How My LSiM 707s Sound To Me - A Review

DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
edited August 7 in Speakers
Introduction

A pair of LSiM 705s were in my home theater system from April of 2017 to July of 2018.
While I was very pleased with the 705's performance for both music and movies, I never could shake the desire the compare them against the 707s. The conventional wisdom is that the 705s occupy the "sweet spot in the LSiM series, and that the 707s can sound boomy and unbalanced in some rooms. It is reasonable that the 705's smaller size would make it a much better fit for a wider range of room sizes. In my room, which measures 15' wide x 18.5' long x 12' high, the LSiM 707s had more detail, clarity, speed, dynamics, and bass refinement than the 705s.

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Figure 1. Side-by-side, LSiM 707 and the smaller LSiM 705.

Setup

The LSiM 707s were set up along the same toe in guides taped to the floor for the 705s. The inner edges of the 707s are 7'-8" apart and each speaker's outer rear corner is 8.5" from the rear wall. Neither speaker is close to a corner. The listener's ears are 12' from the front plane of the speakers. A center line through each speaker forms an isosceles triangle with a base length of 8.5' and sides of 14.5'. The center lines of the speakers cross at a point 1'-10' behind the listener's ears. The center line of each speaker forms an angle of 75 degrees with the triangle base. A bubble level was used to level the speakers laterally and front to back. The ceiling is 12' and there are no room treatments.

The Sound

There was some brightness and hissy sibilance on some songs, but that went away after six hours of continuous play. I was impressed with the sound staging and bass performance immediately.

Prior to critical listening, the LSiM 707s were run in with music and movies for six days straight (144 hours). I heard improvements in midrange detail, image weight, bass detail, bass speed, bass weight and bass articulation up to the third day (72 hours of continuous playback). I did not perceive further changes after the third day.

Summary of improvements over the 705s:

1. Wider and deeper sound stage. Imaging of the 705s did not extend beyond the outer edges of the speakers. The sound stage of the 707s extends 3 feet beyond the speaker outer edges. Projection from the 707's front plane was 2-4 feet depending on recording...same as the 705s. the 707's depth was 1-2 feet further back than the 705's.
2. More image weight at sides of the sound stage.
3. More clarity, detail, and bass weight and definition. Enhanced rumble and growl around bass notes.
4. More cohesive integration with the center channel speaker, which uses the same tweeter, midrange driver, and midwoofer drivers.
5. A more immersive experience with multichannel music.
6. More tactile sensation.

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Figure 2. Out with the old. I was prepared for long back and forth sessions between the 705 and 707, but the 707s quickly displaced the 705s.

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Figure 3. In with the new. The LSiM 707s brought a significant level of refinement to the sound of two channel music, multichannel music, and 5.1 movie soundtracks.

Packaging

Unlike the case with my LSiM 705s, this time the dealer shipped each speaker in an outer box. The Styrofoam blocks of one speaker were cracked and busted, but the broken pieces still protected the speaker because they were held tightly in place by the shipping carton and by being taped to the sides of the plastic bag surrounding the speakers. Inside the box, the speakers were wrapped in a cloth sock and then a plastic bag.

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Figure 4. LSiM 707 shipping boxes.

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Figure 5. LSiM 707 manufacturer's cartons.

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Figure 6. Busted Styrofoam of one speaker.

"So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK

Comments

  • halenhalen Posts: 351
    edited August 7
    Great review.
    I am curious to know if you would trial again in a room better suited for the 705s.

    I assume the 705s would perform better in a smaller overall space.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
    As the 705s are boxed and stored, it will probably be a while before I listen to them again.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • warrenwarren Posts: 618
    Thanks for the professional review.
    Some final words,
    "If you keep banging your head against the wall,
    you're going to have headaches."
    Warren
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
    edited August 8
    Perhaps if you upgraded the tweeter to the world renowned SL2500, the 705's would have performed better...

    Since I have a few SL2500s on hand, I'll try that mod and see how it works. However that experiment will have to wait until a future time...when I am more dedicated to audio than I am now.

    I hope I didn't give the impression that I didn't like the 705s. I did and I still do. It's just that they were outgunned by the 707s...which currently sit in Polk's "flagship" position. :)
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • adabroadabro Posts: 190
    edited August 8
    thanks for the review - now I'm wondering if I should have jumped on a pair when the sale was on...

    Also - did you ever do a review of the 702's?
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
    Of course you should have...you could have sent them back if they didn't work out. I bought mine strictly out of curiosity.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 13,867
    I knew if I purchased the 705’s I would always wonder about the 707’s, that’s why I went with the 707’s despite the praise of the 705’s being a better over all speaker.
    I have had no regrets, when they opened up they superseded all my expectations, and destroyed my RTiA9’s so I am happy with the move...

    Thanks for the review DK, it is nice to see one where the 707’s came out on top..
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
    But if I had bought the 707s, I would have always wondered if the 705s would be better since they are reputed to be the better overall speaker. That's why my original plan was to evaluate them both. However, I was so happy with the 705s that I put off the 707 comparison for a long time.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,729
    In addition to these comments regarding the bass: "More clarity, detail, and bass weight and definition. Enhanced rumble and growl around bass notes." - do you feel that the bass response now extends lower and reproduces deeper frequencies than the 705s?
    Got Dayens?
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
    Yes. There is also more tactile sensation due to the 707's larger drivers and larger cabinet. The specs of each are as follows:

    705
    Overall FR: 22 - 40 kHz
    3db FR: 42 - 30 kHz

    707
    Overall FR: 20 - 40 kHz
    3db FR: 38 - 30 kHz

    The 707 goes a little lower in the bass range than the 705, but that's not all there is to it. Since the 707 is essentially a larger version of the 705, the 707 can reproduce the same bass frequencies with less effort and with more of the overtone structure intact.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
    adabro wrote: »
    .

    Also - did you ever do a review of the 702's?

    Not a separate review, but they are mentioned in figures 23 and 25 of this thread:

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/176162/downsizing-home-theater-5-1-to-3-1

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 635
    Thank you for the review. Very pro
    I sit 8’ away from my 705’s
    I would imagine 707’s would overpower in that arrangement. Otherwise I would have done the same thing when that Adorama sale came around
  • TopperDudeTopperDude Posts: 53
    Awesome and really comprehensive review :). I've only had a chance to listening to the LSiM705s which I thought were excellent. Very curious to try the big brothers now.
  • gumbay13gumbay13 Posts: 358
    Outstanding review ..as always.
    Always good to hear from some one who actually has both sets of speakers share their experience.
    Only bad thing is that now you have my interest piqued!!
    One has to stay off these boards :smile:
    AMP/Pre Pro: Marantz MM8077, AV7703
    Speakers: Fronts:LSiM 705s/ Center: LSiM 706c / Surrounds: LSim 703s
    SUB: Rythmik LV12R x2
    Source:OPPO UDP-203
  • Geoff4rfcGeoff4rfc Posts: 1,574
    gumbay13 wrote: »
    One has to stay off these boards :smile:

    LOL, one can only do that for so long. As it turns out, I've been off this board for some time, and now, I'm looking to see which direction to head for with my 703's and 706. After some minor research, and now this thread, I believe my direction is clear cut.

    Thank you Mr. Knight, for your precision and insight!!

    Draggn' knee is exhilarating, 150mph wheel standers are pretty cool too

    H.T.
    SPEAKERS: RTiA9 x 4, CSiA6, FXiA6 x 4 AVR: Integra DTR-70.4 AMPS: Emotiva XPA-3, XPA-2 SUBS: Epik Empire x 2

    SOURCE: Oppo 103 CABLES: nuthin fancy, some bought, some homemade but all are double and triple shielded

    2CH
    SPEAKERS: LSiM703 PRE Onkyo TX-NR 807 AMP XPA-2 SOURCE ERC-3 INTERCONNECTS Furez FZ162AA analog cable with R10BCS silver RCA's

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
  • Wonderful review. Thanks for documenting what I 'thought' I heard. Personally, I don't think the 707s are boomy at all. At least, not to me or in my environment. They could be used for HT alone if one wished. Maybe I'm too tainted by Cerwin-Vegas during my teens.

    I was satisfied, but, now you have me thinking I need to rework the jumpers.

  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,148
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    gumbay13 wrote: »
    One has to stay off these boards :smile:

    LOL, one can only do that for so long. As it turns out, I've been off this board for some time, and now, I'm looking to see which direction to head for with my 703's and 706. After some minor research, and now this thread, I believe my direction is clear cut.

    Thank you Mr. Knight, for your precision and insight!!

    Welcome back bro!
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,541
    @DarqueKnight,

    As always, a great, highly informative review.

    When we attended the last Polk Fest in Baltimore, I remember listening to the 707s, which really impressed me then.

    Now, I'm really curious about how you would compare their sound to the SDA SRS 1.2tls -- heavily modded, as I recall -- that it seems they replaced.

    Any thoughts?
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 MKII Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux Prisma 750 Amps or CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 Preamp, AQ King Cobra RCAs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • Gerres26Gerres26 Posts: 347
    I could be wrong but i don't believe the 707's replaced the 1.2tls at all. I remember a thread somewhere, where he was at an audio show trying to find a pair of speakers to replace or match his modded 1.2tl's and had a hard time especially at a reasonable price....once again, I could be wrong :*
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313

    Now, I'm really curious about how you would compare their sound to the SDA SRS 1.2tls -- heavily modded, as I recall -- that it seems they replaced.

    Any thoughts?

    The home theater system had heavily modified SDA SRSs. The two channel system has heavily modified SDA SRS 1.2TLs.

    Regarding the comparison of sound between the SRSs and the 707s, the thing that first comes to mind is a visual analogy. With regard to front stage size, the 707s are like watching a movie on a nice 60 inch high definition display. The SRSs are like watching the same movie on a nice 100 inch high definition projection screen.

    I've noticed that taller speakers have more of a "pull up" effect on a center channel located below a television. With the very tall SRSs, dialog appeared to come from the vertical center of the TV screen, even though the center channel speaker was well below the screen. With the LSiM 705s, dialog shifted to the bottom of the TV screen. With the taller LSiM 707s, the dialog shifted back closer to the screen's vertical center.

    The SRSs were a good timbre match for the LSiM 706c center. The 707s are an exact match. I gave up front stage size by going to the 707s, but I gained a seamless a cohesive front stage, and tight integration among the center, front, and surround speakers.

    With regard to image weight, clarity, detail, and bass performance, the 707s are closer to the modified SRSs, to the point where I don't miss the SRSs. With the 705s, I never quite "got over" the SRSs, and I would often be reminded of how something sounded with the SRSs by noting a glaring difference in the 705s sound stage size or image weight.

    s7g6a75i35zo.jpg
    Home theater with SDA SRS front speakers.

    3exmd15y1qc8.jpg
    Home theater with LSiM 707 front speakers.
    Gerres26 wrote: »
    I could be wrong but i don't believe the 707's replaced the 1.2tls at all. I remember a thread somewhere, where he was at an audio show trying to find a pair of speakers to replace or match his modded 1.2tl's and had a hard time especially at a reasonable price....once again, I could be wrong :*

    You are correct. Those threads are referenced below.


    References

    Downsizing Home Theater:
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/176162/downsizing-home-theater-5-1-to-3-1/p1

    My Search For The "Perfect" Loudspeaker:

    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2406222

    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2406630#
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,019
    So whats going on with the 705's?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
    Last I heard they were in their boxes enjoying their early retirement.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,541
    @DarqueKnight ,

    Thank you for both clearing up my confusion and characterizing differences and similarities between the SRSs and 707s.

    It sounds like the 1.2tls would not remedy the deficiencies of the SRSs in the home theater system, although they might be stronger in areas where the SRSs bested the 707s.

    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 MKII Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux Prisma 750 Amps or CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 Preamp, AQ King Cobra RCAs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,313
    edited August 14

    It sounds like the 1.2tls would not remedy the deficiencies of the SRSs in the home theater system, although they might be stronger in areas where the SRSs bested the 707s.

    I agree.

    If I had a dedicated theater room, I would go back to SRS fronts, dual CRS+ centers, and CRS+ surround speakers.

    This will do for now.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,197
    edited August 16
    Great read, thanks for sharing. The one and only time I've demoed the 707's was at the 2016 AXPONA show. Emotiva had a large theater demo using all LSiM speakers, and SVS subs. I thought they performed well in that application.

    yog7k6fgqwuu.jpg

    Post edited by WLDock on
    FAMILY ROOM
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