Using a Bi-wire cable backwards?

Ceruleance · March 2003

What does everyone think of using a bi-wire cable backwards in a system, in order to biamp to one pair of posts?

izafar · March 2003

As I understand you are trying to send the output of two amps into one pair of posts. If this is so then I think it will destroy your amps as well as the speaker.

HBombToo · March 2003

yep

RuSsMaN · March 2003

BOOM!

organ · March 2003

If you want to bi-amp, you can't use a bi-wire cable. Just use normal runs to each binding post. One set of cables for the HF and another for the LF.

Maurice

Ceruleance · March 2003

traditionally, yes, but my non-polk powered towers only have a single set of posts.

mantis · March 2003

And what are those mystery speakers called??MOdel,maybe a pic??

organ · March 2003

Oh I see. I wouldn't use two amps and bi-amp backwards. I don't think anybody has tried doing something like that.
Since your speakers only have one set of posts, why don't you try bridging? This will double the power going into each speaker. Bridge only when your speakers are 8ohms or higher.
What speakers are they? and which amps are you using?

Maurice

Ceruleance · March 2003

Alright, so it was a theoretical question, and this is why:

I own Infinity IL60's (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14993&item=3013446178 thats the best source of info on them cause infinity's website doesnt have them on it anymore)

I own a Carver M-500t and an M-1.0t. 251 and 200 w/ch respectively, which means biamping would make 451 watts, into already overpowered 170 watt rated speakers. One of the reasons I asked though, was because I am considering Infinity Intermezzo 4.1's, which are also powered towers with only one set of posts, but are rated to 500 w/ch each, making it worth it to biamp. The 4.1's can be seen on infinity's site, infinitysystems.com.

Actually, in my situation bridging would more than double the output, 700 watts for the M-500t and 1000 watts for the M-1.0t, which is exactly the problem, mismatched ratings.

Im not quite clear on why the amps would blow up? someone clear it up for me?

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@ $ 8 ohm load
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well looks like the site wont let me post my circuit diagram accurately, but you get the point

organ · March 2003

Those Infinities are nice speakers. Your amps are very good as well which makes me wonder why you need more power. When you mentioned about the amps blowing up, were you talking about the bi-amping into single posts or bridging? If you bi-amp into a single post, your power will increase and I don't think it will harm the amp. The only thing that would worry me about that set up is phase problems because you will be using different amps. One amp may sound a little quicker than the other and this may blur your sound. If you meant blowing up from bridging, see my reply to ATCVenom's post about bridging. The impedance of each speaker will be cut by half. But since your speakers are 8ohms, there shouldn't be a problem.
Like I said before, I don't think there will be a problem with your style of "bi-amping" but just to make sure, you should e-mail Carver and ask them.
Even though the 4.1's may have very high power ratings, a single amp driving them will not be underpowered. You won't be pushing those speakers to 500watts. I bet your ears will give up way before the amp. You might want to try e-mailing Infinity as well.

Maurice

Tour2ma · March 2003

Ceruleance,

Call Carver... (425) 335-4748.

I don't believe you're looking at an immediate meltdown here of the amps, and I think the speakers would be fine, but I think the problem develops with the amps' external feedback loops. Please note all the "I believes" and "I thinks"... never been down this road

Their mismatched outputs would be summed at the speaker (OK so far). But the unused portions of the output signal would also be summed, divided by two and returned to the amps. The average returned signals would not be equal to what either amp would see if it were operating alone with the same input signal. I think this would "confuse" them. At the very least it would sound bad and at worst... ???

All the above said, I have to ask, what are you trying to accomplish here? Either amp alone has the power to drive your speakers to ear splitting levels. Neither can drive them to extinction alone, theyre protection circuitry prevents that (but together as you suggest, these circuits may be compromised as well).

Of course all this is from a guy that is still determined to bridge a pair of M1.5ts

so I do understand the pursuit of Power for its own sake. If you want to go down this path, pick your favorite of the two you own, sell the other and buy a matching amp for the one you keep. Probably wont cost you more than $100 to do so.

Edit: My reply was interrupted by a call, and I see Organ chimed in with similar advice in the meantime... happy to have the company Maurice...

Ceruleance · March 2003

You're right, I dont need more power, it was just kind of a what if question. I was talking about going to a single post with both amps in stereo mode, and your phase problems point is a good one. I also think if I get the 4.1's i probably wont need more than one of either amp in stereo config., but they are pretty inefficient speakers and by the time I get the 4.1s I will be in a larger room than I am in now. Oh, and I have young fresh ears and a teenage lack of risk assessment, fun times!

All in all thanks for addressing the questions that just popped into mind, despite their feasibility.

Ceruleance · March 2003

Tour, I as in the middle of posting at the same time you were. You also have a good point about the external feedback loops. All in all, I dont think I'm gonna try it

Bridging 1.5's? 1200 watts/ch? yikees. I assume thats going to go into those Amazings that you have, correct? I still hope to get an audition of those sometime, my plans with George fell through unfortunately.

EDIT: I'd like to bring it to everyone's attention that 10 people think I am an idiot already:rolleyes:

Tour2ma · March 2003

No prob's... (Is the whole Club up late tonite?)

Actually brought a new thread to mind here that I just posted...

And BTW, there's a lot more than 10 that think that....

Using a Bi-wire cable backwards?

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