adcom vs rotel?
eclimax13
Posts: 168
so adcom gfa 7000 or rotel rmb 1075 for my lsi 25, lsic, lsifx setup?...i can get the adcom about $200 cheaper but it does not have a remote function...im thinking i can just leave it on and plug it into the back of my denon 3806?
Theater: Epson 8500ub, Elite 120" screen, Lsic, Lsi25, Lsifx, SVS Pc12plus, SVS Pc12plus, Emotiva Xpa-5, Denon Avr3311ci, Sony Bdps1000es
Living Room: Panasonic TCP58VT25, PS3, Energy FPS, Onkyo Tx sr707, Sony Ps3, DswmicroPro 2000
Bed Room: Panasonic TCP50x1, Samsung Bd c7500
Weight Room: Panasonic TCP46G10, Polk Pswi225, PS3
Living Room: Panasonic TCP58VT25, PS3, Energy FPS, Onkyo Tx sr707, Sony Ps3, DswmicroPro 2000
Bed Room: Panasonic TCP50x1, Samsung Bd c7500
Weight Room: Panasonic TCP46G10, Polk Pswi225, PS3
Post edited by eclimax13 on
Comments
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No, you can't plug a power amp into the switched outlet on the 3806. It will draw too much current, and may damage the reciever. Most switched outlets are rated for 100W to 125W max.
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Plug it into the wall out not the receiver and use the 12 volt trigger option to turn it off and on.
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Rotel RMB 1075 will sounds nicer than Adcom GFA7000 if you have Lsi setup. It's based on my own experiences with both amp. It's nothing wrong with GFA7000 but if you could bare the extra cost of the rotel, I would suggest Rotel. Otherwise, Adcom will be OK too.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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For LSis, I found Rotel to drive them better than Adcom, albeit I use a smaller Adcom 535 to try it out, against Rotel RSX-1065. It could be like comparing apple and orange, but I like the details coming out of Rotel better than Adcom.I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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I would get a B&K or a Parasound
RT1 -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »I would get a B&K or a Parasound
RT1
I would get Krell or Mark Levinson"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Levinson kills Krell.............as a matter of fact......well you should stay tuned.
RT1 -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »Levinson kills Krell.............as a matter of fact......well you should stay tuned.
RT1
I know it does! A buddy of mine has an electronics distribution/marketing company and he uses 3 Levinson No. 33's for the front stage of his Revel Ultima Salon HT speaker system.
Very impressive.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »I would get a B&K or a Parasound
RT1
Oh save me!!! No tubes!!! :eek: After all...tubes rule...:D"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »Levinson kills Krell.............as a matter of fact......well you should stay tuned.
RT1
is that right? I thought MCL is finesse, smooth, polite, pedigreed (of which one day I will own one, hoping for) vs. Krell that is brute, powerful, manly man, Tim the "Toolman" Taylor?I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie. -
is that right? I thought MCL is finesse, smooth, polite, pedigreed (of which one day I will own one, hoping for) vs. Krell that is brute, powerful, manly man, Tim the "Toolman" Taylor?
So, in a way you are saying that the MCL is the Brits and the Krell is us, the yanks? hehehe
Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
MCL is as American as apple pie...
I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie. -
I strongly disagree. As I have Installed both companies mid to flagship units, nothing and I mean nothing Kills Krell anything. As good maybe, a better fit for his or her speakers, maybe but kill no way man.reeltrouble1 wrote: »Levinson kills Krell.............as a matter of fact......well you should stay tuned.
RT1
Mark Levinston builds serious gear and I'm completely in love, but I know Big Daddy Krell is no push over.
DanDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I see your Levinson and Krell and raise you a Pass.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Don't make me say the "M" word.
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Mcintosh or MBL:D -
Levinson and Krell killer.http://bryston.com/28bsst_m.htmlTesting
Testing
Testing -
Bryston killer

Pass Laboratories' X amplifier series represents the efforts of designer Nelson Pass to prove that simple linear amplifier topologies can be scaled to provide high-quality audio performance at very high power levels. The handsome X1000 monoblock under scrutiny here, the largest and most powerful amp in the Pass stable, makes 1000W into 8 ohms and a mighty 2000W into 4 ohms. The amplifier has no global negative feedback, and only two gain stages: the front-end provides all the voltage gain and feeds a high-current follower stage.
Pass's Supersymmetry Balanced Single-Ended class-A topology was actually granted a US patent in 1994. Using a balanced gain-stage, the distortion and noise are made absolutely symmetric at the two outputs. The signal is amplified, while noise and distortion are canceled. In a nutshell, this is achieved by precise matching of the two halves of the circuit and "cross-coupling" their internal drive signals. (See the "Supersymmetry Explained" Sidebar for details.)
The X1000's power supply begins with a pair of big-boy toroidal transformers, individually rated at 1500VA continuous. From the paperwork, I gather that under actual conditions they'll do about 2000VA continuous per transformer, and at least half that again for short periods. Each transformer has its own circuit breaker and rectifier bridge. The breaker current is set at 20 amps, although the breakers will allow transients on the order of 300A to pass. To avoid a huge inrush of current during charge-up, all four transformer primaries are equipped with inrush suppressors, limiting current to 100A or so.
The transformers are potted in steel cans to minimize mechanical and magnetic noise, and the balance of the amplifier is crafted mostly of aluminum. There are eight computer-grade capacitors (large, old-style cans) at 25,000µF and 75V, making up over 240,000µF of storage capacitance (700 Joules of stored energy). These are used to create the unregulated output rails, at ±75V at 30 amps. A smaller transformer generates the ±99V rail voltages for the front-end circuitry. The voltage rails are passively filtered to produce a ripple voltage of only a few millivolts, "none of which shows up at the output." In his humorous and very engaging manual, Nelson Pass goes on to explain that the extra front-end supply lowers the system's distortion and noise and allows it to "swing the output stage rail-to-rail with losses on the order of only a volt or so, extracting every last possible watt."
The "balanced single-ended" front-end gain stage comprises a differential pair of MOSFETs with local negative feedback. They're biased by a constant-current source and cascoded for best effect. This stage develops the voltage gain and presents it to a large bank of follower MOSFET power transistors. "Originally it was assumed we would have to enclose this output stage in a Supersymmetry loop to get the performance we wanted, but ultimately we found that we could operate it without feedback as long as we put a healthy bias current through it. For the X1000, that's about 500W of dissipation per channel."
The 80 (!) output power MOSFETs are actually HEXFETs from International Rectifier in TO-3 metal cans, each taken from the same lot code (indicating the same wafer) and "hyper-matched" to 0.5% gate voltages. "The output stage can sustain transients of about 12,000W, but it's never allowed to dissipate more than 2400W for any instant, even into a dead short." Most of the front-end transistors, the current sources, and the cascode devices are rated at 200V and 150W, but are run at a low 2.5W each. "The speed-critical gain devices in the front-endthe actual balanced pair of transistorsare rated at 20W, and we run them at 1W each on the same heatsink for perfect thermal tracking."
The circuit is completely DC-coupled, with no capacitors in the signal path. Two film capacitors stabilize the constant-current sources and two more caps filter the Zener diode voltage references, "but that's it!"
Power from the supply caps to the output transistors is conducted through formed sheets of aluminum with a large surface area, the output devices bolted directly to them. Wiring from the transistors to the speaker terminals consists of 24 parallel runs of 10-gauge copper cable. As you'd expect, all PC boards are double-sided, with plated-through holes and double-thickness copper traces.
Each monoblock idles at about 600W, or 1200W for the pairabout the same as a pro-size hair dryer. The X1000 is biased for class-A operation up to 128W peak, beyond which it drops into class-AB. The amplifier typically draws about 5A (continuous RMS) from the wall during normal use, reflecting the idle current running through its output stage. If you're driving a low-impedance load hard it'll draw more, but both channels can be run on a single 20A, 120V AC line "without problems in most cases."
If you're truly power-mad, a number of X1000s can be arrayed to produce up to 2000W per chassis. Two of them can deliver 4000W into 8 or 2 ohms, four can deliver 8000W into 4 ohms, and 16 will do 32,000W into 1 ohm! The mind boggles. "As a practical matter, we would expect peak output levels on the order of 64,000W for such arrays." Yes, as a practical matter. Ahem. Your dealer or Pass can supply you with the interface adapter(s) needed to run the amps in series or parallel.
Each amplifier packs a detachable 20A IEC power-cord with a plug that's larger than the standard 15A item found on many components these days. The IEC-320 power cord (hot blade vertical, neutral blade horizontal) requires a modern, high-current NEMA 5-20 wall socket, so you might have to call an electrician. The amplifier's chassis is connected to ground only through the power cord. It is not attached to the circuit or to the amplifier signal ground. "Under no circumstances should you defeat the ground connection of the power cord. For your safety, the chassis of the amplifier should be earth-grounded. We aren't kidding." He isn't kidding.
The X1000 accepts only a balanced input with pin 1 ground, pin 2 positive, and pin 3 negative. "This is the first amplifier that truly demands balanced operation to obtain high performance. If you don't have a true balanced source, you won't break the amplifier, but you're not getting anywhere near the performance you paid for." The rear panel houses a power breaker switch, two pairs of hefty paralleled output binding posts, and a 5-way connector for remote turn-on.
Flicking the breaker switch on the back panel lights a small blue LED in the meter and keeps the front-end warmed up and ready for use. When the front panel's Operate button is pressed, the eerie blue meter light is activated and the indicator runs up to something just below half-scale. As the amp warms up, the meter drops back a bit; it shows the level of bias current passing through the output stage. No relay, no delay; you're off, then you're on. If the meters bounce at a moderate or low listening level, then you're probably driving a very low impedance load, or perhaps a short. "If your speakers are not known to be very low impedance, say less than 4 ohms, then you should check this out." Yes, do. Basically, the X1000 operates in pure class-A at current levels that don't bounce the meters. Then this gem: "Do everybody a favor and try not to have shorted output cables. It happens accidentally all the time, and the amplifier is designed to survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it." He's a riot.
It took about an hour of warm-up for the amp to sound its considerable best. For the record, the blue-eyed beasts got mighty toasty after an evening of frolicking-good musical fun.
My amp is bigger than yours
:D.
Just having some fun..........if only I could afford something like these."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
-
HT
RTi70 mains
CSi30 center
RTi28 Rears
Velodyne CHT-12
H/K AVR-247
ADCOM GFA-7000
Samsung PN58B860
Playstation 3
2-Channel
Polk Audio LSi15's
Rotel RCD-1072
Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
ADCOM GFA-555
Signal Cable Analog II IC's
Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables -
a_mattison wrote: »I would get Emotiva..
:D:D:DJust kidding
The next time I'm over and you have all that great homemade brew.............
.......................I'm asking for a PBR (Pabst Blue Ribbon)
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
I have never heard of them, they new?a_mattison wrote: »I would get Emotiva..Testing
Testing
Testing -
If only I could find the room for this, I'd be all over it. This could make my speakers sing.
http://www.filtronique.com/en/produit.asp?num_brand=1118&num_cat=1&num_subcat=102&over=2&produit=11194 -
The next time I'm over and you have all that great homemade brew.............
.......................I'm asking for a PBR (Pabst Blue Ribbon)
While we watch my Visio TVHT
RTi70 mains
CSi30 center
RTi28 Rears
Velodyne CHT-12
H/K AVR-247
ADCOM GFA-7000
Samsung PN58B860
Playstation 3
2-Channel
Polk Audio LSi15's
Rotel RCD-1072
Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
ADCOM GFA-555
Signal Cable Analog II IC's
Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables -
If only I could find the room for this, I'd be all over it. This could make my speakers sing.
http://www.filtronique.com/en/produit.asp?num_brand=1118&num_cat=1&num_subcat=102&over=2&produit=11194
It weighs over 600lb!!HT
RTi70 mains
CSi30 center
RTi28 Rears
Velodyne CHT-12
H/K AVR-247
ADCOM GFA-7000
Samsung PN58B860
Playstation 3
2-Channel
Polk Audio LSi15's
Rotel RCD-1072
Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
ADCOM GFA-555
Signal Cable Analog II IC's
Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables -
OK, on a serious note eclimax. I've had my Rotel 1075 for about 3-4 years. Never any problems, doesn't run hot, and sounds great.
-
Bryston killer

Pass Laboratories' X amplifier series represents the efforts of designer Nelson Pass to prove that simple linear amplifier topologies can be scaled to provide high-quality audio performance at very high power levels. The handsome X1000 monoblock under scrutiny here, the largest and most powerful amp in the Pass stable, makes 1000W into 8 ohms and a mighty 2000W into 4 ohms. The amplifier has no global negative feedback, and only two gain stages: the front-end provides all the voltage gain and feeds a high-current follower stage.
Pass's Supersymmetry Balanced Single-Ended class-A topology was actually granted a US patent in 1994. Using a balanced gain-stage, the distortion and noise are made absolutely symmetric at the two outputs. The signal is amplified, while noise and distortion are canceled. In a nutshell, this is achieved by precise matching of the two halves of the circuit and "cross-coupling" their internal drive signals. (See the "Supersymmetry Explained" Sidebar for details.)
The X1000's power supply begins with a pair of big-boy toroidal transformers, individually rated at 1500VA continuous. From the paperwork, I gather that under actual conditions they'll do about 2000VA continuous per transformer, and at least half that again for short periods. Each transformer has its own circuit breaker and rectifier bridge. The breaker current is set at 20 amps, although the breakers will allow transients on the order of 300A to pass. To avoid a huge inrush of current during charge-up, all four transformer primaries are equipped with inrush suppressors, limiting current to 100A or so.
The transformers are potted in steel cans to minimize mechanical and magnetic noise, and the balance of the amplifier is crafted mostly of aluminum. There are eight computer-grade capacitors (large, old-style cans) at 25,000µF and 75V, making up over 240,000µF of storage capacitance (700 Joules of stored energy). These are used to create the unregulated output rails, at ±75V at 30 amps. A smaller transformer generates the ±99V rail voltages for the front-end circuitry. The voltage rails are passively filtered to produce a ripple voltage of only a few millivolts, "none of which shows up at the output." In his humorous and very engaging manual, Nelson Pass goes on to explain that the extra front-end supply lowers the system's distortion and noise and allows it to "swing the output stage rail-to-rail with losses on the order of only a volt or so, extracting every last possible watt."
The "balanced single-ended" front-end gain stage comprises a differential pair of MOSFETs with local negative feedback. They're biased by a constant-current source and cascoded for best effect. This stage develops the voltage gain and presents it to a large bank of follower MOSFET power transistors. "Originally it was assumed we would have to enclose this output stage in a Supersymmetry loop to get the performance we wanted, but ultimately we found that we could operate it without feedback as long as we put a healthy bias current through it. For the X1000, that's about 500W of dissipation per channel."
The 80 (!) output power MOSFETs are actually HEXFETs from International Rectifier in TO-3 metal cans, each taken from the same lot code (indicating the same wafer) and "hyper-matched" to 0.5% gate voltages. "The output stage can sustain transients of about 12,000W, but it's never allowed to dissipate more than 2400W for any instant, even into a dead short." Most of the front-end transistors, the current sources, and the cascode devices are rated at 200V and 150W, but are run at a low 2.5W each. "The speed-critical gain devices in the front-endthe actual balanced pair of transistorsare rated at 20W, and we run them at 1W each on the same heatsink for perfect thermal tracking."
The circuit is completely DC-coupled, with no capacitors in the signal path. Two film capacitors stabilize the constant-current sources and two more caps filter the Zener diode voltage references, "but that's it!"
Power from the supply caps to the output transistors is conducted through formed sheets of aluminum with a large surface area, the output devices bolted directly to them. Wiring from the transistors to the speaker terminals consists of 24 parallel runs of 10-gauge copper cable. As you'd expect, all PC boards are double-sided, with plated-through holes and double-thickness copper traces.
Each monoblock idles at about 600W, or 1200W for the pairabout the same as a pro-size hair dryer. The X1000 is biased for class-A operation up to 128W peak, beyond which it drops into class-AB. The amplifier typically draws about 5A (continuous RMS) from the wall during normal use, reflecting the idle current running through its output stage. If you're driving a low-impedance load hard it'll draw more, but both channels can be run on a single 20A, 120V AC line "without problems in most cases."
If you're truly power-mad, a number of X1000s can be arrayed to produce up to 2000W per chassis. Two of them can deliver 4000W into 8 or 2 ohms, four can deliver 8000W into 4 ohms, and 16 will do 32,000W into 1 ohm! The mind boggles. "As a practical matter, we would expect peak output levels on the order of 64,000W for such arrays." Yes, as a practical matter. Ahem. Your dealer or Pass can supply you with the interface adapter(s) needed to run the amps in series or parallel.
Each amplifier packs a detachable 20A IEC power-cord with a plug that's larger than the standard 15A item found on many components these days. The IEC-320 power cord (hot blade vertical, neutral blade horizontal) requires a modern, high-current NEMA 5-20 wall socket, so you might have to call an electrician. The amplifier's chassis is connected to ground only through the power cord. It is not attached to the circuit or to the amplifier signal ground. "Under no circumstances should you defeat the ground connection of the power cord. For your safety, the chassis of the amplifier should be earth-grounded. We aren't kidding." He isn't kidding.
The X1000 accepts only a balanced input with pin 1 ground, pin 2 positive, and pin 3 negative. "This is the first amplifier that truly demands balanced operation to obtain high performance. If you don't have a true balanced source, you won't break the amplifier, but you're not getting anywhere near the performance you paid for." The rear panel houses a power breaker switch, two pairs of hefty paralleled output binding posts, and a 5-way connector for remote turn-on.
Flicking the breaker switch on the back panel lights a small blue LED in the meter and keeps the front-end warmed up and ready for use. When the front panel's Operate button is pressed, the eerie blue meter light is activated and the indicator runs up to something just below half-scale. As the amp warms up, the meter drops back a bit; it shows the level of bias current passing through the output stage. No relay, no delay; you're off, then you're on. If the meters bounce at a moderate or low listening level, then you're probably driving a very low impedance load, or perhaps a short. "If your speakers are not known to be very low impedance, say less than 4 ohms, then you should check this out." Yes, do. Basically, the X1000 operates in pure class-A at current levels that don't bounce the meters. Then this gem: "Do everybody a favor and try not to have shorted output cables. It happens accidentally all the time, and the amplifier is designed to survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it." He's a riot.
It took about an hour of warm-up for the amp to sound its considerable best. For the record, the blue-eyed beasts got mighty toasty after an evening of frolicking-good musical fun.
My amp is bigger than yours
:D.
Just having some fun..........if only I could afford something like these.
Now you're talking! The best audition I had. these puppies and SF Cremona. Can't say I am ready to commit anytime soon, though.I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie. -
a_mattison wrote: »It weighs over 600lb!!
I'd have a helluva time getting it down the stairs.:eek: -
I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
-
OK, on a serious note eclimax. I've had my Rotel 1075 for about 3-4 years. Never any problems, doesn't run hot, and sounds great.
oH YEA.. Me too. I've had a GFA-7000 driving my HT for 2 years'ish and it is rock solid. I haven't tried it with my LSi's, but it drives my Rti's similar to how the GFA-555 did, which is now in my 2-channel system with LSi15's. The GFA-7000 is extremely dynamic for HT. Gunshots have tremendous impact, voices are clear and explosions are awesome. I think the ADCOM would drive your LSi's impressively.
I have not heard the Rotel amps though, so have no opinion in that direction. I don't think you would be dissappointed in the ADCOM, though.HT
RTi70 mains
CSi30 center
RTi28 Rears
Velodyne CHT-12
H/K AVR-247
ADCOM GFA-7000
Samsung PN58B860
Playstation 3
2-Channel
Polk Audio LSi15's
Rotel RCD-1072
Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
ADCOM GFA-555
Signal Cable Analog II IC's
Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables -
I'd have a helluva time getting it down the stairs.:eek:
if you buy me one, I'll help you yours down your stairs.HT
RTi70 mains
CSi30 center
RTi28 Rears
Velodyne CHT-12
H/K AVR-247
ADCOM GFA-7000
Samsung PN58B860
Playstation 3
2-Channel
Polk Audio LSi15's
Rotel RCD-1072
Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
ADCOM GFA-555
Signal Cable Analog II IC's
Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables




