How much money can you throw into SDA's?

nduitch

I am wondering what people think is the max amount of money you could spend on gear, amps, cdp, etc. before SDA's just wont sound any better?

Should an amp cost more or less than the price of the speakers? I know its a personal preference thing, but there has to be some kind of correlation between SDA owners and their gear. Would it make any sense to have a $5000 amp with speakers that cost 1500.00(SDA 1 approx) new in 1985?
I'm sure SDA owners with 2.3's and 1.2's probably have to spend a little more on their amps for more wattage.

Where do you drawn the line?

leroyjr1

With my SDA 2.3tl's I was using a $800 adcom 5802 and it sounded great. For $5000 you could find a nice pre amp, amp, cd combo. I would never spend $5000 for just an amp, unless I win the lottery.

nooshinjohn

The SDA's are the kind of speaker that actually sound better as you improve the power/source feeding them. Tuned right and set up/modded properly, the SDA's can more than hold their own.

cnh

If you have SDAs that have been modded or at least have the newer tweeter replacements and are pretty minty...I don't know if there really is a limit. It's pretty much a matter of taste and how much the law of diminishing returns means to you. Some members here are willing to spend 1000s to get 1-5% more out of their already excellent systems. Look at the guys that use MIT cables, for example, which can run upward of a 1000 dollars 'used' for their higher lines. Well a couple of those are certainly worth more than the original price of some lower SDAs!

Reference level CD/SACDs can run you to 10K or more. Do they make a difference? They do if YOU can hear it. And some say they can!

Others who love vinyl can spend a couple of thousand on a MM cartridge!

Or how about 5-15k or more on some quality tube amps!

I can't afford this level and many here have bought some of this equipment used but it can get pricey.

SDAs are a kind of Holy Grail here. Some spend close to 1000 just upgrading them? This is one reason why 'we' are often made fun of on other AV sites..."Oh, those Polk guys, those are the guys who believe 20-30 year old speakers are better than a lot of things made TODAY and spend 1000s tweaking and upgrading an obsolescent system...what's up with them?" Well, most of the critics have not heard those CRAZY speakers!

So the answer is, whatever you think is enough?

cnh

treitz3

Thousands.

polkfarmboy

The more old posts I read about sda's the more I want a pair .

I dont mean to dark on the doorstep of the op but........ what is the most amount of money you can spend doing a complete modification to a pair of sda's ???

treitz3

Thousands...

nooshinjohn

cnh wrote: »

If you have SDAs that have been modded or at least have the newer tweeter replacements and are pretty minty...I don't know if there really is a limit. It's pretty much a matter of taste and how much the law of diminishing returns means to you. Some members here are willing to spend 1000s to get 1-5% more out of their already excellent systems. Look at the guys that use MIT cables, for example, which can run upward of a 1000 dollars 'used' for their higher lines. Well a couple of those are certainly worth more than the original price of some lower SDAs!

Reference level CD/SACDs can run you to 10K or more. Do they make a difference? They do if YOU can hear it. And some say they can!

Others who love vinyl can spend a couple of thousand on a MM cartridge!

Or how about 5-15k or more on some quality tube amps!

I can't afford this level and many here have bought some of this equipment used but it can get pricey.

SDAs are a kind of Holy Grail here. Some spend close to 1000 just upgrading them? This is one reason why 'we' are often made fun of on other AV sites..."Oh, those Polk guys, those are the guys who believe 20-30 year old speakers are better than a lot of things made TODAY and spend 1000s tweaking and upgrading an obsolescent system...what's up with them?" Well, most of the critics have not heard those CRAZY speakers!

So the answer is, whatever you think is enough?

cnh

You bring up an excellent point with deminishing returns. I feel I am at the point where my set-up, to me, is at the 85% point. To get 10% more out of it I will be spending easily the value of what I already have in it. I will spend it eventually to be sure, but I must first answer the question of how much farther down the rabbit hole I am willing to go. :eek:;):)

dane_peterson

It's always been difficult for me to spend more than $1500 on any particular piece in a 2-ch rig. (Amp, pre, source...) Of course, this $ value is different for everyone, depending on their financial status. But you end up justifying the quality in your head more than you actually HEAR the improvement. You can spend $100s or even $1000s for a 1-2% improvement.

Russ shared with me an audiophile documentary video a couple weeks back. It interviewed several audiophiles in a light that's less than flattering. It truly showed how there's no pricecap on this disease.... I mean, HOBBY.

RuSsMaN

treitz3 wrote: »

Thousands...

I think they heard you the first time. Anything constructive to ad, or is the Carver board boring you these days? Nobody is paying attention, just like your last few one-liners.

On topic, one thing I have ALWAYS credited and liked about Polk is the better gear you put behind them, the better they respond. I've put SICK and grossly mismatched ($ wise) gear on lowly, entry level Polk offerings at local audio meets and literally floored people.

As far as SDA's go, they can floor you on Adcom / Carver and the like - they can transport you on high(er) end gear, Manley, Jeff Rowland, Levinson, Dodd, CJ, etc etc.

I totally believe in synergy as being 'real', some gear just sounds better on some speakers - and it's true with Polk, except the window of gear is much larger than most speakers I've had the pleasure of demoing / owning.

Cheers,
Russ

Dane? Less than flattering? You're the first person I've heard that had that reaction to the Greek Audiophiles, the Athens Audio Club. I think it was great, and refreshing to have something out there like that. My favorite line is from the gentleman that says something to the order 'I used to be a normal person, until I met this guy named Tony - who had speakers the size of refridgerators, and amplifiers that could drain the national grid of a small country.'

We ALL used to normal at one point. Who wants to be normal though?

Jstas

I don't think I was ever normal at any point.

As far as how much money you can put in SDA's, well, it depends on the size. But, if you remove the batting, any of that bracing and the crossovers, you could probably fit several thousand in a pair of CRS+ and tens of thousands in a set of SDA SRS! I guess it would depend on what denomination of bills you used too.

Face

As much as your heart desires.

treitz3

RuSsMaN wrote: »

I think they heard you the first time. Anything constructive to ad, or is the Carver board boring you these days? Nobody is paying attention, just like your last few one-liners.

Go back and re-read the posts in series there, slim. I answered the question and the question was answered without going into detail. Then the same question was asked again. I answered the question and the question was answered without going into detail.

If this bugs you, stick it where the sun don't shine and have a nice day.

george daniel

The smaller SDA's respond really well to tubes,,the 2B's and 1C's have great synergy with the likes of Manley,VTL,Quicksilver,and Anthem,based upon my experience.I think the bang/buck rig would be 2B tL's,,Anthem , or VTL/Manley,, though in a Dodd ELP or Anthem Pre,,and a good source and POOF you have a 2ch rig that most folks coild live with for years,,associate them with the usual suspects of Sonicap,Mills,and MIT and you.ll be hard pressed to better it for say 3-5K.Just my 2 cents.


Edit-- this could really be a very useful thread for folks wanting to get into SDA's,,especially since Larry's newer upgrade threads are out there too,with that said--lets keep it on track--play nice please,,with sugar on top,,now back to our scheduled programming.

treitz3

From Dynamatting to Mortiteing to upgrading multiple caps that can be upwards of $100.00 a piece to granite footers with brass isolation feet to the Dreadnaught to refinishing or refacing the cabinets, upgrading the tweeters, adding upgraded resistors and wiring, maybe adding some additional internal bracing, the cost can add up to thousands.

tonyb

All depends,everyone sets their own worth to the quality of sound they hear. What is the point of diminishing returns ? Everyone again, sets that point by personal taste and wallet size.

dane_peterson

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Dane? Less than flattering? You're the first person I've heard that had that reaction to the Greek Audiophiles, the Athens Audio Club. I think it was great, and refreshing to have something out there like that. My favorite line is from the gentleman that says something to the order 'I used to be a normal person, until I met this guy named Tony - who had speakers the size of refridgerators, and amplifiers that could drain the national grid of a small country.'

We ALL used to normal at one point. Who wants to be normal though?

Didn't he say "Until I met this lunatic named Tony"? That WAS a great part.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed that video tremendously. But it did portray the interviewees in a manner similar to the BBC Real Dolls documentary... "these people are not right in the head." I personally don't want to be associated with that, though to a lesser extent I'm sure I am.

polrbehr

dane_peterson wrote: »

Didn't he say "Until I met this lunatic named Tony"? That WAS a great part.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed that video tremendously. But it did portray the interviewees in a manner similar to the BBC Real Dolls documentary... "these people are not right in the head." I personally don't want to be associated with that, though to a lesser extent I'm sure I am.

Any links to the vid?

dane_peterson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

RuSsMaN

You are correct Dane, lunatic!

Trietz, you had another swing and a miss, try actually READING the initial post - he was asking about matching up gear to SDA's. My favorite part was 'granite footers with brass isolation feet to the Dreadnaught '. It's fun when the comet Tom makes a pass too close to the forum.

Cheers,
Slim

heiney9

I don't believe there is a limit. I mean within reason. The problem comes from audio snobbery where if someone has $25K invested in gear you can't have Polk Audio speakers even if they sound better. I mean, what would your audiophile friends think of you. It's kind of like buying a $3M home and and having a Ford Focus parked in front.

Seriously though I don;t think there is a piece of gear that can out class a pair of SDA's. I really don't. Why, because everything in this hobby is so subjective.

H9

mhmacw

i can only thank god i dont have that much money to spend haha. its a sickness really...ive never been a fan of a report that is anything but informative. when the reporter puts his opinion in whether its in text or video representation it sort of ruins it for me. this reporter does sort of tell the tale of crazies instead of just showing how radicle a stereo can actually get.

hearingimpared

nduitch wrote: »

I am wondering what people think is the max amount of money you could spend on gear, amps, cdp, etc. before SDA's just wont sound any better?

Should an amp cost more or less than the price of the speakers? I know its a personal preference thing, but there has to be some kind of correlation between SDA owners and their gear. Would it make any sense to have a $5000 amp with speakers that cost 1500.00(SDA 1 approx) new in 1985?
I'm sure SDA owners with 2.3's and 1.2's probably have to spend a little more on their amps for more wattage.

Where do you drawn the line?

I don't think there is a limit on gear that the SDAs couldn't perform up to the standard of any particular high end piece. Especially modded/updated SDAs.

BTW that Greek Audiophile Society is awesome. I get email updates from them and I always am amazed! Some of their turntable are just outright works of art that I could only dream of.

DarqueKnight

nduitch wrote: »

I am wondering what people think is the max amount of money you could spend on gear, amps, cdp, etc. before SDA's just wont sound any better?

During my last two channel upgrade cycle, described here, I thought that I would be replacing the SDA's once the electronics were upgraded, but I found that there was no need for that.

nduitch wrote: »

Should an amp cost more or less than the price of the speakers? I know its a personal preference thing, but there has to be some kind of correlation between SDA owners and their gear. Would it make any sense to have a $5000 amp with speakers that cost 1500.00(SDA 1 approx) new in 1985?

I'm sure SDA owners with 2.3's and 1.2's probably have to spend a little more on their amps for more wattage.

If $1500 speakers allow you to hear significant improvements when going from a $1000 amp to a $3000 amp, then that combination makes sense. However, you should try those $1000 and 3000 amps with a higher quality set of speakers to see what, if anything, you are missing with the $1500 speakers. That is how I went about it.

As with shopping for anything, it helps to have performance goals in mind. I primarily listen to instrumental jazz recordings. For serious two channel listening pleasure, I want to get as close as possible to the aural and tactile sensations I experience when listening to a live jazz performance in a room with good acoustics. When auditioning speakers to replace the 1.2TL's, I looked at speakers in the $5K to $15K range. I used familiar, high quality recordings and made careful listening notes regarding clarity, musical detail, tactile sensations and sound staging. I then compared what I heard in dealer showrooms and friend's audio rooms to what I heard at home. I liked what I was getting at home better than what I heard elsewhere, so the SDA's have stayed put (for now).

nduitch wrote: »

Where do you drawn the line?

treitz3 wrote: »

Thousands.

The modifications to my SDA SRS 1.2TL's total $2,092. This includes two crossover capacitor upgrades and a custom, heavy duty AI-1 non-common ground amplifier interface (Dreadnought).

To put things in the perspective of nduitch's question regarding cost correlation, the MSRP of my preamp is $10,000, MSRP of the power amps is $8,000 per pair and MSRP of the SACD player is $8,000. The MSRP of my SDA SRS 1.2TL's in 1989 was $3400. If you adjust the 1.2TL's cost for inflation, you get a 2010 equivalent MSRP of $6165. Add the $2092 in modifications and the total is $8257, which is not out of line with the MSRP's of the electronics. The costs of power, speaker and interconnect cables are also in line with the MSRP's of the electronics and speakers. The total MSRP for interconnects is $8850, MSRP for speaker cables is $11700, MSRP for power cables is $9677. I consider cables to be "audio components" just like electronics and speakers.

Additional insights can be gained from other forum members (e.g.: madmax, hearingimpared, f1nut) who are (or were) running SDA's with high performance electronics and cabling.

dorokusai

I would not spend thousands on a 20 year old pair of loudspeakers....and haven't even done that on my modified SRT's. I'm not sure why you would add your component costs into that unless you just like to look at numbers. The costs for anything can be high, regardless of the item chosen....this can be an expensive hobby or a hilariously cost effective one.

There's a heck of a lot of good information to be found on here. You came to the right place.

F1nut

The sky or your wallet is the limit. Like the others here, I've found that the better they are feed, the better they sound.

Thousands and thousands...yeah, that's about right.

nooshinjohn

dorokusai wrote: »

I would not spend thousands on a 20 year old pair of loudspeakers....and haven't even done that on my modified SRT's.

You don't know what you are missing. Please send my your SRT's so that they can be properly enjoyed.:D:D:p;)

tonyb

Lets face it, Sda's are only worth so much,regardless of what upgrades you've done to them. Once the cost starts climbing more than said worth,it's time to move on. As good a speaker as they are, there are plenty more fish in the sea equally as good if not better.

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

Lets face it, Sda's are only worth so much,regardless of what upgrades you've done to them.

In line with the OP's inquiry, what would you suggest as an upper limit on the amount to invest in SDA mods and how did you arrive at this figure? I imagine you see this as a percentage of either a particular SDA's original retail value or the average used value?

tonyb wrote: »

Once the cost starts climbing more than said worth,it's time to move on. As good a speaker as they are, there are plenty more fish in the sea equally as good if not better.

Again, what guidelines should one use for "said worth"? What do you suggest moving on to and why?

drselect

tonyb wrote: »

Lets face it, Sda's are only worth so much,regardless of what upgrades you've done to them. Once the cost starts climbing more than said worth,it's time to move on. As good a speaker as they are, there are plenty more fish in the sea equally as good if not better.

I realize a car analogy have been used before and I am not trying to derail this thread but I know several people who have spent a lot more money on restoring a car than what they are worth than I have read about people hear spending on restoring SDAs. The point to me is that it is not always about the money leaving your hand or the value that someone else places on it but what it is worth to me.

DarqueKnight, I was a little disappionted in the fact that you didn't include the money you spent on your CRS+ in the post above. :rolleyes::D Your thread on the mod was great and has me thinking about further moding my CRS+ .:)

DarqueKnight

The costs for my CRS+ mods were given in post #16 of this thread.