WTF is "Green" certification?

Echosphere

I'm all for saving the environment and making our small little place more energy efficient.

But I was talking to my mom the other day about doing some things to make it more energy efficient, save money, help the environment, and she goes "Well that's expensive." I said "What is?" well she said, green design, you have to get it certified by Leeds or whatnot and that costs money, alot of money.

And I thought. WTF?

Did some research on Leeds Certification and basically came to the conclusion that it is a CARTEL that issues paper certificates in exchange for exorbitant amounts of "consulting" dollars. For COMMON SENSE building and renovations.

You want to be Green certified? You want your gov required project to conform to Green standards, then pay us. Is basically what it says.

Really? You want to save money and the environment? Get a low flow faucet spout. Replace that toilet when it's rotted with one that is more efficient. Install an "army shower" spout (with the little bar for turning it off quick when soaping up, my personal fav), a new frig that is more energy efficient, new washer dryer that uses less electricity and water, insulation and weather stripping and double pane windows to save costs on heating, dig a trench for better water run off and barrels for saving water to help mitigate droughts. Turn off the freaking lights when you aren't using them. Replace burnt out bulbs with energy saving ones, walk a little more, eat some greens a fruit, when you have a steak eat less of it but buy some really good stuff for the BBQ when you do, buy a car that saves you money at the pump or try and group your travels better. Yeah, this ain't always convenient and that's fine, don't worry. But, do I need to get a Leeds certification to know the OBVIOUS? This is common sense! Most Americans know this! But to keep shoving Green crap down everyones throats is starting to annoy me.... It's just another selling point for "Cabbage Patch kids Craze" in my mind!

Get off the new crazy trend already corporate/media America and back to common sense.

I do vote Democrat usually but even I have to agree with conservatives in this case. This is crap! Another kind of frivolous regulation, but albeit, from the private sector.

Reminds of those Organics laws. You know what? Just make good food for good families at a good price...

Ok, I'm done ranting... Just another Wednesday with more piles of work and less pay..

Sigh.

Take care all,
Scott

F1nut

Nice little scam, isn't it!?!

Echosphere

F1nut wrote: »

Nice little scam, isn't it!?!

Ya know F1, I don't always agree with what you write, but in this case.

HELL yeah it is!

Btw, you heading to the Carver retreat this year? Those cabins look awesome. I don't know if I can make it but I heard if you get enough folks in one of them to total them, you can bring in the gear and rock it all night!

Woot!

RuSsMaN

I'm going green. Have a garden, got a few of those new weird lightbulbs for the most used sockets, built a rain water collection system to keep the fish tanks full. Looking at other options weekly.

I'm not doing it for the enviroment, I'm doing it for my family's bottom line.

That being said, I have a 1992 GMC Suburban with 270K, old reliable 350, modded intake, 3 inch cat back Flowmaster, modified suspension, etc etc. Why? It was something I could actually afford to buy in the backwards world we live in now. I can't drop 3000 on a rig, so forget about 30K on green mobile for the family.

At the end of the day, it's all about how we live, and I don't need much, but I'll do whatever it takes to sleep reasonably well at night. I guess I'm not so much going green, as I'm trying to be as self sustainable as possible (within my means). Basically, preparing for the zombies.

Cheers,
Russ

Echosphere

RuSsMaN wrote: »

I'm going green. Have a garden, got a few of those new weird lightbulbs for the most used sockets, built a rain water collection system to keep the fish tanks full. Looking at other options weekly.

I'm not doing it for the enviroment, I'm doing it for my family's bottom line.

That being said, I have a 1992 GMC Suburban with 270K, old reliable 350, modded intake, 3 inch cat back Flowmaster, modified suspension, etc etc. Why? It was something I could actually afford to buy in the backwards world we live in now. I can't drop 3000 on a rig, so forget about 30K on green mobile for the family.

At the end of the day, it's all about how we live, and I don't need much, but I'll do whatever it takes to sleep reasonably well at night. I guess I'm not so much going green, as I'm trying to be as self sustainable as possible (within my means). Basically, preparing for the zombies.

Cheers,
Russ

Russ, there are no zombies. Just like there are no credit fairies. There are just smelly hippies in Prius who smell like zombies.

RuSsMaN

Fair enough, so I'll strap a railroad tie to the front bumper on the GMC, bring on the Prius's! I watched the A-Team religiously as a young lad, I know what it's capable of with some scrap metal and a torch.

Cheers,
Russ

Echosphere

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Fair enough, so I'll strap a railroad tie to the front bumper on the GMC, bring on the Prius's! I watched the A-Team religiously as a young lad, I know what it's capable of with some scrap metal and a torch.

Cheers,
Russ

Always curious what the cat back EXACTLY does?

Btw, just got some melon seeds for our little garden plot we made.

What you planting dear sir?

Cheers,
Scott

hearingimpared

When one thinks green, one usually think money; in this case it DOES!

RuSsMaN

Echosphere wrote: »

Always curious what the cat back EXACTLY does?

Btw, just got some melon seeds for our little garden plot we made.

What you planting dear sir?

Cheers,
Scott

Cat back = redid the exhaust system from the Catalytic converter, back. I don't want to get Jstas in here to thread crap and woo us with exhaust ins and outs , but basically, just letting the engine breathe (exhale), decreasing backpressure (not too much as to sacrifice torque), and getting a real cool tone when I put the spurs to her. End result is a tad more power, and a few more miles before I hit the pump. Stock systems are varying degrees of restrictive, just for noise alone, if you can stand some tone, you can reap a mild benefit.

Garden? Have a 5 x 5 plot with 3 varieties of maters', cherry, beefsteak, and roma. 3 types of peppers, ****, serrano, and banana. Green beans, yellow corn, white corn, and iceberg lettuce. That's it for this year, next year I'll probably quadrupal the size and add a few goodies - this one is our first and I figured I'd get a few things we actually eat in the ground, and see what happens.

It's different now, I've planted oak trees here, japanese boxwood shrubs, etc (non productive) - NOTHING goes in the ground now unless it produces fruit - SOMETHING - nuts, berries, SOMETHING I can use. Why not?

Cheers,
Russ

F1nut

Echosphere wrote: »

Btw, you heading to the Carver retreat this year? Those cabins look awesome. I don't know if I can make it but I heard if you get enough folks in one of them to total them, you can bring in the gear and rock it all night!

I don't know yet. The cabins are the bomb and I'm sure you would enjoy the event. I believe all the main cabins are spoken for, but I'm sure there are still a few bedrooms available.

comfortablycurt

I hardly think that "going green" is a scam. Do some advertisers try to use it as a selling point when they really shouldn't? Yes...many things that are supposedly "green", really aren't.

But, I fail to see how anyone could get bent out of shape over this. We only have one planet...isn't it a good thing that we're attempting to prolong it's existence?

I know, I'm a crazy tree hugging hippie, but seriously...don't you think it's a good thing that we're taking some strides to better our planet?

RuSsMaN

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I know, I'm a crazy tree hugging hippie, but seriously...don't you think it's a good thing that we're taking some strides to better our planet?

That's what I was going for, in a round about way. It's a different world, for me and mine at least, than it was a few years ago. Being green and sustainable (to a point) is beneficial for me, regardless of how it affects mother earth and the future.

Does 'green' equal money? Sure, for some, all new tech, new trends do. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. New tech, new ideas - fresh out of the oven ARE expensive, time will tell if they are still around at a later date, or maybe they were just a fad.

It's kind of refreshing actually, being a child of the 80's 'me' era, I almost feel like a pioneer, getting back to grass roots, living a little closer to the ground if that makes sense...... I just ate a roma mater, right off the vine not five minutes ago. Better than a B vitamin shot. Now where is my whiskey?

Cheers,
Russ

Jstas

Sometimes I live a little closer to the ground. Like after I polish off a bottle of rum.

RuSsMaN

You're from Jersey, standing up straight you're not even a meter off the earth, are you? I bet your knuckles still touch, don't lie. DO NOT LIE.

Cheers,
Russ (of the super tall, greek god, six pack abdominals Russ's)

Jstas

I dunno, how about next Polkfest you put your face real close to them and tell me?

RuSsMaN

We're not headed towards that teeth-throat thing from years past, are we?

I'm 26 minutes into a Ronco knife commercial, I'm going to take that as a sign and bow out for the eve. I mean, really, I have to rearrange my sock drawer tomorrow, what's a girl to do with no sleep!

Cheers,
Russ

polktiger

From my prospective "going green" is a scam. Having a rural southen background I jokingly tell people that poor folks in the south have been "green" for a long time. We just did it becuase we were poor. Actually, it is part of the reason why my Dad refuses to use his recycling bin. Growing up, he reused EVERYTHING. Burlap sack clothes...the whole nine yards. He worked very hard to get to the point in his life where he can actually afford to throw something away.

It still drives my wife nuts that I refuse to buy tupperware - coolwhip bowls, and cottage cheese containers are what I use - becuase I am "frugal". For almost 20 yrs our office has made note/message pads out of waste paper - becuase we are "thrifty."

Met with a new client yesterday - she apologized for printing a report on the back of some old forms. Said - "we are trying to be a little green." I replied in all sincerity - "I deal with a lot of construction companies, so I am used to this. But they just do it because they are losing money in this economy and are trying to save money."

I hunt and fish - I am big on conservation (on a side note, hunters and fishermen have been major conservationists for decades before being "green" was so cool) One of the largest conservation organizations is Ducks Unlimited. It not about being "green" for many of us this is just common sense, and we are glad the "green crowd" finally cought on.

HB27

Being green and a conservationist is good.
It looks like the certification system is trying to "milk a bull"

camp21178

I repair office machines, I wish I had a dollar for every government office I've been in in the last 29 years that had their thermostat turned up way too high and the windows open in the middle of winter. They should be setting some sort of example. There always seems to be a paper recycling bin nearby though.

miner

I bet those Gov't offices have styrofoam cups in there kitchen/coffee bar.

tonyb

Russ has a point. He does whats appropriate for his family,not because somebody is TELLING him he has to. I too like to limit waste,re-use whatever I can,grow fresh veggies and so on, but I always have. Respect for the environment we live in,not force fed regulation with a reach around into my wallet. Aside from that,when the earth is done with our species,it could shake us off like a bad case of flea's,regardless of how many rain barrels you have. Any living thing consumes, as our species grows we consume more,common sense. You can conserve all you want but eventually the population will overcome those efforts. Everything has it's limits. Question is,how long can we sustain ourselves off of one planet? Thats why I for one was all for space exploration,we eventually will need another planet if the human race is to survive.

cfrizz

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Garden? Have a 5 x 5 plot with 3 varieties of maters', cherry, beefsteak, and roma. 3 types of peppers, ****, serrano, and banana. Green beans, yellow corn, white corn, and iceberg lettuce. That's it for this year, next year I'll probably quadrupal the size and add a few goodies - this one is our first and I figured I'd get a few things we actually eat in the ground, and see what happens.

It's different now, I've planted oak trees here, japanese boxwood shrubs, etc (non productive) - NOTHING goes in the ground now unless it produces fruit - SOMETHING - nuts, berries, SOMETHING I can use. Why not?

Cheers,
Russ

Good for you Russ, it all sounds delicious & colorful!:)

camp21178 wrote: »

I repair office machines, I wish I had a dollar for every government office I've been in in the last 29 years that had their thermostat turned up way too high and the windows open in the middle of winter. They should be setting some sort of example. There always seems to be a paper recycling bin nearby though.

Camp, I bet those offices you have been in are older than dirt & were never energy efficient, and it would probably be cheaper to tear them down & rebuild, but they don't have the money to do that either.

So you can be on one side of the floor roasting, needing the windows open to try to breathe, or walk a few feet away into the north pole!:eek:

Everytime I go down to DC, it seems like they have torn down another old building that was simply beautiful to look at. Marble floors, historic murals, etc. But they probably spent countless thousands of dollars trying to heat that went straight out the drafty old windows. So they just tear them down instead.

As for the certification, yes everyone will pay extra money if some company goes to the trouble of having that label put on. In audio terms think THX.

sda2mike

it's marketing BS...........remember 'digital-ready'? same idea.

jdhdiggs

LEED-AP certified professional and yes, it is 90% common sense and total BS. The ONLY good thing it does is set minimum requirements for someone saying "I'm green!"

Saying your LEED certified/silver/gold/platinum is verifyable for a company saying their "green"

If you have any LEED projects/questions... Well hire my company and we'll help out!

fatchowmein

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Basically, preparing for the zombies.

You have some work to do before you can get a ZAPV certification.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226875

Echosphere

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Cat back = redid the exhaust system from the Catalytic converter, back. I don't want to get Jstas in here to thread crap and woo us with exhaust ins and outs , but basically, just letting the engine breathe (exhale), decreasing backpressure (not too much as to sacrifice torque), and getting a real cool tone when I put the spurs to her. End result is a tad more power, and a few more miles before I hit the pump. Stock systems are varying degrees of restrictive, just for noise alone, if you can stand some tone, you can reap a mild benefit.

Garden? Have a 5 x 5 plot with 3 varieties of maters', cherry, beefsteak, and roma. 3 types of peppers, ****, serrano, and banana. Green beans, yellow corn, white corn, and iceberg lettuce. That's it for this year, next year I'll probably quadrupal the size and add a few goodies - this one is our first and I figured I'd get a few things we actually eat in the ground, and see what happens.

It's different now, I've planted oak trees here, japanese boxwood shrubs, etc (non productive) - NOTHING goes in the ground now unless it produces fruit - SOMETHING - nuts, berries, SOMETHING I can use. Why not?

Cheers,
Russ

Nice job indeed!

Echosphere

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I hardly think that "going green" is a scam. Do some advertisers try to use it as a selling point when they really shouldn't? Yes...many things that are supposedly "green", really aren't.

But, I fail to see how anyone could get bent out of shape over this. We only have one planet...isn't it a good thing that we're attempting to prolong it's existence?

I know, I'm a crazy tree hugging hippie, but seriously...don't you think it's a good thing that we're taking some strides to better our planet?

I agree actually being more green is great. Many have to do that now due to the economy as it is. And as the tech comes, I welcome that also.

But that's not what I am talking about.

I'm talking about the Leeds type of certification and marketing shenanigans that have come along. They market Green as the new Black... and it's annoying. Sure, if something breaks or you could save money and save the environment by replacing it with a more energy efficient one now, then that's just good COMMON SENSE.

Two examples:
A friend had a beloved CRX HF for ages, great shape, well kept and got around 42 to 53 mpg. He drove one of the new Prius and liked it. He didn't need a new car but wanted one. After he bought it he went on and on about how it's green and helps to make us independent from foreign, less carbon emissions, better for the environment blah, blah, blah. It's gets 46 hwy mpg, if he's lucky.
I tried to at least tell him to tell folks that it's safer, has power steering and quieter than his CRX HF so he doesn't sound like an ****.

I'm at Target in line for checkout and there are two women talking about the new green plastic mug made of corn or starch. They have about a dozen lined up cause it's Christmas time and they're talking back and forth about how they'll make great stocking stuffers for friends, family and people in the office. How they'll be able to teach them about using "green" products and make their life better by THROWING away their (perfectly) usable "bad" plastic mugs.

This is what I'm talking about, and its VERY bad: Green is the new buzz word to make you feel better about BUYING MORE and SPENDING MORE. It is not just a "selling" point, it is THE new market product and profit.

I don't think Toyota could convince people to junk their perfectly good older car for a $25K Hybrid, nor would those two women be buying $15 corn mugs that their friends and family will soon find aren't dishwasher safe as they'll melt in there, unless they got a little nudge from the "green" advertising. It's brilliant, buy more, spend even more, and have a clean conscience and gain social respect.

Current Green marketing is just plain ole Conspicuous Consumption as it has always been.

As the folks said above Leeds = THX. Or, even worse, think of Bose. No one knows what craps inside, they just market it as upscale, as the definitive audio authority and slap that Bose sticker on there. See the relationship? And yeah, sadly my Mom would buy a Bose.

At work I once asked the person in charge of our Leeds Gold building how much per square foot does it save the environment, carbon footprint, electricity, water, compared to a non Leeds certified building?
Meaning what did we get in exchange for that fancy metal Leeds Symbol out front. He said I don't know. I asked why.
He said that's not part of the Leeds Certification. He said it has to do with where the materials came from and the conservation design.
But you can't actually measure it against a non Leeds building,right?
No.
Why?
Because we don't know what an average building would averagely save you. It be better or it could be worse.
Ummmm...... So you control the market then on certification right?
No.
Why?
There are a few other standards.
I see.
How do they differ?
Well, we actually consult together and our standards are pretty close as we learn more and with new tech.
So you price fix?
What does that mean?
You're like a cartel, like Opec and you organize together to control the stamp like they control the oil.

I know a lot of folks aren't sheep, but there's also a lot of folks like my sweet Mother who still listen and believe what they see on the news and TV.

Now do you see why I'm so "bent out of shape"?

F1nut

I think I'll drop off my big SDA's at the local dump and buy these "green" speakers.

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/87552

Jstas

Nah, just do like RuSsMaN and paint your SDAs Jungle Green

Echosphere

F1nut wrote: »

I think I'll drop off my big SDA's at the local dump and buy these "green" speakers.

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/87552

The "green" ones only cost $100 more. What are waiting for? The dump closes in 45 minutes.

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/87339

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/87552

The A5 Bamboo is Made from Sustainable Solid Carbonized Bamboo! Save the Earth and Get Great Sound!

hearingimpared

Echosphere wrote: »

The "green" ones only cost $100 more. What are waiting for? The dump closes in 45 minutes.

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/87339

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/87552

The A5 Bamboo is Made from Sustainable Solid Carbonized Bamboo! Save the Earth and Get Great Sound!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Who's going to save us from the earth?:eek::D