Cheap tuner ideas

ben62670 · September 2008

billbillw wrote: »

I'd just find a 'sparrow feed' digital tuner. Look at FMTunerinfo for ideas. There are so many good quality digital tuners that end up going for $50 or less on Ebay. Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, Sony ES, all have good models that go cheap. They also have crappy models too, so do your research.

The reason I'd say go with digital is because most older analog tuners will need an alignment/restoration to give you their full potential. A tuner alignment cannot be done without special equipment and knowledge. I don't care how good of a DIY'er you are, Tuner alignment is a different boat.

On the other hand, most digital tuners from the late 80's/early 90's will be fine without an alignment.

Sorry Bill I didn't want to Mess up the other thread we we in.
I saw a Technics digital tuner in goodwill the other day for like $5.00. What I am looking for is something that sounds good, and has great reception. I don't care if it doesn't have a remote. I mostly listen to "The River" so set it, and forget it works for me;)
Ben

lakesailor · September 2008

I have a pretty sweet sounding Onkyo that I would part with for $ 40 plus shipping. I have had a ton of tuner's over the years and for the money Onkyo is pretty good.

billbillw · September 2008

ben62670 wrote: »

Sorry Bill I didn't want to Mess up the other thread we we in.
I saw a Technics digital tuner in goodwill the other day for like $5.00. What I am looking for is something that sounds good, and has great reception. I don't care if it doesn't have a remote. I mostly listen to "The River" so set it, and forget it works for me;)
Ben

I already posted in the other thread, but here it is for easier reference (and I can edit again)

Some recommended models:
Sony ST-S550ES, or basically any of the ES, ESG, or ESII tuners. Just beware of the models that have the 'audio current transfer' outputs because they have a special output cable. The 7xx series tuners tend to go for much more money and are not that much improvement.

Yamaha TX-5xx, or TX-7xx. The 5xx models go pretty cheap and are fine quality.

Pioneer models starting with F-

There is a model F-445 on ebay right now that is almost too cheap to pass up: F-445 on Ebay
This thing looks an awful lot like the F-51 that I had, which was an excellent tuner.

Or, just about any Onkyo model. There is a T-4017 ending in a few hours that is only bid to $10. I had a T-407 that was fabulous. Stay away from the really low end models though.

When checking FMTunerinfo, check first in the wrightups for each brand. If its not listed there, also check the "on deck circle' where they sometimes have brief talk about the tuner and at least let you know where it fit in the lineup.

daboyz · September 2008

Thanks Keiko, I pm'd Ben about it already. Yes it's still available. It's funny, on my way home from work I was thinking about bumping that for sale ad.

bikezappa · September 2008

Ben

Get a RS rabbit ears ($10) for an antenna to play with the tuner.

A $100 tuner with a good antenna will sound better than $2000 tuner with a dipole twin lead.

billbillw · September 2008

bikezappa wrote: »

Ben

Get a RS rabbit ears ($10) for an antenna to play with the tuner.

A $100 tuner with a good antenna will sound better than $2000 tuner with a dipole twin lead.

A $20 tuner with an outdoor antenna will sound better than a $2000 tuner with an indoor antenna.

Getting an antenna outside is really where you make the biggest gain. You can probably do a DIY half wave dipole hooked to coax cable using stuff you'd find laying around the house. Doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just put it out underneath your deck or somewhere similar and you shouldn't even need to worry about grounding.

eeagle · September 2008

Why not step into the world of HD radio with what has turned out to be the best tuner I have ever owned!

It's the Sony XDR-F1HD....Amazon and JR sell it for $100, and it still has the HD Radio Rebate of $50 till the end of Sep making it only $50....an amazing value.

A couple links of interest:

Test Report

AVS Forum Thread

bikezappa · September 2008

eeagle wrote: »

Why not step into the world of HD radio with what has turned out to be the best tuner I have ever owned!

It's the Sony XDR-F1HD....Amazon and JR sell it for $100, and it still has the HD Radio Rebate of $50 till the end of Sep making it only $50....an amazing value.

A couple links of interest:

Test Report

AVS Forum Thread

Great deal.
However, depending upon how close you are to the FM station and the type of antenna you are using, the HD signal may switch to analog every 5 seconds which drove me nuts. So I just stayed in the analog mode.

mhardy6647 · September 2008

For an amazingly good sounding tuner at a reasonable price, it is hard to beat the vintage Sherwood S-2000 or S-3000. Yes, they're mono. So what? :-) The audio quality of these will leave all but the best (and I mean McIntosh/Day Sequerra best, not Magnum-Dynalab or massmarket Japanese 'best') solid state tuners in their wake. (EDIT: IMNSHO, of course!)

If you really want to, you can add an outboard FM MPX decoder or buy one of the later versions with MPX stereo built in (e.g., S-3000IV).

Unlike most good tube tuners, the Sherwoods are inexpensive even in good working order. I think it is due to their... umm... interesting cosmetics.

ben62670 · September 2008

eeagle wrote: »

Why not step into the world of HD radio with what has turned out to be the best tuner I have ever owned!

It's the Sony XDR-F1HD....Amazon and JR sell it for $100, and it still has the HD Radio Rebate of $50 till the end of Sep making it only $50....an amazing value.

A couple links of interest:

Test Report

AVS Forum Thread

HD radio free?
Thanks
Ben

Systems · September 2008

I have a Yamaha T-07 analog tuner willing to trade for something equal to the shipping costs.What ya got?

mhardy6647 · September 2008

ben62670 wrote: »

HD radio free?
Thanks
Ben

Yeah, but of low audio quality. HD means 'hybrid digital' in this context, not 'high definition'.

ben62670 · September 2008

Thanks M. I am about 30 miles as the crow flies from Atlanta. The digital kinda has me thinking a little. One of the Polk family has offered up a NAD tuner that needs a little work(light bulb) that I can pick up at PF. I think I will hold off on digital for now.

Ben

mhardy6647 · September 2008

NAD made some pretty nifty tuners. Not 'high-end' but solid performers with the quiet, understated NAD design ethic.

billbillw · September 2008

ben62670 wrote: »

Thanks M. I am about 30 miles as the crow flies from Atlanta. The digital kinda has me thinking a little. One of the Polk family has offered up a NAD tuner that needs a little work(light bulb) that I can pick up at PF. I think I will hold off on digital for now.

Ben

NOt to mention, the sound quality from HD radio is marginal at best. People are confused. Its not High Definition radio, its Hybrid Digital radio. In terms of playback, HD radio is the equivalent of an MP3 versus vinyl. Vinyl sometimes has a bit of static, but it far surpasses the quality of MP3.

HD radio is digitally compressed. Another problem with HD radio is reception at the fringe. An analog radio signal gradually fades, but an HD radio signal drops suddenly and completely near the fringe.

They only way I'll ever have HD radio is if they start making them standard issue in cars.

But does it really matter? Most commercial radio stations these days are broadcasting over modulated, compressed MP3 garbage anyway. The sound from the big stations here in Atlanta is terrible.

To me, the only stations that are worth a damn are the college stations, NPR, and a few other independent stations like radio free Georgia.

ben62670 · September 2008

billbillw wrote: »

NOt to mention, the sound quality from HD radio is marginal at best. People are confused. Its not High Definition radio, its Hybrid Digital radio. In terms of playback, HD radio is the equivalent of an MP3 versus vinyl. Vinyl sometimes has a bit of static, but it far surpasses the quality of MP3.

HD radio is digitally compressed. Another problem with HD radio is reception at the fringe. An analog radio signal gradually fades, but an HD radio signal drops suddenly and completely near the fringe.

They only way I'll ever have HD radio is if they start making them standard issue in cars.

But does it really matter? Most commercial radio stations these days are broadcasting over modulated, compressed MP3 garbage anyway. The sound from the big stations here in Atlanta is terrible.

To me, the only stations that are worth a damn are the college stations, NPR, and a few other independent stations like radio free Georgia.

I like NPR, and the river. I am playing them over a Pioneer lower end receiver so SQ wise I really can't tell.

billbillw · September 2008

NPR is great (when they actually have music)

The River is crap. I think that place is fully automated as well. You almost never hear a live person there.

On your side of town, with a decent outdoor antenna, you might be able to pick up two different NPR stations.
90.1 WABE broadcasting from Stone Mountain, Atlanta Public Broadcasting
and
91.7 WUGA out of Athens, which is part of the Georgia Pubic Broadcasting.

I wish I could get one of the GPB network channels, but the only one close to me is in Warm Springs, which is about 100 degrees from where my antenna is pointed, no rotor

mmadden28 · September 2008

I don't listen to the radio much, but I like HD Radio-When it locks on to a signal, and switches from standard FM to HD (seamless switch-no delay), it certainly sounds better-perhaps more spacious-but there's certainly more there (to me). At times it takes awhile to lock onto an HD signal, but almost all local stations in my area also broadcast in HD. Some stations that broadcast in HD also broadcast a second HD channel. So 94.1 will actually have two broadcasts 94.1-1 and 94.1-2, each playing something different. So they can provide something different while still sticking with thier fan base.

It is free, but commercials aren't lacking either. When the HD signal is weak it can lead to dead air (its digital same as XM or Sirius when you go into a tunnel or under heavy trees).

I personally gave up on FM ages ago-simply too many commercials. I usually listen to my iPod, CDs; or if I don't want to choose what I want to listen to, XM radio.

If this is for in your house, perhaps just do internet radio??

ben62670 · September 2008

From what I have heard internet radio is so compressed, and lifeless I could not deal with amping it:(

mmadden28 · September 2008

ben62670 wrote: »

From what I have heard internet radio is so compressed, and lifeless I could not deal with amping it:(

I believe it is, but I think you can also subscribe to some channels and 'unlock' greater bandwidth. Of course that's per channel. I'm not sure how much or how much better it would be, but...

Now I've always known (and I could be wrong) that FM SQ was far inferior to CD SQ. How much I am not sure, but maybe just stream you're own stuff on your own internet station?

Just throwing ideas at ya .

mhardy6647 · September 2008

FM sound quality can be considerably superior to CD; but this requires an outstanding feed (e.g., live concert), minimal compression and processing, and excellent electronics throughout the chain. The best 'public radio' stations (e.g., WGBH-FM in Boston) can still deliver very good FM sound quality, but most commercial stations are awful. The limitation, though, is not in the analog FM technology; it results from decisions made by the individual stations.

Addendum: because analog MPX stereo FM uses a 19 kHz pilot signal, the upper frequency response is limited by definition. Realistically, the bandwidth of FM is about 30 Hz to 15 kHz, but this is adequate for very high quality sound (believe it or not).

bikezappa · September 2008

mhardy6647 wrote: »

FM sound quality can be considerably superior to CD; but this requires an outstanding feed (e.g., live concert), minimal compression and processing, and excellent electronics throughout the chain. The best 'public radio' stations (e.g., WGBH-FM in Boston) can still deliver very good FM sound quality, but most commercial stations are awful. The limitation, though, is not in the analog FM technology; it results from decisions made by the individual stations.

Addendum: because analog MPX stereo FM uses a 19 kHz pilot signal, the upper frequency response is limited by definition. Realistically, the bandwidth of FM is about 30 Hz to 15 kHz, but this is adequate for very high quality sound (believe it or not).

Could't agree more. I am very lucky to have and listen to WGBH in Boston.

eeagle · September 2008

I must agree on what has been said about HD radio. I bought the Sony XDR-F1HD primarily to receive 2 PBS stations that I get with marginal reception that were always stating to listen to them in HD. I have been disappointed that the receiver reverts to a normal FM receiver for these two stations, but their straight FM reception is better than any receiver I have in the house, ie the reason I have been so pleased with the Sony as a really great tuner.

The closer stations do give me HD reception on both AM and FM which is noise free and very pleasant compared to the non-HD reception....not to mention all the info displayed about artist and program being broadcast.

The question raised about mp3 like compression is a tough one to sort out...it will basically have to be in the ear of the listener. I know of no published data/spec telling when a station is broadcasting "lossless" but suspect most are not. High bit rate compression is very acceptable and wide spread in radio land...and now even on digital television. Bottom line I think you will find most broadcast music is coming off a hard drive or digital feed even if it is "analogue".

bikezappa · September 2008

eeagle

Are you saying that my favorite FM broadcast, WICN in Worcester MA is digital?

This DJ on Saturday afternoon brings in his own records and plays them on the air with all the pops and crackels.

mmadden28 · September 2008

FYI
Here is what is on Wiki:
Audio (MP3)
32 kbit/s MW (AM) quality
96 kbit/s FM quality
128160 kbit/s Standard Bitrate quality; difference can sometimes be obvious (e.g. bass quality)[citation needed]
192 kbit/s DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) quality.[citation needed]
224320 kbit/s Near CD quality.

mmadden28 · September 2008

Also check out this section "LAME, FM-radio quality and Sample-rate" here. It appears that 96KHz is the optimal MP3 wuality for FM.

skykeys · September 2008

mmadden28 wrote: »

I don't listen to the radio much, but I like HD Radio-When it locks on to a signal, and switches from standard FM to HD (seamless switch-no delay), it certainly sounds better-perhaps more spacious-but there's certainly more there (to me). At times it takes awhile to lock onto an HD signal, but almost all local stations in my area also broadcast in HD. Some stations that broadcast in HD also broadcast a second HD channel. So 94.1 will actually have two broadcasts 94.1-1 and 94.1-2, each playing something different. So they can provide something different while still sticking with thier fan base.

It is free, but commercials aren't lacking either. When the HD signal is weak it can lead to dead air (its digital same as XM or Sirius when you go into a tunnel or under heavy trees).

I personally gave up on FM ages ago-simply too many commercials. I usually listen to my iPod, CDs; or if I don't want to choose what I want to listen to, XM radio. . . .

Have you ever listened to WXPN, 88.5 FM, the University of Pennsylvania station? You should be able to receive it no problem in the West Chester, PA area. It's public radio, so very few commercials. It also broadcasts over the internet: www.xpn.org It's a great music station.

In terms of radio preferences, I primarily listen to only XPN and NPR these days; with some AM thrown in for news/talk, or for Phillies games. (I do not subscribe to XM or Sirius). XPN broadcasts in HD, so you can listen to different sub-broadcasts.

Speaking of HD, I did recently get a receiver with an HD radio receiver. I like it. The biggest difference in sound quality is for AM. I can finally listen to "Sunday with Sinatra" in half-decent stereo, and without static.

Regards.

mhardy6647 · September 2008

skykeys wrote: »

Have you ever listened to WXPN, 88.5 FM, the University of Pennsylvania station? You should be able to receive it no problem in the West Chester, PA area. It's public radio, so very few commercials. It also broadcasts over the internet: www.xpn.org It's a great music station.

It is a great station indeed! My company's HQ is in Collegeville, PA. I have to go there occasionally. Flying from MA to Phila is such a hassle that I ususally just drive. I stumbled on WXPN driving home one evening just as I was getting on the NJ TPK extension and was smiling the whole time that the signal lasted. It was like a radio station from the olden days! Not that they were playing 'oldies' but you could tell that they were playing what they wanted (and what their audience) wanted to hear.

Highly recommended.

I used to really like WXRV-FM in Haverhill, MA. I haven't listened to them for a long time, but I suspect they're still pretty good. They put out several CDs of live in studio performances by some terrific guests (Patty Larkin, Bruce Cockburn, Jonatha Brooke, Cowboy Junkies; that sort of thing) in the mid/late 90s that were terrific. Mostly good sounding recordings, too (originals to analog tape).

bikezappa · September 2008

http://www.radio-locator.com/

This site allows you to find all the FM stations with discriptions within your location.

FM LOVERS SHOULD CHECK IT OUT.

eeagle · September 2008

bikezappa wrote: »

eeagle

Are you saying that my favorite FM broadcast, WICN in Worcester MA is digital?

This DJ on Saturday afternoon brings in his own records and plays them on the air with all the pops and crackels.

This is indeed unusual, but if you have a real DJ bringing in vinyl and playing them on a turntable live, I would guess you are getting the real McCoy...must be nice. Should the DJ take a vacation though does he prerecord on an analogue or a digital recorder...it would be pretty hard to tell.

We have a college Jazz station here in FL that still has real DJs, but requests are all CD based (I think, maybe they call them up on a computer).

bikezappa · September 2008

Joe Slecik Saturday 12:00 to 4:00 on WICN, 90.5, in Worcester MA plays many old jazz LPs. He never records the show, I think.

Cheap tuner ideas

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