each but want to use practicality as well. What is out there that is current and affordable, yet ultra fast and well made? Specific info would be appreciated.
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  • K-daugh
    K-daugh Posts: 467
    edited May 2010
    said it before and ill sayit again www.monoprice.com they got everything you need cheapest i have seen and amazing quality
    Budget 5.1 H.T. Set Up
    HK avr 247 - Adcom GFA-7605:mrgreen::mrgreen: - Belkin PF60 Power Conditioner - Cs2 center channel - Monitor 60's fronts - Monitor 30's rears
    Mirage Bps 150i powered sub - 40"Samsung LCD ln40c530 - Sony Blu Ray Player BDP-S370 - Comcast digital hd box(motorola dcx3400)
    Monoprice Premium Interconnects Monoprice Ultra Slim HDMI w/Redmere:mrgreen: -Knukonceptz Kord 10 Gauge Speaker Wire - Nakamichi Banana Plugs
    Custom Jumpers
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  • PerfectCreature
    PerfectCreature Posts: 1,456
    edited May 2010
    A cable really is a cable. I have seen no diffrence between my Intec cable which I spend $3 on when a store closed out that was priced only 20, to the Nyko ones that are 30....along to the 120 monster ones that my uncle has. It all depends on the tv, and the source...
    Really unless you have like a 3000 tv...a regular no bells or whistles HDMI will do.
    Receiver
    Harman Kardon HK 3490
    Speakers
    Polk Audio Monitor 50s
    Subwoofer
    Klipsch KSW-100
    Cables
    AudioQuest Rocket 33s 10ft
    AudioQuest Optilink1 2m
    AudioQuest Alpha-Snake 25ft Interconnect
    AudioQuest HDMI-1 2m

    Alienware X51 R2
    PS4
    Samsung Smart TV 40" 1080p 3D
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  • chuckt62
    chuckt62 Posts: 33
    edited May 2010
    I have a couple of the Monoprice HDMI cables that work fine and cost next to nothing. I also have a couple RixPRO MAXIMAs I got from Amazon for cheap also. I think I like the RixPros better though. Mainly because they are more flexible. I decided to get a short 1ft HDMI from Monoprice when I was ordering some other stuff. I needed it to go from the DVR to the AVR which is very short run, but the Monoprice cable was too stiff to make the turn without risk of popping out. Now I have a 2 footer (maybe 1.5, I forget) back their with a loop in it.
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,119
    edited May 2010
    Check out the Daytons at PartsExpress. Dirt cheap and up to spec. Great quality as well.
    I could tell no difference on my $2500 TV between a $120 HDMI cable and a $6 HDMI cable and I have a very discerning eye (much better than my ears lol).
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  • PerfectCreature
    PerfectCreature Posts: 1,456
    edited May 2010
    More expansive is just for looks.
    Receiver
    Harman Kardon HK 3490
    Speakers
    Polk Audio Monitor 50s
    Subwoofer
    Klipsch KSW-100
    Cables
    AudioQuest Rocket 33s 10ft
    AudioQuest Optilink1 2m
    AudioQuest Alpha-Snake 25ft Interconnect
    AudioQuest HDMI-1 2m

    Alienware X51 R2
    PS4
    Samsung Smart TV 40" 1080p 3D
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,119
    edited May 2010
    PerfectCreature wrote: »
    More expansive is just for looks.

    Not with all cables, but for HDMI I found that to be true. But there may be some HDMI cables that do provide a better picture...
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited May 2010
    I have yet to see any difference in HDMI pics quality as long as they are rated HDMI 1.3 and above compliant. And yes, I use and love monoprice HDMI cables, as long as you don't have those sharp angle to get to your gears.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • mshan242700
    mshan242700 Posts: 823
    edited May 2010
    Monoprice.com HDMI cables ( http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024008&p_id=4957&seq=1&format=3#specification ) are a very good starting point, unless you need very extended lengths, where http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/how-long-can-hdmi-run.htm?hdmiinfo might be a better choice.

    In terms of more premium HDMI cables, when I used to have a PS3 and Pioneer BDP-51FD, I thought that Monoprice cables were slightly coarse (relatively speaking, ever so slightly out of focus) in comparison to the Wireworld Ultraviolet 5.2 HDMI. However, this was only noticeable after I compared the two, and I probably could have been quite happy with the Monoprice one if I hadn't compared the two. I didn't do any double blind comparisons, so it could have all been my imagination, too. :) I would view premium HDMI cables just like premium interconnects and speaker cables, a possible fine burnishing of an already well matched and balanced system.

    Someone on another forum commented that a Monoprice tech said not to get HDMI cables shorter than 5 ft. because it didn't allow the full band width to develop. Don't know if that is true or not, but price difference is really not much of an issue, so I would start with the 5 ft. Monoprice HDMI as a baseline. Live with it for a while, and if you feel you are still missing something (that is your system has more potential then you are seeing / hearing), then consider a more premium HDMI cable.
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  • chuckt62
    chuckt62 Posts: 33
    edited May 2010
    mshan242700 wrote: »
    ...Someone on another forum commented that a Monoprice tech said not to get HDMI cables shorter than 5 ft. because it didn't allow the full band width to develop...

    That's funny.
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  • polkerfan
    polkerfan Posts: 120
    edited May 2010
    Seems like the consensus is to go with monoprice. Is there a particular model that would be perfect for my application? Are they rated for mbps? I think I may have issues with the short distances and the tension it may put on the connector as well. Does everyone agree also with the blue jeans cables as far as high quality and value? Also, has anyone else heard that an hdmi must be 5' or longer to perform at its best? With current avr's having the new hdmi 1.4a, what cables will perform best with these?


    What makes monoprice so much better than anything else? Is a mbps rating important when looking for an hdmi to handle all of the latest gear out there?
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  • PerfectCreature
    PerfectCreature Posts: 1,456
    edited May 2010
    Monoprice is because of the price.
    They basically are high end construction cables sold for essentially the parts used to make them.
    You are not paying for someone to make the cables, to have the company ship them to a retailer then have the retailer stock them to the floor then pay the sales tax.
    No, it is gimmick free, just paying for what you get.
    That why they are better, for most cables anyway.
    Receiver
    Harman Kardon HK 3490
    Speakers
    Polk Audio Monitor 50s
    Subwoofer
    Klipsch KSW-100
    Cables
    AudioQuest Rocket 33s 10ft
    AudioQuest Optilink1 2m
    AudioQuest Alpha-Snake 25ft Interconnect
    AudioQuest HDMI-1 2m

    Alienware X51 R2
    PS4
    Samsung Smart TV 40" 1080p 3D
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  • acmf74
    acmf74 Posts: 936
    edited June 2010
    Are "optical" cables pretty much all the same too?

    ie: Would a Audioquest wire be better than a Monoprice brand?
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited June 2010
    Optical depends a lot on the quality of the plastic they use. There are a couple of companies that produce a "glass" TOSLINK cables (not sure if it's actual glass or not) for around $50 that are great quality...I bought one off ebay & it has MUCH tighter fit & seems to be a better quality overall. Better sound? Not sure....
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • acmf74
    acmf74 Posts: 936
    edited June 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Optical depends a lot on the quality of the plastic they use. There are a couple of companies that produce a "glass" TOSLINK cables (not sure if it's actual glass or not) for around $50 that are great quality...I bought one off ebay & it has MUCH tighter fit & seems to be a better quality overall. Better sound? Not sure....

    Thanks..

    I picked up some digital coaxial cables and optical cables to connect my Blu Ray Player and AVR. I want to see if there would be a difference in sound. Supposedly the coaxial has a wider bandwidth.


    Interesting link:

    http://www.hometheatermag.com/advicefromtheexperts/907cablesweb/
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  • On3s&Z3r0s
    On3s&Z3r0s Posts: 1,013
    edited June 2010
    Since Blue Jeans came up a number of times I figured I'd chime in about a bad Blue Jeans HDMI cable I got. I'm not sure what was wrong with it. I only noticed a problem with the cable when it was sending SACD from my Oppo BDP to my Pio receiver. Otherwise it was fine (picture and sound on Blu Ray discs worked great). I've bought a fair amount of audio cable from Blue Jeans and like the value of those, so I'm not talking down the company's products overall. I'd recommend reading Blue Jeans' return policy where they specifically mention HDMI and testing the hell out of it as soon as possible after you get it.

    I've used the monoprice cable too and never had a problem. I don't like the clunky filters or whatever those big plastic cork-sized things behind the plugs are, so I've taken to buying Mediabridge cable from Amazon. Those run about 10-15 bucks depending on length and have always worked fine for me too.
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  • polkerfan
    polkerfan Posts: 120
    edited June 2010
    Thanks for all the info everyone. I am currently looking at both blue jean cables and monoprice.
    Here is another question now. I was talking with a co-worker today about this very same topic. He has a "stereo guy" installing all of his new gear in a house he just bought. Apparently he has some distance between his receiver and other rooms where components will be is my understanding. Say about 50' or so. This guy told him that over that length hdmi just wouldn't be good, so he is wiring everything in 'cat-5' cable. Is this accurate?

    Also what are the monoprice or bluejeans cables that are THE ones to get?
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  • On3s&Z3r0s
    On3s&Z3r0s Posts: 1,013
    edited June 2010
    The quality of the HDMI signal will deteriorate over long runs, and cable quality will probably have some effect on how much signal loss there is, how much other sources of EM interference will affect it, etc. If HDMI needs to travel a long distance in-wall professional installers will generally use two Cat 5+ cables to carry the signal with a converter at each end. I've used this method, and it works. (I've never tried a 50' run of HDMI cable.) So, yep, your buddy is getting good information from his installer. In general, I'd say most people don't need to do this. Unless you're putting in a central wiring closet / structured media panel, I don't think it makes sense unless you're doing it strictly point-to-point. (Like you want to drive a TV monitor in a home gym from your main receiver two rooms down.) But if you're remodeling or something and don't mind spending for futureproofing then the couple extra ethernet cables aren't going to hurt anything.

    The Blue Jeans cable I had the problem with was the series F2. But they're a nice, sturdy cable and two of the three I ordered work fine.
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  • polkerfan
    polkerfan Posts: 120
    edited June 2010
    good info on3. Well, I just looked on mono's website and found a 4' monoprice 28 awg hdmi cable that the website guy said was their best and it's only $3.68!! Really!? Can they be that good of a cable for so little? I understand that even if they weren't, heck I'd only be out $8 or so (I need two). But I guess I am shocked that they are that cheap. An ultra high speed MONSTER CABLE 4' hdmi (I believe 10.2 mbps) is like $90! The guy said these were 10.2 as well. Please confirm everyone!
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,119
    edited June 2010
    Why do you think folks say munster is overpriced?
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  • On3s&Z3r0s
    On3s&Z3r0s Posts: 1,013
    edited June 2010
    You definitely don't need to be spending $90 on an HDMI cable. In a moment of weakness I bought an expensive Audioquest HDMI cable (first and only one I ever bought) before I spent five minutes to think about it. It was about $70 if I remember right and the "cheap" cables I've bought since work the same (with the one exception). I'd say buy 3 of the monoprice cables, save $80 bucks, and have a spare if one turns out to be bad.
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  • polkerfan
    polkerfan Posts: 120
    edited June 2010
    Just saw on Amazon some GTMAX hdmi cables. They state that they are 1.4 hdmi cables capable of 4k x 2k resolution. And they are selling for $6.99! Are these ANY good!?
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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited June 2010
    mshan242700 wrote: »
    Someone on another forum commented that a Monoprice tech said not to get HDMI cables shorter than 5 ft. because it didn't allow the full band width to develop. Don't know if that is true or not,

    hmmm I've never heard that before, I was always told that for digital the shorter the better. But I contacted Bluejeans just a while ago and asked them their opinion on this. I'll post their response here when I get it.

    Belden/Bluejeans was able to pass a 1080p/60 signal at 100ft:

    http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2009/06/belden_runs_an_unamplified_1080p60_digital_video_signal_over_100ft_of_connectorized_hdmi_cable.php
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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited June 2010
    I would personally go with Bluejeans because they're proven quality and on a moral stand point as well, they stood up to Monster's threats and took them head on and didn't back down, that there is one of the main reasons to give Bluejeans your business.

    Bluejeans also uses the proven broadcast industry standard Belden bonded-pair design which out performs the regular twisted pair design.

    http://www.belden.com/
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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited June 2010
    You can buy in bulk too...

    1000FT Bulk Cable for $89 bucks.

    http://www.hotwirecables.com/Cat5e_UTP_Solid_350MHz_24AWG_1000FT_Bulk_Cable_p/h-cat5-1000.htm
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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited June 2010
    UPDATE:

    I recieved back an email response from bluejeans about a half hour later (Great customer service!) which is why they're the Oppo of the cable world IMO. I'll post the email reply from the customer rep below without my email address regarding mshan242700's post about HDMI cables performance at 5ft or less.

    Sent By:
    "Blue Jeans Cable" <shipper@bluejeanscable.com> On: Jun 06/03/10 11:03 AM
    I’ve yet to see this come up in actual practice. On my system at home (Samsung HDTV, BluRay, Yamaha Receiver), I’m using some 3 foot HDMI cables as well as some 15’ long ones (I’ll hook my laptop into the system every once in a while), and I’ve never had an issue. All that is passing through the cable is digital information, much like a USB or Fire Wire cable. It’s only computer instructions – you can pretty much remove the terms “audio” and “video” from the signal, because for all the cable knows it could be an apple pie recipe being transmitted.



    As far as the new cables, they should be arriving in a few months as the production of that line has only just entered testing (which is prior to full production).



    On a side note – there is no such thing as a “1.4 cable”. The following articles will explain:

    http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-spec-versions.htm?hdmiinfo



    http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/03/3d-tv-hdmi-41-cables-sales-not-necessary-regular-basic-hdmi-tv-bluray-player.html





    Wayne - BJC
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  • On3s&amp;Z3r0s
    On3s&amp;Z3r0s Posts: 1,013
    edited June 2010
    digitalvideo wrote: »
    I’ve yet to see this come up in actual practice. On my system at home (Samsung HDTV, BluRay, Yamaha Receiver), I’m using some 3 foot HDMI cables as well as some 15’ long ones (I’ll hook my laptop into the system every once in a while), and I’ve never had an issue. All that is passing through the cable is digital information, much like a USB or Fire Wire cable. It’s only computer instructions – you can pretty much remove the terms “audio” and “video” from the signal, because for all the cable knows it could be an apple pie recipe being transmitted.

    The notion that a cable needs to be of some minimum length for any reason having to do with bandwidth is wrong. The guy who was worried about letting bandwidth "develop" might as well have said you should shake the cable like a polaroid while watching your Blu-Ray.

    By the same token, it's almost as goofy to compare the signal read off a Blu-Ray disk to an apple pie recipe. I could send an apple pie recipe in ASCII over a 1200 baud modem and a POTS line if my AVR had a place to plug in an acoustic coupler. Sending 5.1 channels of audio from an SACD in DSD format wouldn't work so good with that. So cable quality and the maximum bandwidth supported definitely does matter to some degree.

    That said, any HDMI cable that supports the 1.3 spec should do the job of getting a full 1080p output on a big TV, especially if the marketing copy says anything about being tested or certified to 340mHz.

    If you can trust wikipedia, there's a table down the page about the different spec levels. HDMI 1.4 has to do with more exotic things like ethernet over HDMI, 3D, and a specific return channel for audio. I don't think the 1.4 spec has been fully nailed down yet and very few consumer electronics products rely on it. So, I'd focus on getting a decent and inexpensive cable for your current needs. If for some reason it doesn't work with the 60" 3D TV you buy in 3 years, you can always buy another $10 cable then. :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
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  • K-daugh
    K-daugh Posts: 467
    edited June 2010
    acmf74 wrote: »
    Thanks..

    I picked up some digital coaxial cables and optical cables to connect my Blu Ray Player and AVR. I want to see if there would be a difference in sound. Supposedly the coaxial has a wider bandwidth.


    Interesting link:

    http://www.hometheatermag.com/advicefromtheexperts/907cablesweb/

    does anyone know if this is true better sound out of coaxial or optical?
    Budget 5.1 H.T. Set Up
    HK avr 247 - Adcom GFA-7605:mrgreen::mrgreen: - Belkin PF60 Power Conditioner - Cs2 center channel - Monitor 60's fronts - Monitor 30's rears
    Mirage Bps 150i powered sub - 40"Samsung LCD ln40c530 - Sony Blu Ray Player BDP-S370 - Comcast digital hd box(motorola dcx3400)
    Monoprice Premium Interconnects Monoprice Ultra Slim HDMI w/Redmere:mrgreen: -Knukonceptz Kord 10 Gauge Speaker Wire - Nakamichi Banana Plugs
    Custom Jumpers
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  • polkerfan
    polkerfan Posts: 120
    edited June 2010
    Wanted to ask again if anyone has any knowledge of the gtMAX hdmi cables (saw them on Amazon). Also, does anyone have opinions on the BELKIN PURE/AV hdmi cables? Sounds like they may be of very high quality and much less expensive than Monster. How important is the 'gbps' info for cables? How do you know if a particular cable is transferring as much information as it needs to?
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,119
    edited June 2010
    Just buy the cable already...lol

    I have a Belkin Pure AV and it is fine. Nice quality.
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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited June 2010
    On3s&Z3r0s wrote: »
    The Blue Jeans cable I had the problem with was the series F2. But they're a nice, sturdy cable and two of the three I ordered work fine.

    Bluejeans Series F2 they say on their website is only for shorter runs, 15 feet or less. Their Series-1 is for long distance runs.
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