Worst-Made Cars on the Road

ohskigod

Sometimes people's experience with car companies will make them not buy another one.. it happens.

Mac's ford experiece was a train wreck, yet mine was surprisingly good.

I had 2 Toyota's, one was awesome......the other was meh. Customer service from some Toyota dealers are horrible, kind of a greater than thou attitude.....which might improve given there latest tribulations.

Toyota and Nissan truxks can be great. no surprise the tacoma was sighted here, as that is a tough little truck for offroading and whatnot, but if you roll with a titan or Tundra for real work? well, good luck with that one.


it all comes down to, just buy what you like

ohskigod

jinjuku wrote: »

If you think for a minute, like GM would like you to with their commercial pitting their line up against Honda, that a Chevy Cobalt is in the same class as a Honda Civic then I have a bag or Oregano to sell you at $125 a pop.

not gonna be the case when the new Focus rolls out, at least thats my
.02. I feel ya on the cobalt though, overall the car is a fail. (though the cobalt SS with the turbo was a bad **** ride that handled like it was on rails..........sure it looked like a rental car on the outside but it sure didnt drive like one )

bobman1235

jinjuku wrote: »

If you think for a minute, like GM would like you to with their commercial pitting their line up against Honda, that a Chevy Cobalt is in the same class as a Honda Civic then I have a bag or Oregano to sell you at $125 a pop.

I don't think that at all; I completely agree with at least the "fit and finish" arguments above. Certainly any GM cars I've been in feel way too cheap compared to a comparable Honda (or, in my case, Subaru since that's what I drive).

Just saying your personal experiences are meaningless when it comes to national trends. Period.

Timothy Smith

I have had good luck with Ford cars and trucks:

My 2000 Focus was a first year model. I had a few minor recalls early, but after that it went 209,000 miles. All I did was change the oil, replace the engine timing belt once, do the brakes 2 or 3 times, several sets of tires, replaced the fuel pump once. Replaced the original battery at 190,000. It still was getting 30 mpg in the winter and 35 mpg in the summer and passed the strict WI emissions test every time. It was still running on the original clutch and struts at 209,000 last year when someone smashed into me and totalled it.

My wife's 2002 Escape is running strong at 165,000 miles with similar maintenace, but I did have to rebuild the auto transmission.

My son's 1998 Ranger has 155,000 miles with similiar experience.

My 2007 Fusion only has 30,000 miles but has had no problems.

Just my experience, but I am a mechanical engineer by training and with 29 years of experience, and I find it hard to believe that something so complicated, with so many parts, being flogged on a daily basis could last so long with so few problems. I have had more trouble with a toaster.

Kex

I don't put a lot of trust in Consumer Reports or J.D. Power ratings. After the last car that we bought, in 2006, we were contacted for the survey when the vehicle was new, and after three years. We filled it out and gave honest answers but I could totally see where others might just say "I love my xxxx" and not answer honestly. In fact, we were even offered $125 (it might have been even more) to go to some hotel one night and attend a "seminar" to share our opinions. We didn't go, since our time is worth a whole lot more than $125 an hour, especially when you factor in travel time, but the point is, the information gathering is not scientific at all IMO. For example, if respondent A answers that his car had a mechanical problem at 25,000 miles in year 2 of ownership, does anyone ever check whether or not he carried out the required services between mile 0 and mile 25K? Answer = NO, BTW. Also, if data is based on those who did go to the hotel seminar for $125 (or whatever it was), that in itself skews the results to only include those who think their time is worth less than $125 an hour, so the results are biased in that respect as well.

Finally, they don't ask for service records to encourage the respondent to actually check their facts, and whether or not their vehcile did or did not have any repairs carried out that were not part of the regular maintenance schedule. We know somebody that is always praising his Acura RL to death. He loves that car and tells everyone how fantastic it is. He's exactly the kind of owner that would give the car a very high rating if included in a survey, but he never mentions that he drops it off with the dealer constantly for this adjustment and that adjustment and this feature that isn't working properly anymore. Our cars go to the dealer once a year for servicing, and that's it.

There are plenty of American vehicles I would never buy, either because I have rented them and hated them, or because the depreciation in value is so huge that they would cost me more to own than a more satisfying alternative from a more "exotic" origin (Europe or Japan). In fact, I would never buy a Subaru, despite the excellent ratings and reviews they seem to get frequently, because when I sit in them I think they feel like totally tacky garbage and are horribly uncomfortable (apoligies in advance to any Subaru owners, it's nothing personal, other than my personal preference). Consumer Reports and J.D. Power ratings are not something that would have a very significant influence on my choices.

MacLeod wrote: »

I just bought a $30,000 Ford Edge a month ago. ...

I'm done with Ford ...

Mac, I'm so sorry that the joy of a new car has turned so sour in such a short time for you.

Amherst

jinjuku wrote: »

I have a bag or Oregano to sell you at $125 a pop.

That sounds like a great deal....do you take paypal?

bigaudiofanatic

superjunior wrote: »

Imo, Ford is the most reliable for a predicted breakdown. In my small fleet of five trucks, I have one ford, an F-600. I can set my watch to when this thing will break down. My other four trucks are gm - no problems ....

I would rather drive a GM than a ford IMO ford is junk we use to have a ford junk.

concealer404

I my Ford.

Jstas

jinjuku wrote: »

No one said that you can't get a bad Toyota/Honda/Nissan. But speaking to the Fleet averages there is simply no comparison on the reliability of the Japanese vs American makes.

I have known a couple of people that have mid 90's Tacoma's with more than 200K on them. I don't know of a single S10 or Ranger even make it close. I know more people with the S10 and Ranger than I knew with a Tacoma so that says something.

Hi, my name's John, I have a 1987 Ford Ranger with 210,000 miles on it. You should meet my brother. He has a 1997 Ranger with 183,000 miles on it.

You sure do write a good deal of words to really say nothing at all.

Timothy Smith

A lot of the disparity between perceived quality of American vs. Japanese cars isdue to the owner's biases and expectation.

Years ago, GM made "Novas" and Toyota made "Carollas" in the same plant in Freemnont CA, I think the joint venture was called NUMMI or NUUMI.

The cars were exactly the same except for badging and trim, and came down the exact same assembly line with the exact same workers putting them together.

The Toyota owners consistently rated their cars much higher than the Chevy owners.

The Toyota drivers were tying to justify their choice and biases and felt superior to the losers who bought Chevys.

On a personal level, I had a 1995 Ford Escort that I drove like a Russian dump truck for 155,000 miles with zero problems. My friend bought a more expensive Acura, took it in for all the dealer maintenance and his engine BLEW UP, I mean completely exploded at around 60,000 mile. He was still convinced that his car was far superior than my lowly Escort. In my opinion he was justifying his decision to buy the Acura. I belive if his car had been an Escort, or Neon, or Cavalier, he would have sworn off ever buying an American car again.

sucks2beme

Normally, there's a design problem with a series of driveline parts.
A line up with one engine/tranny could be stellar, the same car with
another engine/tranny could be a nightmare. Some, of course, stink
all the way around. But that's why car stories vary so much.

FiveORacing

Except for the Brakes, Accelerator and Steering, Toyotas are great cars!!:p

comfortablycurt

My tree business uses several trucks. My bucket truck is a 1978 GMC C60...never had a single problem with it. Our main pickup truck is a 1990 Chevy 1500...never had a single problem with it.

My dump truck is a 1990 Ford F-Super Duty. It's sitting in my driveway right now with a blown transmission...and it's going to be up for sale soon. Also, I have wasted MANY hours jumping that truck when it refused to start. It's been broken down very consistently about once a month or so, through the entire time that I've owned it. Nothing but problems with that POS.

My brush chipper uses a Ford engine...and it's also broken down currently, and going up for sale.

The dump truck is going to be replaced by a Chevy. I will never EVER waste my money on anything made by Ford again. I have had nothing but terrible experiences with Ford.

The things break down constantly, they're a **** to work on, it's a pain in the **** to find parts for them. I want nothing to do with them.

My Chevy's are easy to work on, parts are readily available(on the rare occasion that I even need anything).

ben62670

My Pontiac has 175,000 on it and runs fine. 30mpg hwy with the 6 in it. One day I warmed it up and the thermostat stuck. Well long story short the motor over heated badly. I had the heads rebuilt for $120 and the machinist was amazed how clean the heads were. I expect at least 75k or more from it. The thing burns zero oil. I use a half quart of marvel mystery oil every oil change, and put the other half in the gas tank.

Worst vehicle is the dodge crapavan. My problem with dodge is they will continue to pump out junk instead of redesigning it.

concealer404

Timothy Smith wrote: »

A lot of the disparity between perceived quality of American vs. Japanese cars isdue to the owner's biases and expectation.

Years ago, GM made "Novas" and Toyota made "Carollas" in the same plant in Freemnont CA, I think the joint venture was called NUMMI or NUUMI.

The cars were exactly the same except for badging and trim, and came down the exact same assembly line with the exact same workers putting them together.

The Toyota owners consistently rated their cars much higher than the Chevy owners.

The Toyota drivers were tying to justify their choice and biases and felt superior to the losers who bought Chevys.

On a personal level, I had a 1995 Ford Escort that I drove like a Russian dump truck for 155,000 miles with zero problems. My friend bought a more expensive Acura, took it in for all the dealer maintenance and his engine BLEW UP, I mean completely exploded at around 60,000 mile. He was still convinced that his car was far superior than my lowly Escort. In my opinion he was justifying his decision to buy the Acura. I belive if his car had been an Escort, or Neon, or Cavalier, he would have sworn off ever buying an American car again.

Psssstttt. Mazda BG chassis. I'm going to get a huge chuckle if you tell me that it was a GT. My 1993 Escort has 270k miles on it, and i beat it like it owes me money.

The Corolla vs. Nova thing is pretty funny, though. There are some differences/options that you could get on the Corolla that were impossible or next to impossible to get on the Nova, though. But, yeah... otherwise, true, and a scathing look at how people tick.

But again... we run into the stigma. GM made crap for years. People have this predisposition to being convinced that GM makes crap.

jinjuku

Jstas wrote: »

Hi, my name's John, I have a 1987 Ford Ranger with 210,000 miles on it. You should meet my brother. He has a 1997 Ranger with 183,000 miles on it.

You sure do write a good deal of words to really say nothing at all.

Fleet averages speak for itself... I am sure their is an 88 Cavalier out there with 180K on it too. Doesn't make one bit of difference. As a fleet it was a horrible, unreliable mess of a car. Detroit produced a lot of them.

As an owner of a high mileage, well running vehicle I am glad for your success with yours. It's nice not having a car payment:D

jinjuku

At least GM/Ford are now producing vehicles I want to consider. My problem is that nagging voice in the back of my head (If I where to purchase) saying 'You'll be sorry'. That is the legacy that Detroit will have to live with.

I know in today's market that the perception is most likely wrong. But for the life of me I can't shake it...

Jstas

jinjuku wrote: »

Fleet averages speak for itself... I am sure their is an 88 Cavalier out there with 180K on it too. Doesn't make one bit of difference. As a fleet it was a horrible, unreliable mess of a car. Detroit produced a lot of them.

As an owner of a high mileage, well running vehicle I am glad for your success with yours. It's nice not having a car payment:D

So you're anecdotal evidence is admissible but mine is not because it contradicts your point?

Yeah, congrats, you've made it to the bozo list. Bozo.


BTW, every Ford I have ever owned has broken 120,000 miles on the odometer. My current truck is only 1100 miles away from that mile stone.

concealer404

Jstas wrote: »

So you're anecdotal evidence is admissible but mine is not because it contradicts your point?

Yeah, congrats, you've made it to the bozo list. Bozo.


BTW, every Ford I have ever owned has broken 120,000 miles on the odometer. My current truck is only 1100 miles away from that mile stone.

I think he was saying that he in agreement WITH the fleet averages, using his anecdotes as supporting points to that. Not really what you're saying he was doing.

But of course, i'm stupid and have no idea how the English language works.

MacLeod

That I definitely agree with. Ford had the most boring lineup ever just a few years ago but now all their cars are sharp looking. GM and Chrysler have also come out with some very cool cars.

I'm holding out hope they can pull it together. Ford seems to be on the right path but with GM and Chrysler having to deal with the government and unions, its gonna be an uphill battle.

Timothy Smith

concealer404 wrote: »

Psssstttt. Mazda BG chassis. I'm going to get a huge chuckle if you tell me that it was a GT. My 1993 Escort has 270k miles on it, and i beat it like it owes me money.

The Corolla vs. Nova thing is pretty funny, though. There are some differences/options that you could get on the Corolla that were impossible or next to impossible to get on the Nova, though. But, yeah... otherwise, true, and a scathing look at how people tick.

But again... we run into the stigma. GM made crap for years. People have this predisposition to being convinced that GM makes crap.

Ooops,

I meant to say 1985 Escort. I don't think that was a collaboration with Mazda, more like Ford of Europe since it was supposed to be an "International" car.

My later 1993 and 1994 Escorts shared a platform with the Mada Protege (I think). Ford did/does own a good part of Toyo Kogo the parent company of Mazda. Mazda also sold re-badged Ranger as B2000's and rebadged Explorers as Navahos.

I am actually the "King" of the cheap Fords (Pinto, Escort, Escort, Tempo, Escort, Ranger, Focus, Escape, Fusion) and can't complain about any of them.

(Audio tie-in here)

Saying "Fords SUCK" makes about as much sense as saying "Polks SUCK", both are pretty good value and bang for the buck. Neither are really "snob" brands.

concealer404

Timothy Smith wrote: »

Ooops,

I meant to say 1985 Escort. I don't think that was a collaboration with Mazda, more like Ford of Europe since it was supposed to be an "International" car.

My later 1993 and 1994 Escorts shared a platform with the Mada Protege (I think). Ford did/does own a good part of Toyo Kogo the parent company of Mazda. Mazda also sold re-badged Ranger as B2000's and rebadged Explorers as Navahos.

I am actually the "King" of the cheap Fords (Pinto, Escort, Escort, Tempo, Escort, Ranger, Focus, Escape, Fusion) and can't complain about any of them.

(Audio tie-in here)

Saying "Fords SUCK" makes about as much sense as saying "Polks SUCK", both are pretty good value and bang for the buck. Neither are really "snob" brands.

Ahhh.. the 1st gen US Escort. Yep. That's Ford. Those seem to be pretty indestructable as long as you take care of them. You are correct with your 93-94 escort sharing with the Protege. And 323. And MX3.

Timothy Smith

concealer404 wrote: »

Ahhh.. the 1st gen US Escort. Yep. That's Ford. Those seem to be pretty indestructable as long as you take care of them. You are correct with your 93-94 escort sharing with the Protege. And 323. And MX3.

Dude, you know your cars. When you said you would chuckle if it was a GT, you are referring to the 1.8 Liter twin OHC which was straight from Mazda vs. the 1.9 which was Ford. Did you by chance grow up in Detroit like me?, they teach this stuff in elementry school there.

concealer404

Timothy Smith wrote: »

Dude, you know your cars. When you said you would chuckle if it was a GT, you are referring to the 1.8 Liter twin OHC which was straight from Mazda vs. the 1.9 which was Ford. Did you by chance grow up in Detroit like me?, they teach this stuff in elementry school there.

Heh, no, not Detroit. I'm just a car nerd. Audio is my second hobby, cars first. That 1.8 DOHC motor is the Mazda BP (BP05 in this case) also found in the Protege, Tracer LT-S, Escort LX-E, and pretty much the same motor used in the Miata for years.

Which makes sense, since the 2nd gen Escort GT is really just a 2-door Protege LX. The cars are mechanically identical in every way. (Escort has a bigger rear sway bar, though.)

I've always been a Toyota guy (my race car has over 230k miles on it and going strong), but in the last year or two, i've been discovering Mazdas.