Squeeze box or apple TV?
cstmar01
Posts: 4,424
so currently I have a TON of music on my computer around 100 gigs. I'm looking to stream this to my 2 channel set up thats in the same room but don't want to lose audio quality in doing so, nor do I really want to go over like 300 bucks or so to do it. I hear a lot of good things about squeeze boxes but unsure how good they are. Seeing almost all of my music is already in the Itunes due to my iphone and ipod would the appleTV be an OK solution, or do you feel that it sucks in terms of audio quality?
I've never used one so I'm unsure of what it can do ect, also with squeeze box if it would be worth my wild to go that route.
or is there a better option (besides vinyl or CD's) that I could do?
Thanks!
I've never used one so I'm unsure of what it can do ect, also with squeeze box if it would be worth my wild to go that route.
or is there a better option (besides vinyl or CD's) that I could do?
Thanks!
Post edited by cstmar01 on
Comments
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If you have a PS3, you can use TVersity or PS3 Media Server (both free) to stream your music, videos and pictures. I use the PS3 Media server. SQ is ok, but it also depends on the quality of the file. FLAC sounds much better than MP3, but that would be expected.
I see that you have an XBox 360. I believe you can use TVersity to stream your music that way, but I've personally never tried.
I have a friend who has Apple TV and loves it half the time and hates it the other half. But, he mainly streams movies, not music. I'm not a fan of logitech, so I haven't done much research into the squeezebox. Have you thought about Sonos or is that out of your price range? As you have an iphone, the sonus has a free app that let's your iphone be the remote. -
i've used tversity to stream mp3s from my computer to HT setup via my xbox360.. don't listen to much music on the HT rig, but it did the job well..
Jason2-Channel - So far...
Pre: Dodd ELP
DAC: W4S-Dac2
Source(s): Computer and Denon 2910
Amp: Parasound HCA-1200II
Speakers: LSi9s - Vr3 Fortress Mod -
How is the music stored? If it is not lossless then the point is moot how you get it to the 2 channel system. If you do not have lossless files you have already ruined the quality beyond what any device can do.
most are lossless. I would say probably about 2/3 at least. The rest were just mp3's which I know I can't salvage but want to try and have the rest sound like they should. -
Written on 5/11
I was pretty excited a couple weeks ago when I saw some information here about the new Squeezebox Touch I ordered it along with an iTouch (to use as a remote with the iPeng app) the same day. The ability to play tunes directly from an external hard drive while controlling everything from an iTouch on the back patio brought dreams of Betty White and backrubs
This is probably much more wordy than it needs to be, but I had some time to kill on a flight when I first started writing this up .Heres an editorial on the Squeezebox Touch that I wrote up last week .
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I ended up not having to travel for work for a couple of consecutive weeks this led to me taking a look at my system & stopping by the forum here @ Club Polk. Next thing you know Im reorganizing cables, looking to upgrade speakers, and checking out what new audio products would make me the King of cul de sac Swing
Fortunately this upgrade was pretty light on the checkbook .
Existing Equipment:
Sherwood Newcastle P965 Preamp
B&K 200.5 (for inside speakers)
LSi9 Front/Center
TC65i Rear
HSU ULS15 Sub
B&K ST2140 (for outside speakers)
Niles Audio OS7.5
New Equipment:
Touch (Squeezebox Touch)
Iomega 500GB Hard Drive
iTouch (Apple iPod)
Why did I buy the Squeezebox Touch instead of the other Squeezebox products?
The Squeezebox Touch (Touch) is able to play all of my music directly from an EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE in addition to all the great features the Squeezebox has always had (connect wirelessly to Pandora, Rhapsody, satellite and HD stations, etc ). With the other Squeezebox products, everything must be streamed from a separate computer .not a bad solution, but not as ideal for me personally since everything I do is from a work-issued laptop and I dont have any interest in maintaining a current separate home computer for media.
Exception: I think you can store all of your owned music on mysqueezebox.com for a subscription fee and have access without having a separate computer turned on, but I have never researched this option .
Why Squeezebox instead of Apple TV?
Im by no means a Logitech fan boy in fact, all of my music on the external hard drive is in Apple lossless, even though very little of it was purchased from iTunes (although I am pretty sure that anything I purchased from iTunes can be played on the Squeezebox Touch). Apple TV has a 160GB internal hard drive, but last I checked it does not have the capability to play directly from an external hard drive (although it looks like the addition of an AirPort Extreme might make this possible) .I have right around 160GB in just music right now.
The other highlight for Apple TV is the ability to download and play movies from the iTunes store. I have nothing against the Apple empire, but Im a little more comfortable with the flexibility of ordering the few movies I watch from either Coxs PPV or Netflix (I just started using the Netflix service on Wii) neither is optimal, but meets my needs. I cant remember the last time I used my Blueray player.
As Im writing this, Im second guessing my hasty decision to buy a Squeezebox and will probably do a little more research on Apple TV over the weekend .the last time I really looked at it was well over a year ago
UPDATE please see my post below this editorial .
What about the touch interface only being at the unit connected to my system? I like to use a remote, but this remote doesnt look very good .There is an app available for the iTouch called iPeng, which turns the iTouch into a complete remote control for the Squeezebox Touch. When I decided that the Squeezebox Touch was going to be my source, I ordered an iTouch at the same time. I also picked up a Squeezebox Radio for my office with this move, and iPeng controls both devices easily. Btw the Squeezebox Radio is a very nice office radio for the price
It looks like there are some cool dangles and apps coming out that will potentially turn an iTouch into a Harmony replacement, but the macros for these apps arent quite up to speed yet (from the little Ive read on the subject). For now, Ill stick with my older Harmony 890 to control the overall system. Also, the iTouch battery doesnt seem to have the longest life
Problems I ran into .
The wireless receiver on the Squeezebox Touch is not impressive. Admittedly, my initial setup had the Touch quite a ways from my wireless router and inside a wood cabinet. However, my iTouch and laptop both received great signals in the exact same location. Even at a straight line 8 ft distance from the wireless router, it never had more than one bar of signal strength. I could get a sporadic connection, but nothing that would work for me especially considering that the Touch would need to be on the network in order to use the iTouch as a remote. After talking with Logitech with no resolution, I was about to send this thing back.
Side Note: In preparation for this setup, I upgraded from a Motorola modem/wireless G router combo that is about 1 year old to a Motorola modem/Netgear Wireless N network to improve my coverage area the wireless G network was also at a point where it needed to be reset every couple of days. Please keep in mind that this is from my experience only there are plenty of people out there who have had absolutely no problem connecting to the Touch wirelessly.
I ended up moving my modem and wireless router from my office in the back room to the living room entertainment center. My current (and final) setup is a hardwired via ethernet Squeezebox Touch in my living room connected to the equipment listed at the top and a wireless Squeezebox Radio in my backroom office. At the end of the day, I think that this hardwired solution produces a better HD Radio sound quality, but it could just be in my head.
What it is My owned music on the external hard drive sounds good much better than the stock iPod classic (80GB connected directly from the bottom port to analog inputs) I was previously using as a source. The big win for me is convenience...with summer here in AZ, I like to crank up some tunes and hang out by the pool. The iTouch makes it easy to skip tracks, create playlists, and search through my music on the go without having to run inside every time the playlist/album ends.
HD radio still sounds like HD radio although sports talk radio in HD sounds nice and clear (obviously much better than the AM radio) and is great in the background for home office days when I work on the patio. I havent had a chance to play with Pandora or Rhapsody yet, but my expectation is that the quality will fall somewhere in between the external hard drive and HD Radio .Ill report back on this one after the weekend.
What it isnt .
Ive realized that Im not the type of guy who enjoys comparing the intricacies of sound detail between various sets of speakers and amplifier combinations. In other words, Im not what you would consider an audiophile....I just like something that hits the right combination of great sound with convenience and can get loud when necessary .
Although I think this thing sounds damn good as a source, and most of the reviews rave about the quality of sound available and components inside, the Squeezebox Touch probably wont impress the guy who has a recliner sitting in the middle of a perfectly calibrated room with everything precisely measured in anticipation of the next listening session.
With that said though, I will most likely order an upgraded Power Supply and keep an eye on what
Wayne from Bolder has in mind for upgrades after he plays with this thing for a while .
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ciglrp00di52cpmq3gsd6nj6mo7099su&topic=80717.0 -
Written on 5/17
.so after a busy Saturday morning I decided it would be fun to hang out by the pool and listen to some tunes. I found the iTouch but it couldnt find my Squeezebox on the network. I played around with it for awhile, reset the power on the Squeezebox, and next thing you know Im kneeling by the entertainment center scrolling through my tunes. This is when it hit me what the hell am I doing? Squeezebox was supposed to make my life easier and help me enjoy the music I have, but Im not doing anything different from 2 weeks earlier when using my old iPod as a source.
Next step .
Im in the car on my way to the Apple store. The Apple girl was pretty excited about showing me Apple TV, and to be honest, her enthusiasm was a little contagious. 10 minutes later Im on my way home with a whole new set of inappropriate dreams .oh yeah, I picked up the Apple TV as well.
What it is .
Easy to hook up, easy to control with the iTouch, and even easy to control with my Harmony 890. I think it sounds just as good as the Squeezebox Touch out of the box.
What Im giving up by going with this over the Squeezebox Touch I guess Im giving up Satellite Radio, Pandora, Rhapsody, and the whole open interface thing that techies love. I remember back in the day when I almost started to rip my entire collection in FLAC, then changed my mind and went with Apple Lossless because it was just easier for a non techie like me. Im also giving up the possibility for upgrades to improve the sound quality I dont think anyone tries to tweak this box like Wayne tweaks the Squeezebox at Bolder.
Whats the same
Access to my owned music .the hard drive on Apple TV isnt large enough to hold all of my music and cannot utilize an external hard drive, which is an idea I didnt like at first. You know what though a lot of the music I have stored is crap . Also, it couldnt be easier to move files around with iTunes. This actually turned out to be an advantage over the Squeezebox. It turns out with the Squeezebox, I still had to have a computer turned on in the background to run the Squeezebox Server software. Also, ripping CDs and moving the external hard drive back and forth isnt nearly as easy as ripping CDs and transferring wirelessly with iTunes, or even purchasing music directly from iTunes on the fly which can be done directly on the Apple TV, laptop, or from the iTouch.
Access to internet radio .the stations Ive checked sound surprisingly good. I have access to all of the Sports Talk that I normally have in the background during home office days, and the classic rock and hair band stations sound at least as good as the stations I heard from Sirius on Squeezebox. I really dont feel like Im giving up anything from a music perspective .unless you count my willingness to listen to an occasional hair band tune.
What Ive gained .
Movies more current movies available for immediate download/rent than I found with Netflix, and better quality than streaming from my Wii. Im also a big fan of the pay as I go method rather than the monthly access charge. This is just a personal preference though watching movies is a sporadic past time for me.
Podcasts I guess I could browse through these even without Apple TV, but having all of my media on the same platform has really made it easy and more enjoyable.
Conclusion
Im sticking with the Apple TV .
Ive tried to keep this somewhat neutral so you could make your own decision if you are in the market Squeezebox is obviously a solid product and has some great advantages, especially for someone looking for that audiophile-like experience. In the end, Apple TV just works more consistently and I dont feel like I need to have an IT department around to keep it running. -
Apple Tv is excellent. Never in the history has one product bring so many tears of joy to house wives all over the planet.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Apple Tv is excellent. Never in the history has one product bring so many tears of joy to house wives all over the planet.
Wow...funny, cocky, and gramatically correct. Thanks for the comment. -
Squeezebox Touch just got released and is supposed to have very good analog output. Squeezeboxes have a very rudimentary web-based control interface available too, so you could kind of surf the web on a laptop and control the Squeezebox from same laptop. There are also apparently apps to control the Squeezebox from an iPod or iPhone.
You don't get the wonderful visual interface you would get with the AppleTV, though. AppleTV does have a case fan, but when I used to own one, it never spun up (whole top of case is passive heat sink and gets quite warm). You can pass audio through the HDMI interface, so if you are using an AVR with high quality digital processing and DACs, you could probably get quite acceptable sound. Very nice device if used as Apple intended, but if you try and add additional functionality (ATV Flash), the 1 gHz processor and 256 MB RAM start to make it very sluggish (quite snappy with stock Apple interface, though, and video quality is much better than Mac Mini to me).
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Great review Szhleppy. Thanks for taking the time. Reviews like that are much more beneficial than the ones written by "experts."
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Wow...funny, cocky, and gramatically correct. Thanks for the comment.
Funny? Yeah just a bit, cocky? No the product does all that , come with me on a Install Christmas eve, let me put HER pictures of past Christmas , a Wedding and a summer vacation on it , then load it up with Christmas music and you would think I was going to get laid right on the spot. It's comical when the get weak in the knees. I got so many hugs and kisses due to that little box.
You are very welcome .Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Funny? Yeah just a bit, cocky? No the product does all that , come with me on a Install Christmas eve, let me put HER pictures of past Christmas , a Wedding and a summer vacation on it , then load it up with Christmas music and you would think I was going to get laid right on the spot. It's comical when the get weak in the knees. I got so many hugs and kisses due to that little box.
You are very welcome .
That's great stuff...I'm convinced Damone (Fast Times...) would be better off recommending this than the Zeppelin tunes.... -
Honestly if you don't want to sacrifice SQ I would burn those files to cds and play them on a decent cd player. I had dell pc with decent soundcard with digital out running in my main system for a while and while I liked the convenience, the lossless files just didn't sound as good (especially the ambience and sense of space) as cds do, even through my entry level sacd player. But that's just me...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
This thread would probably be more beneficial in "Electronics", but I wanted to keep it together with the OP's topic....
After a week of use, I'm finding the Apple TV even more enjoyable. The "Remote" app on the iPod touch works flawlessly and makes this solution exactly what I've been looking for. I still think everything sounds great and I'm enjoying my music collection more than ever.
The real reason I'm posting an update is because of the software I've found for Apple TV. For $50, ATV Flash turns the Apple TV into an open source media device. Sure, you can find most of the software to do these things for free, but you have to be technical enough and patient enough to make it all work together. With ATV Flash, I can utilize an external hard drive with Apple TV and use it for my entire media collection (including DVD's). I also have access to Boxee and other applications that I haven't even discovered. Those of you with a dedicated HTPC will probably laugh at the things that impress me, but as a "non technical" guy, I couldn't be happier and this couldn't be easier.
....I'm not saying that this is my next step, and don't want to get into the ethical discussion of creating digital copies of the media that I already own, BUT...if I wanted to I could now import my DVD's via software like Slysoft and store these files on either the Apple TV or an external hard drive for access through the same Apple TV menu (actually, it is now an ATV Flash menu on the Apple TV...).
I'll continue to post updates of any frustrations and/or uses that I find with Apple TV. If you are at all concerned about the cost, keep in mind that I am still under the cost of a Squeezebox Touch...even with the additional software that I've purchased (well...maybe just a little over if I was the type of person to purchase Slysoft...).
http://www.atvflash.com/products_new.php -
If you want a cheap and very effective solution, go with a Patriot Box Office media player with a notebook hard drive installed. You will have to install the hard drive yourself but it is dead simple, remove a couple screws, slide the drive into the socket, and screw the cover back on... takes 10 minutes if that. You can get the PBO and a 500 GB hard drive from Amazon or NewEgg for around $150.
The PBO decodes EVERYTHING! I use it mostly with WAV files ripped straight from CD, but it decodes MP3, AAC, high resolution FLAC, just about any kind of format you'd want to listen to. The onboard Realtek chipset does a respectable job of outputing sound through the two RCA audio jacks, but it also has HDMI output and Toslink SPDIF. I'm using the Toslink to an outboard DAC. The DAC warms up the mid range, but for the extra money it was unnecessary.
It doesn't have the prettiest interface, but if you're looking to stream 2-channel music or listen to it off the hard drive, then why do you need a pretty interface? You're going to navigate to a folder or playlist of songs and start it going, right? The only downside is that you need some sort of TV or monitor to use it as neither the PBO itself nor the remote has any display to allow you to navigate the interface. -
I've had an AppleTV for about 2.5 years- my original need was based on apartment living where I had lots of media on my computer sitting in my dungeon of an office, but I wanted to enjoy in the family room.
My assessment of the ATV: I agree with the earlier comment of it being a love-hate relationship. It's oddly entertaining to use the unit as a media hub when company is visiting- much better to share a funny YouTube clip on the big screen instead of everyone huddling around a computer. Music quality often isn't a huge issue in such settings either, so streaming never bothered me. What I don't like is the lack of development for it. I think the unit could greatly benefit from users writing 'apps' for it, in a similar way as the iphone/pad/touch. I was hoping it would become a more central component of my living room entertainment, but it really hasn't....cds, dvds, and cable are still king.
Re: your question around audio quality- I haven't noticed any difference in quality when comparing the computer & appletv. As was already noted, the source file is more important than anything else. You mention you're looking to stream in the same room; if you're worried about losing quality due to the process of streaming digital media over wifi, you could use some ethernet cable to connect directly to your router. This would definitely speed up streaming, syncing, and browsing, which can (at times) be somewhat tedious.
I've patched my ATV using http://code.google.com/p/atvusb-creator/ (free!) every time a new version of Boxee is released, but always end up deleting the patch since Boxee is SLOW on the ATV.
szhleppy, I'd be interested in hearing your reaction to boxee using the pay-ware.
My apple tv is now relegated to my bedroom tv to watch movies at the new place; media streaming is now to my PS3 using MediaLink. -
Honestly if you don't want to sacrifice SQ I would burn those files to cds and play them on a decent cd player. I had dell pc with decent soundcard with digital out running in my main system for a while and while I liked the convenience, the lossless files just didn't sound as good (especially the ambience and sense of space) as cds do, even through my entry level sacd player. But that's just me...
Don't confuse the quality of the decoding with the quality of the transport. If you have a WAV on your hard drive and a soundcard with an optical output, and you run that to a DAC or receiver with a built-in DAC, it should sound the same as if you take a CD transport with an optical output and run it through the same decoding.
If you weren't using the same decoding (like you ran RCA interconnects between the SACD player and a pre-amp) then it's not a fair comparison at all as two different decoders were involved.
I've done "blind" A/B tests with several people, some who would admit to being huge audio geeks, and not one single person could tell the difference between the same track coming from a $90 Patriot Box Office media player's hard drive and played off a CD in a $500 OPPO BDP-83 when both were being decoded by a Benchmark DAC. I'm not saying the OPPO is an audiophile-grade transport, but those cost $1,000+. Even with those, there should be less jitter in the signal coming from the hard drive than the one coming from the CD transport. CD players are not sealed like HDDs and have more moving parts, CD's get dirty or scratched. Once you've left behind your vinyl, if you have a good decoder and lossless files you don't need CD's for anything other than backup / archive. (And a spare HDD is still better for that!) -
On3s&Z3r0s wrote: »The only downside is that you need some sort of TV or monitor to use it as neither the PBO itself nor the remote has any display to allow you to navigate the interface.
We are obviously approaching this type of a solution from completely opposite points-of-view...hopefully it's beneficial for those who are considering a digital media source.... -
What I don't like is the lack of development for it. I think the unit could greatly benefit from users writing 'apps' for it, in a similar way as the iphone/pad/touch. I was hoping it would become a more central component of my living room entertainment, but it really hasn't....cds, dvds, and cable are still king.
szhleppy, I'd be interested in hearing your reaction to boxee using the pay-ware.
I agree that the Apple TV could benefit from apps....I'll still depend on cable for live sports, but this will for the most part replace CD's and DVD's for me.
As for Boxee... Painfully SSSSSSLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWWWW...... I'm glad I read your comment or I would have thought that my internet connection dropped off. -
We are obviously approaching this type of a solution from completely opposite points-of-view...hopefully it's beneficial for those who are considering a digital media source....
I don't understand what you mean by opposite. These are all basically the same animal with varying degrees of bells and whistles. I'm just surprised the little boxes like the PBO and Asus O Play get overlooked in these kinds of discussions.
In my HT, I've got a Pioneer Elite AVR that's good for streaming music and a Tivo that is passable for streaming video (under Tivo approved circumstances). It's crazy to me that the tiny little box from Patriot (that costs a fraction of the others) is better than the Tivo for streaming video and almost as good as the Pio for streaming audio. Needing a monitor for a display is definitely a downer in the event you want to use it only for music, but it's not really intended for that.
I'd be stoked if someone made a device with an internal hard drive of at least 250GB for music storage, basic networking and UPnP support for streaming music and copying to and from the hard drive, and an integrated display for navigation. The Squeezebox is pretty close but no cigar as long as it's all streaming and no local storage.
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On3s&Z3r0s wrote: »I don't understand what you mean by opposite. These are all basically the same animal with varying degrees of bells and whistles. I'm just surprised the little boxes like the PBO and Asus O Play get overlooked in these kinds of discussions.I'd be stoked if someone made a device with an internal hard drive of at least 250GB for music storage, basic networking and UPnP support for streaming music and copying to and from the hard drive, and an integrated display for navigation.
By opposite, I just mean that we have a different perspective on what features/functionality are important. For example, you mentioned that the only downside for the PBO solution is a need for a display....although a minor issue to you, this would be a dealbreaker from my perspective and makes it a less desirable solution for my use than what I previously had. However, many people who browse through this will probably find the PBO or ASUS O Play appealing...that's a good thing.
I also have the opposite preference than you on hard drives....from my perspective, HD's are cheap and prone to failure. By having the ability to connect an external HD rather than just having a large local HD, a digital media player becomes much more appealing.The Squeezebox is pretty close but no cigar as long as it's all streaming and no local storage.
Not sure if you saw this, but the Squeezebox Touch has the ability to connect an external hard drive directly, eliminating the need to stream. This is the feature that pulled me back into the game.... -
By opposite, I just mean that we have a different perspective on what features/functionality are important...
Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes, if the Squeezebox Touch had been available when I purchased the PBO then it would have been a strong contender. -
My Squeezebox Touch arrived today. I like it so far. It is a neat bit of kit. It does not sound better than my CD player but as a stand alone with the RCA out, but it sounds better than I thought it would. It was only in my computer rig for a little bit but it sounded pretty good with my little Maverick Tube pre/dac via optical.
ScottI like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D -
Check out WDTV. It's cheap. It does lossless. It's easy. 2 ways to go:
1) original $99 + $99 for external hard dive
2) New networked $150 + $99 for external hard dive
If you choose 1- you have to load the hard drive from your PC & carry it to your system. No biggie- U don't do it that often. It's a full media server that does music, photos videos & movies. It reads the Metadata & displays album covers, or DVD covers for movies if you grab the pic from the web. I have had the original for 2 years, & I am very happy with it.
