New Toshiba DVD Player Anyone?

Ron-P · September 2008

Damn, I had no idea, of course, I didn't get into Blu until about close to a year after it streeted so I missed most of those. You are right though, that's a lot more then there are now.

But to get a format to survive, there can be only one. Having two competing formats never bods well with the average consumer. Maybe there are some great deals while there both around but it doesn't last long and neither will two formats. People don't want two machines and their movies split between two formats, it doesn't work.

Either way, it doesn't matter (to me) as it's the only format I buy now, even if I pay $30 a disc, I haven't bought or watched an SD-DVD for probably close to a year now. It's just too painful to watch and listen to.

Ron-P · September 2008

I have the 40g PS3 and a Samsung BD-P1000. You'll be very, very, hard pressed to find a better Blu-ray player then the PS3, for price and performance it's unbeatable. That's also a great price on the 80 as I paid that for my 40.

grif32 · September 2008

Ron-P wrote: »

Damn, I had no idea, of course, I didn't get into Blu until about close to a year after it streeted so I missed most of those. You are right though, that's a lot more then there are now.

But to get a format to survive, there can be only one. Having two competing formats never bods well with the average consumer. Maybe there are some great deals while there both around but it doesn't last long and neither will two formats. People don't want two machines and their movies split between two formats, it doesn't work.

Either way, it doesn't matter (to me) as it's the only format I buy now, even if I pay $30 a disc, I haven't bought or watched an SD-DVD for probably close to a year now. It's just too painful to watch and listen to.

LOL yeah not to many people "Recall that many bogo's" all due to HD DVD. If you remember EVERY big release for HD DVD, BR countered with Bogo's.

Thats why we needed the War but at the sametime we didnt need it because I think it hurt BR being adopted quickly.

Watching SD DVD's is soooooooo painful now. I try and not watch them but every now and then I have to..

I have over 100 BR's thanks to the Bogo's but I refuse to pay $30.00/disk. Thats why I joined netflix for $16.99 a month cant beat it. Prices NEED to come down fast for the "Average Joe" to join us.

Ron-P · September 2008

I just joined Netflix about 2 weeks ago, so I'm sure my purchases will drop off a bit. But I still like to own my movies and take as much advantage of Amazons deals when they have'em as they are better then going to BB or CC, usually.

I will say the reason I don't mind spending $30 on a blu-ray is that I rarely go see movies in the theater because for the 3 of us to go, it costs more to do that then to just buy the movie and own it.

cheddar · September 2008

Keiko wrote: »

What I don't get is that the 40gig versions are 500.00 plus.

http://www.amazon.com/Playstation-3-40GB/dp/B000XGJH1O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1220541977&sr=1-2

The higher prices are from 3rd party vendors on amazon. They are obviously out of stock and aren't selling them at retail.

cheddar · September 2008

Keiko wrote: »

Got ya cheddar...Hmmmm, reading more I wasn't aware that these arn't backwards compatible according to some reviewers. The description says you can play the PS2/PS games.

Yes, the 40gig is not backwards compatible. They are supposedly coming out with a new 80gig that's supposed to replace the 40gig and I'm not sure if they will keep the compatibility. But previous 80gig versions were compatible with over 2000 older games. And if you were lucky enough to get the 60gig, it was near 100% compatible because they put the guts of a ps2 in the console. They've since taken part of the hardware out of the 80gig to control costs, using software to make up the difference. And they completely removed all the ps2 hardware from the 40gig.

cheddar · September 2008

Ron-P is actually a little more right than many of you are giving him credit for. It's DVD disk sales that really have the industry worried as they have been falling off or flat in recent years. And blu-ray is actually the hope of studios as they try and reinvigorate sales:

http://login.vnuemedia.com/hr/login/login_subscribe.jsp?id=JwgPPVfVmcksd4TtPuM3gvMrl1huoS1n41WGBMtipDBHyP416NfmcYCfx50GCg1dRCjBThaZau8c%0Aii75%2FtsbHIxGjkdrnDQOslHfbuVVWsNcA0l00S7x8ww%2BJvO8QjqZjq8kcNPDs0glnmyz2I8MIdwT%0AS1Wlvcvv2GXBbIfxofJ1OoZlRvl0KLCaDWz6ywZj0H%2BZLhORD7EUymF77NTUBPi95wE7nhpmMR%2Bl%0ALSGRrW6eTO8FqsDlX51sRK1S4DnSDRDAz%2FlAgu5JRpPosk0nQLv4mYlLJJ0Af33%2F0%2BrEs3w%2B%2FFeh%0AT6mEI0fI%2FjXo1%2BZxgJ%2FHnQYKDV1szQkldQ3E2k7snTVhlKaf4eGI0TPRmHxHjYkVErAJMxavIBHe%0AdrtW

Consumer spending on DVDs and Blu-ray Discs in the first three months of this year was up about 1% from the first three months of 2007, coming in at $5.51 billion compared with $5.46 billion in the first quarter of last year, according to Home Media Magazine market research estimates based on studio and retail data. The nascent Blu-ray Disc saved the day for the sellthrough business, per Nielsen VideoScan sales data, with DVD unit sales in the first quarter down 1.2% from the first quarter of 2007 but Blu-ray Disc sales up a whopping 351%.

That's not to say that DVD sales still aren't the major portion of total sales or that the 351% isn't an increase off of very low numbers last year. But it's also not the case that DVD sales are completely healthy with blu-ray dropping off as some are trying to say. Even with unit sales declining 1.2% for dvd, consumer spending rose 1% in the first quarter thanks to blu-ray sales kicking in.

And on Amazon right now here are some great under 20 buck deals that are actually pretty regular (there are more, but I got tired typing them in). Warner is actually toying with the idea of bringing their average prices down to increase sales. Just look at how low Batman Begins and Legend have been pretty continuously on amazon for under $20. The difference between these prices and the bogos is that the bogos only lasted as long as they needed to knock off hd-dvd new releases. These new prices are found just by avoiding retailers like best buy and circuit city. And even new releases like transformers are nowhere near the $30 a pop prices people usually quote as outrageous. Be patient for a sale, and even these regularly drop lower. I'd look for many many deals on blu-ray hardware and software as we get closer to Christmas. The real benefits of economy of scale and lack of a format war will really kick in not with short time bogos, but with average everyday prices falling as more hardware and software product hits the shelves (real competition, not a messy, confusing format war):

3:10 to Yuma $18.95
X-Men: The Last Stand $18.95
Cloverfield $19.95
Casino Royal $19.95
Underworld movies $19.95 each
Open Season $19.95
5th Element $14.95
Men in Black $14.95
Black Hawk Down $14.95
Hellboy $14.95
Patriot $14.95
I am Legend $18.95
Road Warrior $14.95
No Country for Old Men $19.95
Pirates of the Carribean movies 2 and 3 $19.95 each
National Treasure 2 $19.95
Prestige $19.95
Cars, The Rat movie $20.99
300 $20.95
Batman Begins $17.95
Transformers $24.95
2001: Space Odyssey $17.95
Polar Express $17.95
50 First Dates $17.95
Hunt for Red October $18.95
Fantastic Four $18.95
Unforgiven $18.95
U-571 $19.95
Mummy movies $19.95 each
Harry Potter movies $19.95 each
Tom Clancy movies $19.95 each
Shrek the Third $19.95
Cast Away $19.95
28 Days Later $19.95
Edward Scissorhands $19.95
Flags of our Fathers $19.95
Babel $19.95
Blades of Glory $19.95

grif32 · September 2008

cheddar wrote: »

Ron-P is actually a little more right than many of you are giving him credit for. It's DVD disk sales that really have the industry worried as they have been falling off or flat in recent years. And blu-ray is actually the hope of studios as they try and reinvigorate sales:

http://login.vnuemedia.com/hr/login/login_subscribe.jsp?id=JwgPPVfVmcksd4TtPuM3gvMrl1huoS1n41WGBMtipDBHyP416NfmcYCfx50GCg1dRCjBThaZau8c%0Aii75%2FtsbHIxGjkdrnDQOslHfbuVVWsNcA0l00S7x8ww%2BJvO8QjqZjq8kcNPDs0glnmyz2I8MIdwT%0AS1Wlvcvv2GXBbIfxofJ1OoZlRvl0KLCaDWz6ywZj0H%2BZLhORD7EUymF77NTUBPi95wE7nhpmMR%2Bl%0ALSGRrW6eTO8FqsDlX51sRK1S4DnSDRDAz%2FlAgu5JRpPosk0nQLv4mYlLJJ0Af33%2F0%2BrEs3w%2B%2FFeh%0AT6mEI0fI%2FjXo1%2BZxgJ%2FHnQYKDV1szQkldQ3E2k7snTVhlKaf4eGI0TPRmHxHjYkVErAJMxavIBHe%0AdrtW

That's not to say that DVD sales still aren't the major portion of total sales or that the 351% isn't an increase off of very low numbers last year. But it's also not the case that DVD sales are completely healthy with blu-ray dropping off as some are trying to say. Even with unit sales declining 1.2% for dvd, consumer spending rose 1% in the first quarter thanks to blu-ray sales kicking in.

And on Amazon right now here are some great under 20 buck deals that are actually pretty regular (there are more, but I got tired typing them in). Warner is actually toying with the idea of bringing their average prices down to increase sales. Just look at how low Batman Begins and Legend have been pretty continuously on amazon for under $20. The difference between these prices and the bogos is that the bogos only lasted as long as they needed to knock off hd-dvd new releases. These new prices are found just by avoiding retailers like best buy and circuit city. And even new releases like transformers are nowhere near the $30 a pop prices people usually quote as outrageous. Be patient for a sale, and even these regularly drop lower. I'd look for many many deals on blu-ray hardware and software as we get closer to Christmas. The real benefits of economy of scale and lack of a format war will really kick in not with short time bogos, but with average everyday prices falling as more hardware and software product hits the shelves (real competition, not a messy, confusing format war):

3:10 to Yuma $18.95
X-Men: The Last Stand $18.95
Cloverfield $19.95
Casino Royal $19.95
Underworld movies $19.95 each
Open Season $19.95
5th Element $14.95
Men in Black $14.95
Black Hawk Down $14.95
Hellboy $14.95
Patriot $14.95
I am Legend $18.95
Road Warrior $14.95
No Country for Old Men $19.95
Pirates of the Carribean movies 2 and 3 $19.95 each
National Treasure 2 $19.95
Prestige $19.95
Cars, The Rat movie $20.99
300 $20.95
Batman Begins $17.95
Transformers $24.95
2001: Space Odyssey $17.95
Polar Express $17.95
50 First Dates $17.95
Hunt for Red October $18.95
Fantastic Four $18.95
Unforgiven $18.95
U-571 $19.95
Mummy movies $19.95 each
Harry Potter movies $19.95 each
Tom Clancy movies $19.95 each
Shrek the Third $19.95
Cast Away $19.95
28 Days Later $19.95
Edward Scissorhands $19.95
Flags of our Fathers $19.95
Babel $19.95
Blades of Glory $19.95

Only problem with the above list as I stated probably half if not more have been included in Bogo's from Amazon or cheaper $9.99 from fry's or other deals so those prices are really not that good for most of us that have been in the game awhile but good for those new to it.

Pirates were Bogo at TRU's. And with the (2) $10.00 off coupon and a $5.00 off coupon I picked up two POTC 3's for less then $1.00. They were $24.95 plus tax ea with BOGO.

See those were deals that we do not see anymore.

Heck I picked up all Harry Potters on BR in the Bogo. Plus grabbed #5 all for less then $60.00 shipped. Lets $12/movie. 28 Days later, Bable flags of our fathres, hellboy, 3:10 to yuma just to name a few.

Also BR sales should be up 350% since alot of HD DVD fanboys came over and thats all they can enjoy now. If it wasnt up that high from last year then Br might as well forget it.

Warner is toying with bringing thier old titles out for around $15.95 otherwise they would probably just sit on the shelves.

Transfomers is $24.95 or $27.95 wit tax so its pretty close to $30.00

Fox is the biggest problem with disc around $30 and up. Most of us were spoiled with all those Bogo's I guess is the problem.

cheddar · September 2008

grif32 wrote: »

Only problem with the above list as I stated probably half if not more have been included in Bogo's from Amazon or cheaper $9.99 from fry's or other deals so those prices are really not that good for most of us that have been in the game awhile but good for those new to it.

I think you're sort of missing the point I was making. These aren't short term bogo deals. They're pretty much what you can get these titles for everyday on Amazon. That means you don't have to watch the deal sites or scramble to buy them before they run out. (Have you ever tried to get a cheap blu-ray deal at a retail Fry's? The popular titles sell out very quickly and unless you're early, you're usually picking over the less popular left overs.) I have no doubt that even the up coming Christmas sales should be much better than these. These prices are just what the current economy of scale advantages have given the market. And few people actually pay Amazon sales tax (even if they're supposed to). So including sales tax and even easily avoidable shipping costs really isn't a fair true cost statement. Most people will pay less than 25 bucks total for Transformers at Amazon.

grif32 wrote: »

Warner is toying with bringing thier old titles out for around $15.95 otherwise they would probably just sit on the shelves.

It's pretty established economic truth that the lower the price, the more of something you will sell. Titles are already selling, they're just trying to find the sweet spot where volume sold at a reduced profit per unit sale maximizes total profit. That's where people who keep thinking that the end of the war or no war in the first place would mean sky high prices now. In order to sell at volume, you simply can't raise prices to whatever you want. You lower prices and squeeze your margins until you reach a sweet spot where volume sold at a certain profit is highest. And as more of a product is sold, that almost always means rapidly declining prices as economies of scale make the product much cheaper to produce and you've got more room to squeeze margins even further.

Which is why this whole format war was such a waste. The format war severely reduced unit sales of both hardware and software because few people wanted to jump into HD with all the format uncertainty. This ran the real risk of both formats dying off completely and is the real reason that Warner shifted its support when it did. Sure, they can have great bogos and sales where you can get movies for a buck. Heck, they could even give the disks to you for free (oh wait, they did...). But all that cheap software and hardware doesn't mean anything if the format just dies after two years and you want to continue getting more titles for your collection.

We are probably a year or two behind where we would have been if there was no format war. Which means that economies of scale (the total advantage of having high volumes of hardware and software readily available on the market) are also just as far behind. So we got lots of temporary sales (hardware and software) while the two formats were clubbing each other over the head. But for the longer term, we probably lost out on regular Amazon prices dipping below $15 instead of $20 by now and hardware going below $150 or even $100 instead of below $200 by Christmas. Imagine if Funai put out a blu-ray player last Christmas or even at launch instead of just releasing them this year. Delayed investment from both Studios and hardware companies and low initial volume sales is what really hurt the industry and will keep prices much higher in the short term than they would be if this was the 2nd or 3rd Christmas of high volume sales for the format.

AsSiMiLaTeD · September 2008

FACT: There were better sustained deals on a greater selection of Blu Ray discs when it was competing for market share with HD DVD.

Opinion: Those deals were likely due to competition, with Sony trying to buy up all the market share and knock off HD DVD

You people can argue the opinion all day long, but fact is fact and in that matter your opinion (and mine) is irrelevant. At the end of last year and beginning of this year there were SUSTAINED deals on Blu Ray discs. Today you can find decent deals from time to time, but not even in the same ballpark as the selection we had before.

I bought over 120 BR titles from places like Amazon and Fry's for a total average of $13.37 a disc - and those were premeire titles, not Snakes on a Plane. You can't find those prices today, and if you do it's on a very limited selection for a very limited amount of time. Hell 40% off is a great deal, but you're still looking at $20 a pop for most movies, even when looking at the list of 'deals' that cheddar posted above.

I'm too laze to go back and find my threads now, but I called it when HD DVD died. I said then you kiss all the $13 Blu Ray discs goodbye, and I've been overwhelmingly correct.

I'm not on one side or the other, I want whatever gives me the best selection at the best price with the best quality. Other than the natural progression of technology, there hasn't been one single thing that's happened since the death of HD DVD (except for all the great prices on HD DVD players and movies) that's been to my benefit, as a consumer.

cheddar · September 2008

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

Other than the natural progression of technology, there hasn't been one single thing that's happened since the death of HD DVD (except for all the great prices on HD DVD players and movies) that's been to my benefit, as a consumer.

Except that one format is actually starting to sell in healthy volumes and might actually survive, of course. The avalanche of titles starting to come out from both big and small studios, both A list and B movies, domestic and international is a testament to that. It wasn't too long ago that we had to wait for just the summer block busters to come out, and it all depended on which format you had if you could even get those. Now, you can get all the new releases from all the studios and an increasing number of catalog titles (some remastered to high quality) as well. Average prices continue to drop for both hardware and software, although not as fast as some would like. But you can't really argue with free. Yes, as long as HD-DVD and Blu-ray were willing to lose money and give their stuff away below cost, consumers got great deals. Can't argue with that...

grif32 · September 2008

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

FACT: There were better sustained deals on a greater selection of Blu Ray discs when it was competing for market share with HD DVD.

Opinion: Those deals were likely due to competition, with Sony trying to buy up all the market share and knock off HD DVD

You people can argue the opinion all day long, but fact is fact and in that matter your opinion (and mine) is irrelevant. At the end of last year and beginning of this year there were SUSTAINED deals on Blu Ray discs. Today you can find decent deals from time to time, but not even in the same ballpark as the selection we had before.

I bought over 120 BR titles from places like Amazon and Fry's for a total average of $13.37 a disc - and those were premeire titles, not Snakes on a Plane. You can't find those prices today, and if you do it's on a very limited selection for a very limited amount of time. Hell 40% off is a great deal, but you're still looking at $20 a pop for most movies, even when looking at the list of 'deals' that cheddar posted above.

I'm too laze to go back and find my threads now, but I called it when HD DVD died. I said then you kiss all the $13 Blu Ray discs goodbye, and I've been overwhelmingly correct.

I'm not on one side or the other, I want whatever gives me the best selection at the best price with the best quality. Other than the natural progression of technology, there hasn't been one single thing that's happened since the death of HD DVD (except for all the great prices on HD DVD players and movies) that's been to my benefit, as a consumer.

My point I have been trying to make. People think they are getting deals with $20.00 BR's when in fact they are not since most were in Bogo's and were around $12.00 a movie. Thats a deal.

cheddar · September 2008

grif32 wrote: »

People think they are getting deals with $20.00 BR's when in fact they are not

Still missing the point. $15-$19 everyday amazon prices for disks like batman begins, i am legend, and black hawk down are reasonable prices and a welcome trend, not a super deal. When these disks actually go on sale, they'll be even less. I'm not saying that the bogos weren't great opportunities to get movies for cheap. I've built a big collection by waiting for hd-dvd to release big movies and picking up handfuls of cheap deals on bogos each time. But it's kind of like saying that you won't shop for deals on a new house, cause houses were so cheap in 1997. HD-DVD and Blu-ray were locked in a deathmatch and prices came down to the point that both almost didn't survive. Good situation for the consumer and deals. Agreed. But you're living in the past if you think that companies should maintain money losing profit margins just because some people want a free lunch. Better to have a healthy industry in general so that even more hd movies and players are released so that general average retail prices will come down faster.

grif32 · September 2008

cheddar wrote: »

Still missing the point. $15-$19 everyday amazon prices for disks like batman begins, i am legend, and black hawk down are reasonable prices and a welcome trend, not a super deal. When these disks actually go on sale, they'll be even less. I'm not saying that the bogos weren't great opportunities to get movies for cheap. I've built a big collection by waiting for hd-dvd to release big movies and picking up handfuls of cheap deals on bogos each time. But it's kind of like saying that you won't shop for deals on a new house, cause houses were so cheap in 1997. HD-DVD and Blu-ray were locked in a deathmatch and prices came down to the point that both almost didn't survive. Good situation for the consumer and deals. Agreed. But you're living in the past if you think that companies should maintain money losing profit margins just because some people want a free lunch. Better to have a healthy industry in general so that even more hd movies and players are released so that general average retail prices will come down faster.

Well companies will HAVE to lose profit margin in order for BR to be sucessful.

Sony is with the PS3 thats the ONLY reason BR is still alive.

Average Joe will not pay the prices of BR disk or players today. I want BR to keep trucking but getting worried with the current pricing. Thats all.

cheddar · September 2008

I think we're already seeing prices drop. There should be some good discounting during Christmas as both studios and hardware makers have a motivation to make this a blu-ray holiday season. If they're smart and jump start volume sales with great black friday deals and such, the format should be just fine. There are so many hardware makers coming out with new product and so many software titles releasing compared with last year, I'm not too worried about there being an end to good discounts because of competition. Just clearancing last year's products should generate some great deals...but if they don't, I can see how things might play out the way you fear they might...

grif32 · September 2008

cheddar wrote: »

I think we're already seeing prices drop. There should be some good discounting during Christmas as both studios and hardware makers have a motivation to make this a blu-ray holiday season. If they're smart and jump start volume sales with great black friday deals and such, the format should be just fine. There are so many hardware makers coming out with new product and so many software titles releasing compared with last year, I'm not too worried about there being an end to good discounts because of competition. Just clearancing last year's products should generate some great deals...but if they don't, I can see how things might play out the way you fear they might...

Yeah I hope for a hug xmas push..

Some of those titles you listed above for under $20.00 are now $13.99 for fyr's deal

Frys $13.99 Friday Sale [September 5 - September 9, 2008]

$13.99

Starship Trooper
The Fifth Element
Men In Black
Gattaca
Exorcism of Emily Rose
House of Flying Dagger
Black Hawk Down
Underworld
Hellboy
I Know What You Did Last Summer
Kung Fu Hustle
Monty Python's Life of Brian
The Adventures of Baron Munchausen
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
****: State of the Reunion
The Patriot
Urban Legend
The 6th Day
Maximum Risk
Into The Blue
Anger Management

New Toshiba DVD Player Anyone?

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