Inside the HDMI cable scam
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emoxley
Posts: 205
I thought some of you would be interested in reading this article from MSNBC.com: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38731070/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/
Some of us have known this for a long time, so the article is no surprise. There's lots of people getting into HT that needs to learn this, so companies like Monster won't thrive on their naive thinking...........
Some of us have known this for a long time, so the article is no surprise. There's lots of people getting into HT that needs to learn this, so companies like Monster won't thrive on their naive thinking...........
Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP
Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver
Oppo BDP-83 blu ray player
Polk Audio LSi9 front speakers
Polk Audio LSiC center speaker
Sony SS-MB100H rear speakers
SVS PC12-NSD powered subwoofer
Pioneer PL-514 turntable
Logitech Harmony 628 Universal Remote
Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver
Oppo BDP-83 blu ray player
Polk Audio LSi9 front speakers
Polk Audio LSiC center speaker
Sony SS-MB100H rear speakers
SVS PC12-NSD powered subwoofer
Pioneer PL-514 turntable
Logitech Harmony 628 Universal Remote
Post edited by emoxley on
Comments
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mdaudioguy wrote: »
Oops, sorry 'bout that.............:oSamsung HL61A750 LED DLP
Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver
Oppo BDP-83 blu ray player
Polk Audio LSi9 front speakers
Polk Audio LSiC center speaker
Sony SS-MB100H rear speakers
SVS PC12-NSD powered subwoofer
Pioneer PL-514 turntable
Logitech Harmony 628 Universal Remote -
search button...been discussed so many times before. if your dumb enough to buy them and not do the research ahead of time I feel no sympathy for you.
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^What he said.Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
search button...been discussed so many times before. if your dumb enough to buy them and not do the research ahead of time I feel no sympathy for you.
I need a tissue.... -
It is true that this has been discussed a number of times and is well known to members here. Still most people who buy an HDMI cable or two are pretty much at the mercy of the guy who is selling them their first HDTV or Blu-ray player..etc.
Considering how much misinformation is out there for the general public and the real fact that High Tech is a big mystery to the average consumer it's EASY for Monster or any other maker to make claims that seem very very Believable to most.
It's a shame...but it is true. Maybe we need an entire box of tissues. lol
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
So now that we busted open the can of worms for HDMI cables, anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?
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So now that we busted open the can of worms for HDMI cables, anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?
Search function is your friend. Both speaker cable+analog interconnect discussions have gone on way too many times to be brought up again!
In my experience, I've heard major differences. Others have not. The other group, refuses to give them a try. To each their own.Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
You are right my man, their is a lot of info out there and i'm kind of gun shy right now on purchasing a pair because of the -Lack-of-moola- syndrome. But maybe if I catch a break soon i'll check some out. Snow has pair right now that i'm debating on.... DAMN Funds!
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So now that we busted open the can of worms for HDMI cables, anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?
Nice try! :rolleyes: -
So now that we busted open the can of worms for HDMI cables, anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?DARE TO SOAR:
Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life -
I just love that Monster Cable is one of the main subjects. As mentioned by Treitz, if you're not aware of how your money is spent.....CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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So now that we busted open the can of worms for HDMI cables, anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?
Nope.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
In case it's not clear what's going on here, brick & mortar stores have shifted to a revenue model whereby they make very little money on the "Big Ticket" item such as a TV or stereo itself -- since most consumers do a fair amount of comparison shopping for that, including on-line -- and now make very healthy margins on accessories such as HDMI cables.
Basically, it's all these over-priced accessories that are keeping brick & mortar stores open: The operating cost per square foot for a Best Buy is *huge* compared to an Amazon.Com or similar.
Most people here are probably aware that places like monoprice.com have very good prices on decent quality audio/video cables. If not, check'em out next time you need some!
I do find it interesting that Polk themselves is now advertising "Monster Cable wiring inside!" on some of their speakers. I guess that's successful marketing for you -- associating a brand with "well, at least it won't suck." (Bose is a master of this!)
---Joel -
So now that we busted open the can of worms for HDMI cables, anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?
a good starting off speaker cable for me was the MonoPrice
i used these
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2817&seq=1&format=2
with these
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2801&seq=1&format=2
i now have MIT cables and after the burnt in. they is a BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!mole' -
In case it's not clear what's going on here, brick & mortar stores have shifted to a revenue model whereby they make very little money on the "Big Ticket" item... and now make very healthy margins on accessories such as HDMI cables....
That's nothing new. I recall the same thing back in the early 90's when I worked at a national chain computer store where I was able to buy at store cost--Printers had very low margin, while printer cables and the like were 50%-80% or more margin.____________________
This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
I don't know why everybody gets so hung up on having to use the incredibly powerful/all knowing search feature before posting--WTH, you have to search the whole of Club Polk before posting something that might be of interest to others? Please!It is true that this has been discussed a number of times and is well known to members here. Still most people who buy an HDMI cable or two are pretty much at the mercy of the guy who is selling them their first HDTV or Blu-ray player..etc.
Considering how much misinformation is out there for the general public and the real fact that High Tech is a big mystery to the average consumer it's EASY for Monster or any other maker to make claims that seem very very Believable to most.
...
+1
I also don't understand why a consumer would be considered 'dumb' because they are not all knowing. Technology is advancing at such a fast rate--it's not unexpected for 'lay' people to fall behind with respect to what is legit or hyper marketing strategies, esp., as CNH said, with all the misinformation already out there.____________________
This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
Basically, it's all these over-priced accessories that are keeping brick & mortar stores open: The operating cost per square foot for a Best Buy is *huge* compared to an Amazon.Com or similar.
---Joel
No Joke.
The space that Bose, for example, occupies by contract can cost anywhere from 500,000 to 1 million per store. That's a factual number but I'm not sure if that was followed up with yearly or not.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
I do find it interesting that Polk themselves is now advertising "Monster Cable wiring inside!" on some of their speakers. I guess that's successful marketing for you -- associating a brand with "well, at least it won't suck." (Bose is a master of this!)
---Joel -
mdaudioguy wrote: »Really? I've never seen this.
Agreed. What does it say that? -
Also,
You have to watch out for those bundle "deals" Bestbuy offers. Where they throw in the HDMI cable, cleaning wipes and dumb squad installation for an extra $100. What a rip. Accessories is where places like Bestbuy make their bottom line.~Dan
Projector: Epson 705HD on 106" DaLite
TV: Samsung 50" Plasma PN50B550
Receiver: Onkyo 607
Fronts: Polk 1000i
Center: Polk Csi40
Rears: Polk Fxi30
Sub: Velodyne Minivee 10
PS3 and Xbox -
....and the extended warranties.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
...and installations... Check out what they charge to program your remote!
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So now that we busted open the can of worms for HDMI cables, anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?
I'm not a believer. If someone could show that, under normal operating conditions, a cable would make a real difference, I'd be happy with that. It's too easy to spot what's simply inadequate (too thin for too long a run, picking up interference, etc.), it's very tough to say what's enough versus too much.
Anyways, there's a reason that error correction is included in most digital standards. Technology is unfortunately a mystery for many people. To me, it's not. To my mum, it is. To my stepfather, it is but he sees more money as equaling a better product.polkaudio Monitor 5 Series II
polkaudio SDA-1 (with the SL1000)
TEAC AG-H300 MK III stereo receiver
beyerdynamic DT-880 Premium (600 Ω) headphones
SENNHEISER HD-555 headphones
Little Dot MK IV tube headphone amp
Little Dot DAC_I balanced D/A converter -
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I do find it interesting that Polk themselves is now advertising "Monster Cable wiring inside!" on some of their speakers. I guess that's successful marketing for you -- associating a brand with "well, at least it won't suck." (Bose is a master of this!)
---Joel
Huh?I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
Deleted since it doesn't really perain to HDMI cables"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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So now that we busted open the can of worms for HDMI cables, anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?
We didn't bust open anything. HDMI has been discussed to death along with high end cables. If your happy with your lamp cord,rock on, the truth comes from experience. If you have none,then you have nothing to add to the thread.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
...anyone care to elaborate performance on speaker cables? Some say a lamp cord can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar cables. Any truth to that I ask?
There really is no need for anyone to elaborate. Just use the same common sense and reasoning you would use for any other consumer purchase. Let's apply your question to other fields of merchandise:
"Some say a $100 off-the-rack men's suit can perform just as good as those tailor made 1000 dollar suits. Any truth to that I ask?"
"Some say a $3000 used car can perform just as good as those 100,000 dollar sports cars. Any truth to that I ask?"
"Some say a $100 set of tires can perform just as good as those 1000 dollar high performance tires. Any truth to that I ask?"
In the three previous examples, most people have no difficulty understanding that under certain use circumstances:
There may be little or no performance difference between a $100 suit and a $1000 suit.
For traveling to work and the grocery store, there may be little to no difference between a $3000 used car and a $100,000 sports car.
For normal driving, with a vehicle of modest to low performance, there may be little to no difference between a set of $100 tires and a set costing $1000.
In some systems, there will be no discernible difference between lamp cord and a $1000 high performance, well engineered speaker cable. However, I would hope that people would have the presence of mind to match the performance level of cables and other accessories to the performance level of the electronics and speakers in their audio and video systems.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!