lsim 705 vs lsim 707 differences?

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    damnusernames wrote: »
    F1nut: true enough, not using the amp part of the (excellent) integrated.

    tonyb: it sounds very good at normal volume. It just won't go at loud volume without audible distortion. I like the 705's very much. neutral, full, well balanced, pure. But sometimes, even though, it is not fatiguing, the treble on not-so-good recordings can be irritating. They are not very forgiving, but that is exactly what I am looking for.

    Gotcha....audible distortion at higher volumes can result from a number of things. Could be the amp has hit it's peak, the recording simply sucks, or the cables you have aren't up to the task....or a combination of. Room treatments would certainly help some but given this is in your living room, any significant other may have a problem with that.

    What we know so far is, you like the speakers, it's in your living room, higher volumes sound bright and irritating, your speakers are not hard to drive.

    I like the suggestion of a Musical Fidelity integrated for you. Warmer sound up top without that brightness but retaining all the detail. You should also look into different cables. Don't know much about the Klipsch cables your using but a google search returns very little. Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables or Analysis Plus oval 9 may be a better choice....Mit shotgun series also. Neither has a glaring top end. Interconnects can vary depending on the gear your using. Kimber silver streaks or Hero's are pretty good, along with Morrow MA3....Acoustic zen Matrix 2's, Silnote Morpheus, Harmonic technology truthlink plus, MIT shotgun series, just to name a few. Of course buying used is the better option as some of these are somewhat expensive new. Cannuck audio mart is pretty popular up there.

    Takes a little trial and error to get the sound your looking for. The speakers themselves are not inherently bright so my guess is the associated gear or cables.....plus some room treatments would do you some favors.
    HT SYSTEM-
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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
    edited April 2015
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    Well....hmmm...

    that is embarassing....Like I have written previously hmmm :blush: the speakers were demos. As they had damage, I had already contacted the store to trade them in for full priced (still a good deal) new ones in boxes. (hence my post had to choose 7'S or 5')

    Now, hmmm, it appears that the damage is more than cosmetic. I have ran a few troubleshootings with the (very helpful) staff of Polk on the phone, and it seems that both the mid drivers are at least partially damaged... I first took the bridge/jumpers off to try to isolate whether the distortion was only on the mids or highs. Then unassembled the drivers and plugged them in directly at very low volume...the results were very clear.

    The distortion is audible on both sides on the mids. I believe that at low volumes the distortion is covered by the others drivers's output but gets audible as it becomes worst when you pump the volume higher.

    I really did not mean to have you loose your time, and it has been very helpfull anyway.

    Maybe some clients or employees at the store were overly optimistic once or twice with these units.

    I hope you will forgive me, I had not thought of that eventuality earlier.

    Shame on me I guess.

    I will know when I'll get the new ones.

    :-(

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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    Hey no harm no foul. The thread provided information for now and future users.
    You can't count the day lost when people learn something new.

    Good luck and keep us posted when your system gets put back together.

    Cheers and happy listening...don't be a stranger
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    No biggie pal, looks like everything said is mute until you get some properly working speakers in the door. Then you can revisit this thread and fill us in on how your progressing. Good luck to you.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • ukcolin99
    ukcolin99 Posts: 286
    edited April 2015
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    As always, reading just about any thread in this forum, I learnt (learned) something.
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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Hey no harm no foul. The thread provided information for now and future users.
    You can't count the day lost when people learn something new.

    Good luck and keep us posted when your system gets put back together.

    Cheers and happy listening...don't be a stranger

    Thanks

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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    tonyb wrote: »
    No biggie pal, looks like everything said is mute until you get some properly working speakers in the door. Then you can revisit this thread and fill us in on how your progressing. Good luck to you.

    Will do

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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,993
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    tonyb wrote: »
    damnusernames wrote: »
    it sounds very good at normal volume. It just won't go at loud volume without audible distortion. I like the 705's very much. neutral, full, well balanced, pure. But sometimes, even though, it is not fatiguing, the treble on not-so-good recordings can be irritating. They are not very forgiving, but that is exactly what I am looking for.

    Gotcha....audible distortion at higher volumes can result from a number of things. Could be the amp has hit it's peak, the recording simply sucks, or the cables you have aren't up to the task....or a combination of. Room treatments would certainly help some but given this is in your living room, any significant other may have a problem with that.

    What we know so far is, you like the speakers, it's in your living room, higher volumes sound bright and irritating, your speakers are not hard to drive.

    I like the suggestion of a Musical Fidelity integrated for you. Warmer sound up top without that brightness but retaining all the detail. You should also look into different cables. Don't know much about the Klipsch cables your using but a google search returns very little. Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables or Analysis Plus oval 9 may be a better choice....Mit shotgun series also. Neither has a glaring top end. Interconnects can vary depending on the gear your using. Kimber silver streaks or Hero's are pretty good, along with Morrow MA3....Acoustic zen Matrix 2's, Silnote Morpheus, Harmonic technology truthlink plus, MIT shotgun series, just to name a few. Of course buying used is the better option as some of these are somewhat expensive new. Cannuck audio mart is pretty popular up there.

    Takes a little trial and error to get the sound your looking for. The speakers themselves are not inherently bright so my guess is the associated gear or cables.....plus some room treatments would do you some favors.

    What @damnusernames describes above is exactly what I experienced with the 707s. I tried many different source/amp/tube/cable combos in different sized rooms and with varying placement. Did everything I could to warm thinks up and coax a smoother top end, short of HEAVY HEAVY room treatments in the larger room. (I've installed as many traps and panels as I can live with). Never could get happy with them for long-term use and ended up selling them.

    The recently purchased 703s sound better balanced to me (I know - not generally accepted) and not remotely fatiguing. I always wondered if the 707s I had were an early iteration that was later tweaked before production was ramped up?

    I really don't have anything constructive to add other than I think, assuming both my 707s and damnusernames' 705's are not somehow compromised, he might not Get Happy without significant room treatments. But being forced to treat a room is not the worse thing in the world! Can't hurt, and will likely help a LOT.


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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    Finally got my speakers ! Lsim 705.

    These were clearance of (now closed) futureshop in canada. I believe best buy is not having the intention of keeping the line anymore.

    One of the box was in pretty bad shape. But hey....it is the content that matters and the Best buy's staff were very reassuring concerning this.

    I had to contact Mr. Moser (polk,s rep in canada). The rubbers around the drivers were whitish grey on one of the 2 speakers.

    Mr. Moser was nice and told me to remove them to wash them and offered to send new ones if it did not solve the problem.

    Now, they still look different from the other speaker's but I can live with that.

    The real problem being that one of the drivers is (AGAIN!!) busted.

    Contacted the store, waiting for reply.

    Growing tired of moving these beasts around.

    fyi, I am asbolutely certain that a driver is not doing its job. Changed source, songs, interconnects, cable, interpolate the speakers cable, remove jumpers to isolate highs and lows... Pretty obvious to any reasonable ears set.

    I have to add that the manager of the best buy store was very nice dealing with my first issue as well as Mr. Moser.

    Yet, I am a bit discouraged.

    :-(

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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    Just to clarify one thing, I am just disapointed about the situation. I do not believe that Polk or Best Buy did anything wrong.

    I only think that this is a very particuliar situation (1st pair demos, 2nd pair clearance from a third party seller for a closed store).

    The BB manager has been more than helpful in honoring futureshop's return policy.

    I can't wait to listen to normal 705's. I hope they will have some left

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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    DSkip wrote: »
    Contact Polk and deal with them. If its just a bad driver, they'll be happy to ship one out to you.

    That makes sense. Nevertheless when I buy a product that is defective out of the box I tend to want it replaced rather than repaired.

    However If BBuy can't find a replacement, I'll see what I can do in terms of repair.

    I'll keep you posted on my thoughts (humbly) on the lsim 705 when I'll have properly working ones.

    Thanks

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  • btown1985
    btown1985 Posts: 113
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    Dealing with a tweeter/driver issue right now as well. Direct with Polk has been fairly pleasant, depending on who answers your call.
    LSiM 705 and 706c, Def Tech Supercube I, Anthem AVM20 Processor, Oppo BDP-105D, Adcom GFA-5503, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M, Panamax Elite 15PFi
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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
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    What exactly was wrong with the driver? I had issues with my 705's right out of the box as well. Second pair have been perfect.
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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
    edited April 2015
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    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    What exactly was wrong with the driver? I had issues with my 705's right out of the box as well. Second pair have been perfect.

    hmmm....interesting...

    Well 4 different 705s have been in my living room. Only one of them is working normally.

    To be honest, the 2 first ones were demos in store, so they totally might have been damaged during listening sessions in store.

    The finish quality on these speakers being so awesome, I don't believe the cie. would lack so much attention to details as to let 3 out of 4 speakers out of the factory while not working flawlessly.

    Might be transport, handling, testing.

    now the 2 ones that I have now...

    One of the two seems fine.

    The other will produce "screeching" or "scratching" "distortion in background like" "vibration" sound on mid-high frequencies. (saxophone, some piano notes, electronic music, test tones etc...)

    I do not know what exactly is wrong with it, the only thing that I am sure about is, that it is not functioning normally and it is one of the 2 upper drivers (I would bet for the highest one, from the ground)

    I wanted/hesitated for 707's (given room size and talk with polk's support) , but could not find them at reasonable price in canada. Polk direct is usa only. :-(

    I have to admit that I am very impatient now to have a "normal" set up and quit investing time, worries and muscles (these are heavy) and listen to music.

    I hope I won't regret my decision to go with these instead of BW or ML or Kef...starting to doubt. Not really quality wise but diffusion wise.

    The store manager, Best Buy, was a bit in disbelief and more or so pleasing...funny, given the trouble this causes me

    I invited him home so he could hear himself...





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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    Hi everyone,

    I am not sure whether I should make a new discussion about this now.

    I ended up having no reasonable choice but to return my 2nd pair of 705.

    Unfortunately, Best Buy will not be keeping the lsim line in Canada.

    So they are almost impossible to find...hence they loose quite a bit of value on the used market and given the problems I had with my second pair, I got rid of it and now look forward to new speakers. Different brand.

    It might have been only a driver problem, but If i buy a new car and it does not start, I want another one, I don't want it repaired.

    I really wanted 707's bad, but can't find good deals on them here.

    Honnestly mailing such a heavy speaker is a problem, If one should have a problem with his purchase it becomes quite a hassle to send it back for repair; you need a local dealer.

    I am disapointed as these were very promising. It has been a lot of trouble to move these around all the time and the service in canada is very limited (one has to take the speakers physically to a given store for repair). That store is a 350 miles round trip from where I live.

    I am looking for suggestions from you people for replacement speakers.

    Looking for

    2 channels

    equivalent to lsim 707 in size, performance and price.( under 5k)


    I followed dskip's and other's advices and sold my Yamaha as-2000. Got quite a good price for it actually.

    I might settle for a micromega (French made, 10 years warranty) 200 w/channel in 8 ohms amp. 5 500 $ but seems to be worth every penny as it also deals with my wireless problem. It deals with wifi instead of blue tooth. And for a limited time, I can get it for around 3200$ taxes in.

    Suggestion for speakers?

    Thanks



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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,072
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    damnusernames wrote: »
    I might settle for a micromega (French made, 10 years warranty) 200 w/channel in 8 ohms amp. 5 500 $ but seems to be worth every penny as it also deals with my wireless problem. It deals with wifi instead of blue tooth. And for a limited time, I can get it for around 3200$ taxes in.

    What is the model? I assume you are talking about an integrated amp not an amp. Looks like their stuff is class d unless you are looking at an older one not on their website?

    Suggestions for speakers under $5k are going to be all over the place. Usher, Focal, Totem, Goldenear, there are so many. None of them are bad, it's personal preference.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
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    You couldn't get a replacement driver from Polk Canada?
    So they are almost impossible to find...hence they loose quite a bit of value on the used market

    That should increase the value.
    Suggestion for speakers?

    What's available to you locally?



    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    nbrowser wrote: »
    damnusernames, where abouts are you here in Canada?

    quebec

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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
    edited May 2015
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    Nightfall wrote: »
    damnusernames wrote: »
    I might settle for a micromega (French made, 10 years warranty) 200 w/channel in 8 ohms amp. 5 500 $ but seems to be worth every penny as it also deals with my wireless problem. It deals with wifi instead of blue tooth. And for a limited time, I can get it for around 3200$ taxes in.

    What is the model? I assume you are talking about an integrated amp not an amp. Looks like their stuff is class d unless you are looking at an older one not on their website?

    Suggestions for speakers under $5k are going to be all over the place. Usher, Focal, Totem, Goldenear, there are so many. None of them are bad, it's personal preference.

    as-400 (found in the "streamer" section of their site...strangely) Yes it is an integrated.

    For under 5000 $ It seems somewhat difficult to find a monoblock, pre amp here. Or even stereo and pre amp. That being said, I find the pre amps ridiculously priced for an almost empty box.

    Emotiva would be intersting but the price for delivery, taxes, levies and currecy exchange makes it a bit frigthening. Also if you have a problem, shipping to another country for repair is looking for trouble and expenses and loosing your equipement for like...a year.

    In the past aparently class d was bad. IT has has gotten very good recently though. Even Devialet uses an hybrid of d an a on some products.

    Bang and Olufsen have been extremely successful with their ace (was it ace ?) module sold to belcanto, red dragon audio, rotel etc...





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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    F1nut wrote: »
    You couldn't get a replacement driver from Polk Canada?
    So they are almost impossible to find...hence they loose quite a bit of value on the used market

    That should increase the value.

    Well, theorically yes, but here almost no one sees polk has audiophile grade and the scarcity of the product makes it almost impossible to sell back when one wants to upgrade.
    Suggestion for speakers?

    What's available to you locally?

    The usual (*sigh*).

    Martin logan, good but to finicky placement-wise for me.
    Focal, fantastic speakers but not so...exciting.
    Totem...great I guess...overpriced.
    Cambridge
    bang and olufsen (WAY out of my budget, unfortunately)
    paradigm
    klipsch (some interesting products actually)
    mirage
    thiel
    magnepan
    sonus faber
    vienna acoustic
    bower and wilkins (any thought on the cm 10 s2 ?)

    further away

    Canton (very pricey)
    mordan short
    whaferdale
    quad

    That is about what comes on my mind right now.



    the rest not quite worth mentioning.



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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    As for getting a replacement for the broken driver, Prestige Electronique (eastern canada place for polk's warranty) mentioned that I would void the warranty if I changed the driver myself. The told me so when I purchased my first pair.

    Moreover, like I said, I really am struggling to accept the idea that I am buying a brand new product that is broken out of the box and getting it fixed instead of replaced.

    If it would be a few months old then ok, but out of the box, not for me.


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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
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    If it's broken out of the box I would think it's probably due to rough handling during shipping. That would give me more confidence that once it's repaired, it would be trouble free. Just my opinion.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
    edited May 2015
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    drumminman wrote: »
    If it's broken out of the box I would think it's probably due to rough handling during shipping. That would give me more confidence that once it's repaired, it would be trouble free. Just my opinion.

    you are most likely right, but I am really not the gambler type. If the handling was rough enough to actually break parts the future reliability of the speaker might be compromised.

    I would like to remind you that keeping the speaker would have also meant that I would drive 6-7 hours with the speaker in my car, hoping that the repair center had the parts available so I don't have to go twice.

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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    DSkip wrote: »
    You can't look at a preamp as a whole lot of nothing. Its functions are simple to accomplish, but the influence on the sound that a good preamp adds is not to be taken lightly. It all boils down to quality of parts and quality of design.

    Also, your comment on Totem being overpriced is one that I can somewhat understand given the appearance of the product, but that isn't necessarily the case.


    Question - what are you looking for in this system? It seems like you want bang for your buck more than anything. Not saying you don't want the fidelity that comes with it, but I get the sense that you just don't want to feel like you were ripped off.

    That is a very good summary if my wishes indeed dear sir!! :)

    indeed I work "on a budget" (well, around 8 k to 10 k is quite a good chunk of money and even if in the audio world, it is not much, it is probably a dream budget for many).

    Concerning totem, i don't know in usa but here totem hawks for example will make your wallet around 3700 $ lighter.

    And I find it difficult to believe that they will go down to 32 hz with 5.5 inches woofers at -3db "with proper room positioning".

    I am not in any ways suggesting that they are not good, just that their stats may seem a tad on the optimistic side.

    any way I am disgressing again. Like I said at first, yes, I am looking at a good quality/price ratio and looks helps too (not with me but I am not alone so...)










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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
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    DSkip wrote: »
    I had Danny over a few nights ago and he was left shaking his head at how a single 7" woofer in my 6311's could make you feel the bass without necessarily hearing the bass. This was in my living room with a vaulted ceiling that opens up to a loft upstairs, and an attached dining room and kitchen downstairs. I had them placed without a wall behind them to support the bass, and it was still tremendous.

    With that said, I'd probably augment most 'cheaper' Totems with a subwoofer. There are two brands I really appreciate for their bang/buck ratio: Polk and Usher. JWM also has absurd bang/buck right now, but not sure they'd be in your price range.

    What are your listening habits? Do you sit down for hours and listen, or do you listen for 15-30 minutes here and there?

    Hello Dskip, I did not know JWM, went to their site; quite amazing work indeed!

    With delivery, prov + fed taxes, levies, import taxes, currecny exchange...they are unfortunatly too expensive for me

    But I had a blast reading the site, thanks.

    interesting description about your ushers. BTW 7 inches has more or so 60 % more area than 5.5. But is it is yet impressive. I thought "feeling" the bass was 10 inches and beyond territory.

    That being said, I am looking for a bass you can feel, but i NEED definition (different actual notes like all the rest of the music, not just a very low sound that shakes wall). I would trade precision for power anytime. main problem being to be able to reproduce the sound (low hz)

    I both sit for long sessions and short ones, so fatigue is a factor.

    What do you thing about nht ?? And do you have experience with the bw cm ?

    I am not sure that I can audition usher close to where I live.

    I trust that polk manufactures great speakers (well, in the lsim range) but they are very scarse here.

    My listening position varies greatly so magnaplanar are off the list and I listen from hardcore to classical and everything in between.






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  • RocketOCannon
    RocketOCannon Posts: 83
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    Dan / Mantis laid it out nicely in an earlier response. I whole heartedly concur with his opinions on NAD. I have NAD and LSiM….with a clean abundance of power, those 705s or 707s will sing… loud, dynamic and clear.

    Good luck!
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  • damnusernames
    damnusernames Posts: 84
    edited June 2015
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    RocketOCannon wrote: »
    Dan / Mantis laid it out nicely in an earlier response. I whole heartedly concur with his opinions on NAD. I have NAD and LSiM….with a clean abundance of power, those 705s or 707s will sing… loud, dynamic and clear.

    Good luck!

    Well, thank you! I am considering other options right now. Like I posted earlier, high end Polk are though to find and support here.

    I am VERY interested in auditioning Goldenear Tritons.

    1600 active watts per channel (no mistakes here) of dedicated bass really can't go wrong.

    The reviews are rave and the design is pretty good.

    The stats and specs are just beyond belief.

    freq response 14 hz (!!!) - 35 khz

    Three - 5˝ x 9˝ Long-Throw Quadratic Subwoofer Bass Drivers

    Four - 7˝ x 10˝ Quadratic Planar Infrasonic Radiators

    Two - 5-1/4" High-Definition
    Cast-Basket MVPP™
    Upper-Bass/Mid Drivers

    One - HVFR™ High-Velocity
    Folded Ribbon Tweeter

    and that is per channel...

    I need to drive quite a distance to find them but I have to go in an area where they sell these next week.

    http://www.goldenear.com/products/triton-series

    These were suggested in a private message I had from a forum member.
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  • JeremyJ
    JeremyJ Posts: 17
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    Ebay is having a sale on refurb Polks. Get the 707's. I'm running the 707's, 706, and 702's and it is AMAZING!!!!! You won't regret it.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    damnusernames wrote: »
    [
    Well, thank you! I am considering other options right now. Like I posted earlier, high end Polk are though to find and support here..

    Huh.....the LSIM's are Polks top speakers and well supported.

    The Golden ears.....hit or miss, some like them some don't. Best to get your ears on them before dropping the coinage.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • JeremyJ
    JeremyJ Posts: 17
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    Sale on refurbs is over. :( They're still listed at good prices though.
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