Preamp with HT Bypass

RCFGuitars

I'm planning to add a pre with HT bypass to my rig, but before I pull the trigger, I want to make sure I'm not overlooking any models worth checking out. Sub out is a must, but other than that, I'm open to suggestions. I'd like to get the best I can in the $2k range, and pre-owned is an option. Right now, I'm leaning towards the Parasound Halo P7 (even though I hate silver), but if there's something better our there, I'd like to know.

nooshinjohn

Check out Rogue Audio. I run the Perseus with great results, and it's TUBES baby!

RCFGuitars

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Check out Rogue Audio. I run the Perseus with great results, and it's TUBES baby!

Thanks, that looks interesting. It says it has a sub out, but I don't see it on the back. Does it use one of those variable outs for the sub/s? How do you like the phono pre? What tubes are in there? I've probably got a hundred 12AX7's and 12AT7's around, so that could lead to some tube swapping fun.

nooshinjohn

12au7's are the stockers in it. The phono-pre is awesome, but I do not use a sub in my two channel configuration so I cannot answer that one.

thsmith

Look at the Anthem Pre 2L, in the 650-700 range.

leroyjr1

Adcom GFP-750 ($700 range)

Nice system you put together. I see you totally redone the 2.3's. Got any updated pics?

Face

http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=364714&b_id=&find_groupid=17873

No "sub" out, but does have a second pair of outputs.

heiney9

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Adcom GFP-750 ($700 range)

Nice system you put together. I see you totally redone the 2.3's. Got any updated pics?

The 750 doesn't have a sub out although it has a 2nd set out outputs which could be used for a sub, just no bass management.

Are you looking for bass management as well? If not, the 750 is a very neutral and natural sounding pre-amp, built like a tank, etc.

H9

RCFGuitars

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Adcom GFP-750 ($700 range)

Nice system you put together. I see you totally redone the 2.3's. Got any updated pics?

Yes Lee I do have quite a few pics. I took a lot as I was going along. It's hard to believe it's been almost a year already I'll post a few when I can pull them up later.

nooshinjohn

RFC... I did not know you were so clost to Indiana. I have 2.3's as well and would be pleased to have you drop by and hear the Rogue.

RCFGuitars

heiney9 wrote: »

The 750 doesn't have a sub out although it has a 2nd set out outputs which could be used for a sub, just no bass management.

Are you looking for bass management as well? If not, the 750 is a very neutral and natural sounding pre-amp, built like a tank, etc.

H9

Yes, bass management is a feature I believe I will need. I'm guessing that if the pre does not have bass management than I would have to be changing the settings on the subs themselves, and I have them set where I want them right now.

RCFGuitars

nooshinjohn wrote: »

RFC... I did not know you were so clost to Indiana. I have 2.3's as well and would be pleased to have you drop by and hear the Rogue.

I'm in the suburban Chicago area, so we probably aren't that far apart. That Rogue through your rig would probably give me a pretty good idea of what it would sound like in mine. As I get closer to a decision, I may just take you up on your kind offer.

Erik Tracy

RCFGuitars wrote: »

Yes, bass management is a feature I believe I will need. I'm guessing that if the pre does not have bass management than I would have to be changing the settings on the subs themselves, and I have them set where I want them right now.

If you are getting a preamp with HT Bypass - I assume that means you are trying to put together a hybrid HT/2-channel system right?

How did you plan on hooking up your AVR to the preamp and sub?

heiney9

The Rogue has no bass management either. You are pretty much looking at an HT pre w/HT bypass . I have yet to see a tubed pre that incorporates bass management for a subwoofer.

heiney9

Erik Tracy wrote: »

How did you plan on hooking up your AVR to the preamp and sub?

Good point. What processor (not AVR) are you running thru the HT bypass that doesn't already have bass managment built it?

RCFGuitars

Erik Tracy wrote: »

If you are getting a preamp with HT Bypass - I assume that means you are trying to put together a hybrid HT/2-channel system right?

How did you plan on hooking up your AVR to the preamp and sub?

Yes, this preamp would be added to the system in my sig. Since I was looking at the P7, I was planning to run the front and sub pre outs of my RX-V3900 to the P7, and then the P7 to the 1090 and subs. I was not going to change anything else since the new pre would be for 2 channel listening only. The Yammie has bass management, and I have it dialed in, so maybe I don't need it in the pre after all.

Polkitup2

I understand running the front pre-outs to the P7 for HT bypass but I don't see how you can run the sub pre-outs from the receiver to the P7 at the same time.

Erik Tracy

RCFGuitars wrote: »

Yes, this preamp would be added to the system in my sig. Since I was looking at the P7, I was planning to run the front and sub pre outs of my RX-V3900 to the P7, and then the P7 to the 1090 and subs. I was not going to change anything else since the new pre would be for 2 channel listening only. The Yammie has bass management, and I have it dialed in, so maybe I don't need it in the pre after all.

I have a hybrid system now built up that works pretty good:
* RX-V1800 as my AVR
* Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated Amp with HT Bypass

Sub out from the AVR goes to the LFE input on the sub
Left and Right preouts from the AVR go to HT Direct inputs on the A5 Int Amp

Then, from the A5 pre-outs, I run two cables to the Left and Right Line level inputs to my sub (So, I've got three cables hooked up to my sub at the same time: one from the AVR, and two from the Integrated Amp).

When in HT mode, I switch the A5 to "bypass" and the preamp section cuts off and the A5 is just an amp - preouts cut out too so that the sub only runs from the Sub out from the AVR and all of the applicable bass management settings.

When in music mode, my source components such as CD, Phono, are connected directly to the A5 and I use the xover freq adjustment on the sub to blend the sub with my mains. And my AVR is off - so no input from the AVR on the LFE connection.

That's the beauty of a HT Bypass - you can have both your AVR and your pre (or int) amp hooked up to the sub at the same time!

A preamp with bass management might be useful if you really want to fine tune how your mains and sub are set up. If you are truly concerned over amp strain due to scary bass levels going to your mains, then a preamp w/ bass management might be a good thing for 2-channel listening.

Otherwise, you may not need a preamp with bass management.

leroyjr1

RCFGuitars wrote: »

Yes Lee I do have quite a few pics. I took a lot as I was going along. It's hard to believe it's been almost a year already I'll post a few when I can pull them up later.

Don't know how big your listening room is but when I had them in my 24x14 living room I didn't need a sub. The bass output was great.

Take care....

RCFGuitars

Polkitup2 wrote: »

I understand running the front pre-outs to the P7 for HT bypass but I don't see how you can run the sub pre-outs from the receiver to the P7 at the same time.

I took that info from the P7 owners manual.

RCFGuitars

Erik Tracy wrote: »

I have a hybrid system now built up that works pretty good:
* RX-V1800 as my AVR
* Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated Amp with HT Bypass

Sub out from the AVR goes to the LFE input on the sub
Left and Right preouts from the AVR go to HT Direct inputs on the A5 Int Amp

Then, from the A5 pre-outs, I run two cables to the Left and Right Line level inputs to my sub (So, I've got three cables hooked up to my sub at the same time: one from the AVR, and two from the Integrated Amp).

When in HT mode, I switch the A5 to "bypass" and the preamp section cuts off and the A5 is just an amp - preouts cut out too so that the sub only runs from the Sub out from the AVR and all of the applicable bass management settings.

When in music mode, my source components such as CD, Phono, are connected directly to the A5 and I use the xover freq adjustment on the sub to blend the sub with my mains. And my AVR is off - so no input from the AVR on the LFE connection.

That's the beauty of a HT Bypass - you can have both your AVR and your pre (or int) amp hooked up to the sub at the same time!

A preamp with bass management might be useful if you really want to fine tune how your mains and sub are set up. If you are truly concerned over amp strain due to scary bass levels going to your mains, then a preamp w/ bass management might be a good thing for 2-channel listening.

Otherwise, you may not need a preamp with bass management.

Thank you for that info. It definitely gives me something else to consider. With the Rotel 1090 I'm not worried about amp strain, but I do like the 20hz range of the Epiks in my system. So maybe I do need the bass management hmmm

Erik Tracy

RCFGuitars wrote: »

Thank you for that info. It definitely gives me something else to consider. With the Rotel 1090 I'm not worried about amp strain, but I do like the 20hz range of the Epiks in my system. So maybe I do need the bass management hmmm

In glancing at the P7 manual - it sure looks like everything can be patched into it and it is 'smart' enough to let AVR bass management to pass thru, or you can let the P7 do all the bass management for both HT and music.

I run an Epik sub too!

Unfortunately my A5 integrated amp does not have a sub input or bass management, so for HT/Movies, I need to run the Sub out from the AVR to the LFE input on the sub.

But - for music - I use the xover control on my Epik to blend the sub with my B&W Bookshelves.

The sub gets all the signal spectrum and the xover sets the low pass cutoff freq of the sub.

The drawback of my setup - if any - is that the B&W bookshelves get full audio sprectrum when I listen to 2-channel sources. So some folks would roll their eyes at me and wag their finger in derision at trying to blend mains with a sub, or that my poor 250w/channel amp will strain to drive my bookshelves with scary deep bass.

RCFGuitars

Does anyone know if the Rogue Perseus will let the AVR bass management pass through?

nooshinjohn

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Perseus.htm


Give them a call in the morning:) Their customer support is fantastic.

Erik Tracy

RCFGuitars wrote: »

Does anyone know if the Rogue Perseus will let the AVR bass management pass through?

I looked at the Perseus manual.

The Perseus only has 2 inputs for HT - intended for the Left & Right Front preouts from an AVR.

That means if you use the AVR bass management, your sub needs to be connected to the AVR sub out.

When the Perseus is in HT bypass, the preamp is...well...completely bypassed and the Left/Right Front Preouts go straight to your external amp.

Bass Management in this case would be from the AVR via the direct sub out connection from your AVR to your sub - it would not be thru the Perseus.

Now, the question is, do you want your sub to work when you are listening to 2-channel sources like a CD.

If so, you also need to connect the pre-outs from the Perseus to your sub's Left and Right Line level inputs.

RCFGuitars

Erik - thanks for all the info, that helps quite a bit

RCFGuitars

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Adcom GFP-750 ($700 range)

Nice system you put together. I see you totally redone the 2.3's. Got any updated pics?

Here are a few pics I took along the way. Thanks again to Ben for the xo's.

nooshinjohn

If you come down to hear the Rogue... bring those crossovers with you so I can hear what the mods sound like.

blueboxer

Erik Tracy wrote: »

I looked at the Perseus manual.

The Perseus only has 2 inputs for HT - intended for the Left & Right Front preouts from an AVR.

That means if you use the AVR bass management, your sub needs to be connected to the AVR sub out.

When the Perseus is in HT bypass, the preamp is...well...completely bypassed and the Left/Right Front Preouts go straight to your external amp.

Bass Management in this case would be from the AVR via the direct sub out connection from your AVR to your sub - it would not be thru the Perseus.

Now, the question is, do you want your sub to work when you are listening to 2-channel sources like a CD.

If so, you also need to connect the pre-outs from the Perseus to your sub's Left and Right Line level inputs.

I was looking at the A5 for my two channel setup as well as integrating it into my HT setup. I had narrowed down my integrateds to the PS Audio C100, Cambridge 840A, and A5. The HT bypass of the A5 is really appealing and has put it in the lead thus far, but the 840A offers the ability to control multiple zones later on if I move it upstairs with the Incognito setups. Oh, blast these choices. LOL

RCFGuitars

heiney9 wrote: »

The Rogue has no bass management either. You are pretty much looking at an HT pre w/HT bypass . I have yet to see a tubed pre that incorporates bass management for a subwoofer.

For what I'm trying to accomplish, it looks like a pre w/HT bypass and bass management is a must. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a tube pre with those features either. I guess that puts the P7 back at the top of the list.

Anyone know of any other pre's in that price range, with those 2 features?

Face

nooshinjohn wrote: »

If you come down to hear the Rogue... bring those crossovers with you so I can hear what the mods sound like.

:rolleyes: