Ben's Silver ICs and the Sony BD S300

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Ron Temple
Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
edited September 2008 in Electronics
I haven't been satisfied with the performance of my rig playing back Dolby True HD or DTS MA via analog. Specifically, the center channel...voices are too bassy, the front soundstage ill defined and the LFE lacking definition.
I've been using AQ Dbacks and Corals on my fronts and a hodge podge of Monster and Ratshack ICs in the other positions. I thought I'd try a pair of Ben's ICs to see if I could fix the problem.

I received them yesterday and while it's too soon to give them a thorough review I did want to give my first impressions while they're fresh. I decided to put them on my fronts between my source and the pre, per Ben's suggestion, to get them more voltage for burn-in. I put on some Alan Parsons "Eye in the Sky" and listened for a half hour with the Dbacks in position, then I put in Ben's. The difference was immediately apparent. The first thing I noticed was that the tweets came alive (maybe too much at first). One of my gripes with the RDO-194s was them seem a tad boring in comparison to the SL2000. The smoothness came at the expense of some zing. With Ben's cables the zing is back. The highs have always been quite airy and transparent. Now they are more so. I also heard slight sibilance in vocals. The midrange collapsed a bit and the center vocal image sounds markedly louder. Bass seemed to lose some slight definition and punch. The soundstage re-arranged itself, imaging seems deeper, not quite as wide, less wrap around with the SDA effect. After about an hour of playing familiar CDs and DVD As, the sibilance disappeared. Key points of detail are placed differently in the soundstage, I've gained height and depth, lost some width (with SDAs, that's a non-issue). After 6 hours the bass came back tighter and more defined ( I noticed this last night). I reported all this to Ben. He told me initially, the ICs will sound congested and the bass will improve. I believe him. These cables are getting better far more quickly than I expected. I did all this comparison with source being my Oppo 980 universal. A player I've been satisfied with as a bang for the buck, all in one music/DVD platform.

That get's me back to the Sony. It's a fine BD player(video), but sucks musicaly in comparison (thus I kept the Oppo). My HK won't pass HDMI audio, so I need to use the analog connections to get the lossless BD codecs. It's converted to PCM. I put the Silver ICs on the fronts, the Dbacks on the center (source to pre, pre to amp) and left the surrounds on the Monster ICs. I put in a couple of BDs, Flight of the Phoenix (DTS MA) and Spiderman 3 (DD lossless PCM). My center image did improve, voices are less bassy, but the front soundstage still sounds ill defined and the LFE is miles behind the digital (compressed) DD or DTS tracks. I'm at a loss. I guess I'll just have to breakdown and get a pre that supports these codecs through HDMI because IMO, PCM via analog is a mess. It's not awful, but it ain't better and I'm slightly pissed about it.

Anybody else dissatisfied? Any suggestions?

So I've gained and learned something. Ben's ICs are the real deal. The AQs are good and I felt they added a level of detail to my system. Ben's added some zing to that and they are getting better as we speak. I may keep the AQs, but for sure I'm replacing the rest with Ben's.

Combo rig:

Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
PB13Ultra RO
BW Silvers
Oppo BDP-83SE
Post edited by Ron Temple on

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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
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    Thanks Ron for the write up. I am glad you are enjoying them.
    Ben

    Edit
    The sound stage will open up a bit after the burn-in;)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,243
    edited July 2008
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    I've got Ben's speaker cables on my tweeters. Immediate improvement in detail, space, air, but no harshness whatsoever.

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Sony 75" Bravia 4K | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Rotel Michi P5 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
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    I-SIG wrote: »
    I've got Ben's speaker cables on my tweeters. Immediate improvement in detail, space, air, but no harshness whatsoever.

    Wes

    I am using the same recipe. I am using my Silvers high, and AQ's low;) I am thinking about increasing the ga to see if I can get a little more bass for single wire configurations:)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited July 2008
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    I just ordered a set from Ben to replace Signal Analog IIs connecting my HK to the XPA-5. Lonnie the engineer assured me that they'll play nice with the amp. Combining a warm receiver with a warm amp and the LSis produce a very smooth and laid back sound for jazz, acoustics, and female vocals but too mellow for HT, which is the main purpose of my rig. Voices sound congested and a bit compressed. Even the soundstage is recessed, which contradicts what most people have experienced with this amp.

    So I'm hoping to gain some of that airy, open highs and detail that's missing from my current set up
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited July 2008
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    iskandam wrote: »
    I just ordered a set from Ben to replace Signal Analog IIs connecting my HK to the XPA-5. Lonnie the engineer assured me that they'll play nice with the amp. ....

    Iskandam, let us know how that works out. I was under the impression that this combo was a problem...possible shielding issue? Or did Lonnie figure out the cause? Or somebody else a solution? See this link and the post below.
    acsubie wrote: »
    but for grabs i have a set of (5) silver ICs with locking RCAs, they are all 3ft in length....got them less than 2 months back from ours truly, ben....sound great but unfortunately ONLY reason i am selling is because my new XPA amp does not want to play nicely with them(compatibility issue with that amp and silver cables)...these will work great with an other amp as they did with my LPA, hate to see them go...
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited July 2008
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    I'm aware of the issue but Lonnie assured me that as long as the ICs are properly shielded then it makes no difference what material they're made out of. He said some people experienced that problem with copper cables that are unshielded so that seems to be the culprit here. I've never tried silver before so this is the perfect opportunity for me to see what all the fuss is about :D
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
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    iskandam wrote: »
    I'm aware of the issue but Lonnie assured me that as long as the ICs are properly shielded then it makes no difference what material they're made out of. He said some people experienced that problem with copper cables that are unshielded so that seems to be the culprit here. I've never tried silver before so this is the perfect opportunity for me to see what all the fuss is about :D

    There may have been an issue with rf that another polkie had prblems with. If these have any issues (iskandam you reading) I'll provide full shielding for him at my cost;)
    Thanks
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited July 2008
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    I got Ben's silver ICs over the weekend and immediately replaced my Signal Analog IIs with them. Despite Lonnie's assurance there was still a long moment of pause before powering everything up. So with sweat rolling down my face, my trembling hand reached for the power button on the HK receiver... then the power knob behind the XPA-5... then the switch in front of the unit...... and the blue lights started flashing one by one... and they stayed blue!

    It didn't shut down! It worked!!!

    First thing I did was run some 2 channel playback with the LSi15s. I replaced my Signal Ultra bi-wire cables with Ben's silver speaker cable that I got from tcrossma last week. Female vocals first: Norah Jones, Sophie B Hawkins, Madonna, and Enya. The sound is noticeably smoother, more open and detailed, a bit more decay at the end of each note. No difference in bass. Overall more pleasing sound from this combo.

    I switched to HT. I was still using a pair of anticables in bi-wire configuration on the LSiC. Dialog sounds better and not as dull, but nowhere near as open as music. I suspect this will improve when I replace them with Ben's silver speaker cable to complete my front soundstage. Again, better detail and more open sound.

    So far I've been very impressed with Ben's silver ICs and speaker cables. I had 16 hours on them up to this point. They really took my XPA-5 and LSis to another level of detail and clarity that I've been looking for. I really can't wait to get them completely broken in so I can realize their full potential!
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited July 2008
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    That's great to hear! Awesome!
    Are the ICs shielded?
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited July 2008
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    Ben said they have Kimber PBJ-style shielding. I'm sure he can get into a more technical explanation than that but that seemed to do the job :D
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited July 2008
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    OK, I wasn't sure since he mentioned he would provide full shielding if they didn't work out.
    Ben, were acsubie's cables the same? Or were they non-shielded?

    Sorry for all the questions, I have the XPA-5 and am just curious.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
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    He must of had another source of serious RFI, or MFI. If you have ground loop problems these may also be magnified by a high quality cable design. Glad to hear that your system is giving you more performance. I have the other speaker cable done. Please send me an email with your Addy to my screen name @yahoo.com
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited July 2008
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    YGM :D

    Guys, Ben's silver cables are the real deal, both the IC and speaker cables. If I'd known about them last year I would've saved a lot of time and $$ rotating cables.
  • stereojunkie
    stereojunkie Posts: 10
    edited August 2008
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    are his cables made of the same cable as the I/C's?
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited August 2008
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    Just plugged in another couple of pairs of Ben's ICs on the center (source & amp) and surrounds (source). They are behaving just like the first set. An immediate noticeable difference in the upper mid and treble range, slight sibilance, but quite an improvement. It takes about 2 weeks for them to settle down, but again, these are really nice cables.

    Hey Ben, leave me some feedback ;^).

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited August 2008
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    I've got 3/prs of the Silvers and I need 2 pair more. I was watching BR last night so the Sony player was still hooked up when I decided to listen to some 2 channel music this afternoon. I hate the Sony S300 for music, but I was too lazy to change over. Well, somethings changed. The unlistenable harsh highs are just detailed, the hole in the midrange is smoothed and detailed and the bass is punchy and tight. I've put in about 5 of my favorites. Some I couldn't listen too. What a difference. I'll do some listening vs the Oppo later, but I had Diamondbacks and Corals on that chain and I'm totally amazed at the difference. I still have the Corals on the pre/amp stage, but they and the Monsters between the pre and Carver are going. Should have done it all at once and maybe Ben would have given me a discount ;).

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited August 2008
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    PM sent:)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited September 2008
    Options
    Ron Temple wrote: »
    I've got 3/prs of the Silvers and I need 2 pair more. I was watching BR last night so the Sony player was still hooked up when I decided to listen to some 2 channel music this afternoon. I hate the Sony S300 for music, but I was too lazy to change over. Well, somethings changed. The unlistenable harsh highs are just detailed, the hole in the midrange is smoothed and detailed and the bass is punchy and tight. I've put in about 5 of my favorites. Some I couldn't listen too. What a difference. I'll do some listening vs the Oppo later, but I had Diamondbacks and Corals on that chain and I'm totally amazed at the difference. I still have the Corals on the pre/amp stage, but they and the Monsters between the pre and Carver are going. Should have done it all at once and maybe Ben would have given me a discount ;).

    Just thought I'd revisit this. After a month of switching back and forth between the Oppo and the S300, I've come to appreciate the BD players DACs. The Oppo sounds a bit veiled in comparison, not bad, but for Redbook the Sony is now my favorite player. PCM in the hi rez formats is much better. I'm somewhat amazed at this improvement. A definite case of GIGO which evidently the Oppo isn't subject to. I'm now all Silvered up and ready to go. I've never been impressed with DTS Master HD or Dolby True HD prior to the cable switch. Watched Kingdom of Heaven the other night and was floored. The center channel is a moving calibration issue, not player related. I've just got match the correct center volume with the source input. Some disks are more sensitive, but once I get the volume right the chestiness disappears. Kind of a pain in the ****, but I'll put up with it until I get a HDMI friendly pre/pro.

    I'm not going to compliment Ben's cables anymore, but I'm really glad my gear is now living up to expectation.:cool:

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE