Carver TFM-35 vs. Carver M-1.5t

SpeedyFE
SpeedyFE Posts: 143
edited November 2008 in Electronics
Ok, I have had the TFM-35 rocking my SDA 1cs for a while now, I am very very satisfied. Also, it is through a Carver 4000t pre-amp.

Now the TFM-35 is supposed to be 250 into 8ohm. I just bought a Carver M-1.5t which is supposed to be 350 into 8ohm and to be honest, it sucks! It really does not compare to the TFM-35. The TFM-35 has a beautiful, fully separated sound and more power.

Question: Was the Carver M-1.5t even though it was rated higher over-rated? Do I have a bad unit? The sound is even on both channels, so that is not a problem.

Or is the TFM-35 just a superior unit that the M-1.5t cannot even compete with?

Thanks guys.
Post edited by SpeedyFE on

Comments

  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited October 2008
    The M1.5t is an older unit, so it may be time for recapping & a general bench going-over. Also, it is a tube transfer modification unit, so you may not like the sound. I find them to be muddy in the bass (tube mod). they are a helluva powerhouse, however.
    TNRabbit
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    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
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    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
  • SpeedyFE
    SpeedyFE Posts: 143
    edited October 2008
    Thank you for the info, So your saying that the M1.5t should definitely out perform the TFM-35 (powerwise)?
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited October 2008
    The M1.5t is very conservatively rated. For short periods of time, it will push up to 1200 watts total, up to 750 watts into one channel (provided the total 1200 isn't exceeded). You can pop 15 amp circuits with one of them in good condition!
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
  • SpeedyFE
    SpeedyFE Posts: 143
    edited October 2008
    So if a TFM-35 is outperforming an M-1.5t then there is definitely something wrong with it?
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited October 2008
    Ok, my understanding is that the 1.5t was t-modded to sound like a Mark Levinson, while the tfm's were all t-modded to sound like Bob's own Silver Sevens.
    They should sound different, but in a manner of taste rather than outright quality. Both should sound nice. if your 1.5t sounds THAT bad, I am guessing something is not quite right.
  • NewHTguy
    NewHTguy Posts: 584
    edited October 2008
    I asked the same question regarding Emotiva XPA-2 (250 watts into 8 ohms with 2 channels driven) and XPA-5 (275 watts into 8 ohms with 2 channels driven). Both are the same price, $799, and the latter gives you more flexibility by allowing up to 5 channels. Yet the reviews and the people here all claim the former sounds a lot better. I presume there are differences underneath, but it would be nice to what they are.
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  • doggie750
    doggie750 Posts: 1,160
    edited October 2008
    I've been happy with my 1.5Ts (running it on CTR/ Fronts), mostlikely you got a bad breed. As far as TFMs, haven't had the chance to taste them just yet.....After reading this thread, I might be surfing the neighbors of one.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,959
    edited October 2008
    Something sounds like it is amiss with the M1.5t. I have A/B'd a TFM-55 and two mono'd TFM-55's up against one M1.5t and the M1.5t came out the clear winner in sound, available power and ability to control the woofers.

    However, this A/B was done on an 8ohm speaker. Your speakers are 6 ohm speakers which will make the amps perform a little differently. Another thing to keep in mind is that your speakers are 90db efficient, while mine have a slightly higher efficiency. This will also alter the end result.

    Oh, both of the amps are modified to sound like a tube amp FYI.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited October 2008
    Tom, I'm pretty sure the TFM series were NOT t-modded.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,959
    edited October 2008
    The entire lineup was emulated to sound like the Silver Sevens. A couple of exceptions like the C and CB versions along with some of the lower lineup weren't though IIRC.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited October 2008
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Tom, I'm pretty sure the TFM series were NOT t-modded.
    Everything I've read on the Carver forum states the TFMs are T modded to emulate the Silver 7s. The TFMx's aren't. You should know that ;)...or maybe you do and I'm wrong :p

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • TSWisla
    TSWisla Posts: 446
    edited October 2008
    What do you mean by t-modded? Is this a significant upgrade or merely a matter of preference?
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  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited October 2008
    TSWisla wrote: »
    What do you mean by t-modded? Is this a significant upgrade or merely a matter of preference?
    t = tubelike, modded to sound like the Silver 7 monos. Most of the TFMs were also voiced similarly. The TFMx amps were not. It's a preference, not an upgrade. Others know far more about this than I, but that's the gist.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • Texas42
    Texas42 Posts: 405
    edited November 2008
    Ron Temple wrote: »
    t = tubelike, modded to sound like the Silver 7 monos. Most of the TFMs were also voiced similarly. The TFMx amps were not. It's a preference, not an upgrade. Others know far more about this than I, but that's the gist.


    Actually, the 't' in the model number refers to 'transfer function mod' or 't-mod' for short; not 'tube'. The Carver model 1.0t 'was' modded after a tube amp, the Conrad Johnson Premier 5 mono blocks, which was the subject of the great Bob Carver Sterophile challenge (where Bob bet he could copy any high end amp within 49 hours in a hotel room near Stereophile's then Albuquerque HQ. Bob won the bet).

    He then modded a Solid State Class A amp, the Mark Levinson ML-2, which became the 1.5t.

    Later, he created the Silver Seven tube mono-blocks and modded them. This amp became the 4.0t. Later, the 4.0t got a facelift and became the internally identical but cosmetically different, TFM-42 and TFM-45 (one has analog meters, the other level lights on the front).

    Everyone has their preferences on which carver amp sounds best (some don't like any of them). I personally enjoyed them all and currently own a 1.5t.
  • Texas42
    Texas42 Posts: 405
    edited November 2008
    Oh, also regarding my assertions above, much of this was covered in The Audio Critic, issue 14. 1989/90
  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited November 2008
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Tom, I'm pretty sure the TFM series were NOT t-modded.

    Interesting that they would be named the "Transfer Function Modified" series (TFM?) if they were not transfer function modified. They all were in fact. Some of the smaller power amps were not magnetic field designs due to cost constraints at those price points, so they are conventional power supply amps. TFM-6 and maybe even 15 were conventional amp designs. The 60wpc job and the 100wpc.

    And the Levinson was a solid-state amp.

    I would rather have a perfect functioning 1.5t over the TFM-35 amp.
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,669
    edited November 2008
    I would rather have a perfect functioning 1.5t over the TFM-35 amp.

    agree

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited November 2008
    How does a PM1.5T (I know it's a pro amp) differs from M1.5T soncially? I bought one a while ago for use as a sub amp in mind. Since then, I have went different route and kept it unused. It sounds great without any problem though.

    What would you guys prefer? PM1.5T or M1.5T for pairing with polk RTi12s or LSi15s?

    Thanks
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited November 2008
    Yeah! I kinda know that it's not a good idea to use pro amp for home audio. It's not like it doesn't work, the home audio AVR doesn't put out enough juice (volts really) to the pro audio input levels and the impedance are different. I don't have pro speakers and I don't want to hook up PM1.5T with any home speakers yet. I did test with the subs and found the amp is working fine.

    So, I wonder would it worth it to mess the PM1.5T with my Polk speakers or not. I want to know the sonic signature of the PM1.5T series since there seems to have a few who owns the carver and might have any idea. Thanks
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited November 2008
    Why don't you just try it and see for yourself?
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited November 2008
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    but FWIW,, most folks on the forum will advise you against using "pro" amplifiers for home audio applications. YMMV,,,and who cares what anyone else thinks,, it's your system,,good luck,,enjoy. :)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited November 2008
    Use the search feature and you'll find all these Carver topics have been beat to death and into the ground over the last ten years or so.
  • skipf
    skipf Posts: 694
    edited November 2008
    I used Carver PM-300's with my LSI9's and they sounded great. Retired them for an M-500t and they sounded even better. I don't think there is anything wrong with using the PM series amps for home use, but you may find connection issues as the PM series only have screw, balanced or 1/4" inputs and outputs. Most also have 70v speaker outputs which is nice if you have really long wire runs. The best thing about them is they are built like tanks. I still use them if I want a travel rig.