Thoughts on SDA's...

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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,481
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Or.....I will resort to posting hotdog gifs and pointless drivel that I am associated with.

    I thought that was wailing goats...?
    Or was it sheep?
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    edited August 2017
    Keep it up Ivan.......keep it up....I know where you live.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,481
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Keep it up Ivan.......keep it up....I know where you live.

    Good because sometimes i don't B)
  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,640
    Russ, I have already tried umpteen million times to explain that EVERYONE experiences ALL senses differently.
    Why do some people associate pain with pleasure? Why does my wife love sour stuff and I hate it?

    But to "them" hearing seems to be the magical sense that EVERYBODY has to experience in the exact same manner or they are wrong.

    My rebuttal to "them" would be the words of the immortal Dr. Evil...

    image.jpg
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    Sometimes you gotta hit them with reality, Ryan.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    lightman1 wrote: »
    How about this. A farmer has a grove of green apple trees. The best tasting green apples on the east coast and he is proud of every crop every season. Lots of folks buy them because they are the tastiest green apples ever.
    His neighbor in the next valley over has a grove of the sweetest, most recipe ready red apples. She takes pride in her trees every season. She has cultivated an apple that the finest bakeries in the world want.

    They have both produced a similar product that their customers want.
    Just a different flavor of the same basis.

    Producers of music are farmers of sound. Cultivating a flavor. That Granny Smith is a humdinger of an apple. That Washington Red is a stellar apple.
    They are apples, they taste different. But both of those farmers grew them to give them to you to enjoy.
    No matter what kind of plate they are presented on.


    Shut up and move on.
    Russ must have stopped drinking, or his electro-shock therapy is finally working...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    I don't know. So far in this thread we have plastic bananas, and now apples. :)
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I don't know. So far in this thread we have plastic bananas, and now apples. :)

    Fruit cakes.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
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    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    BlueFox wrote: »
    My question is why does it matter if the sound stage is the result of recording musicians as they play, or is created by an engineer. It is still a sound stage either way.

    It is called a discussion.
    Not everyone is going to agree, or feel the same as you or a few guys you know.

    Ya know, be open to ideas, question what you believe, see how others feel or think.

    Is that not the whole reason for the forum and thread?
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    Stew wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    The topic is "Thoughts on SDA's...."

    Something we agree on. This thread was about helping someone understand differences between SDA models. Until you hijacked it with the same old arguments trying to start something...again.


    The discussion was hijacked way back when a few started scolding several, including the O.P. for daring to call the SDA effect an "Effect"

    Or did you miss that?





  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    edited August 2017
    K_M wrote: »
    Stew wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    The topic is "Thoughts on SDA's...."

    Something we agree on. This thread was about helping someone understand differences between SDA models. Until you hijacked it with the same old arguments trying to start something...again.


    The discussion was hijacked way back when a few started scolding several, including the O.P. for daring to call the SDA effect an "Effect"

    Or did you miss that?





    A bit of hubris here, no one was "scolded" nor did anyone get on their high horse and declare or insinuate that anyone should "dare" question. Your interpretation and yours only. No one can determine how you "read" into a post, which you do quite often.

    You really need to let that chip slide off your shoulder and stop reading into things that simply aren't there.

    SDA is not an effect and I think many including myself explained why. If you or anyone else want to continue to characterize it as such, that's perfectly fine. But, expect others to chime in with their own POV as well. The science behind it does hold up that it's not an effect. So far you haven't presented any solid info against that, just because you say it is. I am not saying this in a mean spirited way nor am I scolding anyone.......(had to say that since that seems to be how certain members interpret things)

    H9



    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,309
    Hey guys, anyone notice that in spite of what's happened with this thread, Shane's still decided to buy SDA's?!?

    Congratulations are in order for Shane, now shopping for 1.2TLs on the East Coast.
    I disabled signatures.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    That's awesome, can't wait for his personal input after he gets then set-up.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    DSkip wrote: »
    Not sure where you are but you are welcome to come over sometime. I love hosting, big or small.

    Party @DSkip 's house!!!

    I'm in Lititz PA.
  • Stew
    Stew Posts: 645
    @shanedrew - Good luck with the search!
    SDA 2B-TL (Sonicap/Solen/Mills, Erse Super Q, Rings, Spikes, No-Rez)
    1000VA Dreadnought
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    RTiA3, Onkyo TX-SR605
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    FestYboy wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    Not sure where you are but you are welcome to come over sometime. I love hosting, big or small.

    Party @DSkip 's house!!!

    I'm in Lititz PA.

    We have one house about 3.5 hours west of you.
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    K_M wrote: »
    BlueFox wrote: »
    My question is why does it matter if the sound stage is the result of recording musicians as they play, or is created by an engineer. It is still a sound stage either way.

    It is called a discussion.
    Not everyone is going to agree, or feel the same as you or a few guys you know.

    Ya know, be open to ideas, question what you believe, see how others feel or think.

    Is that not the whole reason for the forum and thread?

    LOL. What does that have to do with a soundstage?

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    shanedrew wrote: »
    Which speaker provided the best overall SDA effect?

    What does any of it have to do with the original question ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
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    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    I think that question was answered early on............now the thread has deformed in a different direction.....lol
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • Very much looking forward to finding a pair. Go big or go home, right!?

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    shanedrew wrote: »
    Very much looking forward to finding a pair. Go big or go home, right!?

    As long as you have a room with breathing room and they can be set-up properly. A large pair of SDA's that are in too small a room or can't be set-up properly will have issues. That was already covered in earlier posts, so I assume you have an appropriate listening space.

    Congrats.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    shanedrew wrote: »
    Very much looking forward to finding a pair. Go big or go home, right!?

    That's my thoughts, but like already stated....ya need the room for 'em.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • I have plenty of space and gear to run them, LOL!
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    shanedrew wrote: »
    I have plenty of space and gear to run them, LOL!

    Then rock onward and grab a pair. SDA 2's can be had fairly cheaply, my personal fav though is the 2.3's....tl's even better. None of them are slouches though, even the SDA bookies.

    Word is, Polk may be coming out with a newer version of SDA speakers, so maybe save your coin or go all in on the vintage. Either way, enjoy.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • shanedrew
    shanedrew Posts: 84
    edited August 2017
    Good to know TONYB. But after all the good work everyone has done here, I would want to hear a pair with all the new agreed updates. Hope to find a stock pair to perform upgrades on myself. But certainly would take a nice modded pair as well.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    If you can find a modded pair at a decent price, jump on it. The mods really make them a different animal than stock form. Happy hunting, let us know what ya find.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Derm
    Derm Posts: 95
    shanedrew wrote: »
    Good to know TONYB. But after all the good work everyone has done here, I would want to hear a pair with all the new agreed updates. Hope to find a stock pair to perform upgrades on myself. But certainly would take a nice modded pair as well.
    Good Luck in your search.
    I would want a good properly modded set as well.
    Let us know how the search goes.


    Speakers
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    The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein
  • You were right @nooshinjohn I am interested in this thread.

    Let me state for the record, SDA is NOT an EFFECT.

    @K_M in your first post you said effect 4 times, you are wrong, it is not an effect but a dedicated technology that was created. This is opinion, it is fact. In the SDA law listed below, no where in that is SDA listed as an effect.

    @heiney9 was not trying to troll you, neither is anyone else on the forum. They are all trying to correct the notion that SDA is not an effect.

    @aprazer402 quickly corrected the OP and others about how it is not an effect.

    As for the new SDA speakers that you all are talking about, I can neither confirm or deny that is the case. Unfortunately Michael Ditullo has stepped down from his role as Head of Design and left the company. I can say, we are using SDA in our new Magnifi Mini Soundbar which is available on www.polkaudio.com and select dealers.

    Now, the bickering and instigating has to come to an end. We have had many discussions about this and about how we need to respect each other. And I do not see it in this thread.

    When it comes to SDA this is not we're agreeing to disagree to end an argument, SDA is not an effect, end of story. I urge everyone to read the SDA Law that I have listed below.

    If anyone has further questions or comments feel free to ask myself directly and I will get you the answer.

    @shanedrew, sorry your post has been hi-jacked. I hope you can find some SDA speakers in your area to enjoy!

    Thank you everyone for your cooperation.


    This is law when it comes to talking about SDA.

    You're familiar with "stereo," the basic two-channel left-and-right channel separation of audio information. What you probably don't know is that reproducing "stereo" from a pair of loudspeakers is less accurate than it seems. In fact, it can be downright inaccurate. This is the problem that Matthew Polk and the engineers at Polk Audio set out to remedy in the mid-80s, just as the audio industry was transitioning from "boutique" brands, popular with a handful of hobbyists, to more mainstream popularity. It was a time of great innovation, and Polk Audio, already an established innovator, was on the forefront.

    The problem with "stereo" was that it didn't really work. You sat in front of a pair of speakers, and your left ear heard stuff and your right ear heard stuff, and both ears heard information from both channels, left-and-right; each ear hearing information from both channels. It's called "interaural crosstalk." Interaural crosstalk occurs when left-channel (left speaker) information is heard by the right ear, and right-channel (right speaker) information is heard by the left ear. You can't avoid it, that's just the nature of sound. But it results in a completely unrealistic and inaccurate reproduction of sound, reducing the soundstage to a narrow "sweet spot," with muddy "stereo separation," and unrealistic "imaging."

    To more accurately reproduce sound as it was originally created live, with lifelike imaging and separation, Matthew Polk realized the vital importance of maintaining the integrity of the channel separation. To do it, he had to defeat interaural crosstalk. So Polk Audio engineers designed a complex passive-circuitry crossover network for a new set of multi-driver loudspeakers. It would use patented algorithms and innovative sound-phasing to effortlessly cancel interaural crosstalk between the stereo pair. They called it Stereo Dimensional Array Technology, and it produced "True Stereo," a completely new kind of sound, where the left channel information is delivered to your left ear, while the right channel information is delivered to your right ear, and never the twain shall meet. Each ear hears what it is meant to hear, with full stereo separation, as if the performance you are listening to is live.

    SDA Technology changed the sound of home audio loudspeakers. It delivered a dramatic, dynamic, broad, accurate, lifelike soundstage with pinpoint imaging and realistic reproduction. And Polk Audio's flagship SRS Series loudspeakers were built to deliver it at the most extreme, lifelike volume levels. Home audio would never be the same.
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    @KenCustomerService

    I apologize if I bickered with anyone.
    I truly find it hard to call the SDA.."sound" or whatever you call it anything else I guess out of habit.

    I meant it as having the "Effect" of changing how it sounds compared to normal stereo, not as it Being an effect.

    Either way, I get defensive easily...if "you guys" would chill out a bit, and not jump to the conclusion that I am arguing to argue, it might make things easier for all...I will try to also!

This discussion has been closed.