Receiver/Processor. Decisions Decisions.

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poolshark
poolshark Posts: 10
edited February 2008 in Electronics
Hey all, thanks for having me. Just looking for your 2 cents as I build my setup into something halfway decent/respectable.

I'm pretty much starting from scratch with the exception of a few components.


Currently---

Display: Sony Bravia XBR4
Fronts: RTi10
Amp: Parasound HCA 2205a (220 W x 5)

And that's it. I'm kinda piecing it together, but eventually (soon) I'd like to actually get some audio out of these speakers. hah.


Planning to add---

Center: CSi5
Rears: TBD
Sub: TBD
Blu-Ray/DVD/CD/Gaming: PS3
Receiver/Processor - No idea whatsoever.


My biggest confusion right now lies in the receiver/processor. At first I was convinced I should go the Denon/HK receiver route to compliment the Polk speakers, but really I only need something like a Outlaw 970 (or 990) preamp/processor, right?

But then there's the HDMI support issue. Do we know when Outlaw will be releasing their new equipment? I guess I'd prefer to wait a few months if the new processors will be coming out, but I'd sure like something in the interim.

so whatcha say?
Post edited by poolshark on
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  • lakesailor
    lakesailor Posts: 319
    edited February 2008
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    You already have a nice amp. So there is no need to get a new AVR when you can get a new pre/pros instead. The NAD T175 has all of the features you are after (including HDMI 1.3) and can be had for under $ 2K Or you can wait for Outlaw to release something similar. I doubt it will be a very long wait.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited February 2008
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    Welcome Poolshark!

    I would also recommend going the prepro route. But then you had to throw in the monkey wrench of HDMI which I couldn't care less about.

    Look at Outlaw, Onkyo's new prepro, (which I believe has hdmi) Rotel, a matching Parasound, Sunfire, etc.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited February 2008
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    Poolshark - I think it depends on what type of budget you need and what features you really want.

    If you really want/need HDMI but have a limited budget, go with an HK or Denon AVR. They offer good features per dollar, even if you never touch their amp section. HDMI switching, new format processing, calibration, etc. are well worth their cost, in my opinion.

    If you really want/need HDMI and have a big budget, wait a few months and grab one of the HDMI pre-pros when they hit the market. Might be buggy as most will be beta releases, but if you grabbed one from B&K, Rotel, etc. you'd be in great shape.

    If you don't need/want HDMI, you can get an older pre-pro for cheap with everything else but HDMI. B&K Ref 50's, for example, can be had for $700 these days. Lot of other great options, too, for under $1K if you don't require HDMI.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • poolshark
    poolshark Posts: 10
    edited February 2008
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    Thanks for the input, fellas. I'm looking into everything.

    The good news is the HDMI issue might not be an issue. I just figured if it was only going to be a few months, maybe it's worth waiting? The TV has plenty of inputs to work with, so I probably shouldn't sweat it.

    With respect to budget, it's not unlimited, but I'm willing to do what it takes to do it right the first time.

    Another ignorant question---and I'm sure this is difficult to quantify, but what are the key benefits of getting a $1000+ pre-pro over a $400 HK receiver? I expect to use the system 50/50 home theater/music. I guess what I'm saying is, what am I gaining going the pre-pro route? Can't the HK handle everything the PS3 puts out? Is it just the quality? I feel like I'm missing the punch line of the joke here.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2008
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    Another vote for the pre/pro route. I have done both.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,811
    edited February 2008
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    If you don't need HDMI, Sound City is closing out the NAD T163, this is the model that the T175 replaces. I personally don't like NAD, I've had bad luck with them before, but at this price, even I would consider it if I needed a pre-pro:

    http://www.soundcity.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=570

    Keep in mind, if you are going to go HD DVD or Blu Ray, you need HDMI to get the latest lossless codecs. If the player you buy does not do the decoding internally, you will need support of the new formats in the pre-pro, which the new NAD T175 does NOT support. Don't know what they were thinking there.
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited February 2008
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    HK will do everything you need, but I think people believe that pre-pros offer better processing / digital audio conversion and such.

    I'm not sure how much of a difference a dedicated pre-pro will make over an AVR as a pre-pro since I haven't ventured down that route as of yet.

    I think, if you choose to go pre-pro, that the B&K ref 50 is a steal at current used prices. You might want to grab one of them. Sure it has 5.1 analog inputs so you can run your high-def player to it to get the latest audio formats (TrueHD, DTS-HD, etc.).
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • lakesailor
    lakesailor Posts: 319
    edited February 2008
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    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    If you don't need HDMI, Sound City is closing out the NAD T163, this is the model that the T175 replaces. I personally don't like NAD, I've had bad luck with them before, but at this price, even I would consider it if I needed a pre-pro:

    http://www.soundcity.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=570

    Keep in mind, if you are going to go HD DVD or Blu Ray, you need HDMI to get the latest lossless codecs. If the player you buy does not do the decoding internally, you will need support of the new formats in the pre-pro, which the new NAD T175 does NOT support. Don't know what they were thinking there.

    That is a great deal. Mind you if you use a PS3 for your Blu Ray they are HDMI 1.3
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  • poolshark
    poolshark Posts: 10
    edited February 2008
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    ehh...okay so this may have gotten a little heavier than I thought.

    I was/am planning to use the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player....so does the PS3 do internal decoding, or am I SOL on an older model pre-pro that does not support HDMI 1.3?
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,811
    edited February 2008
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    The PS3 does internal decoding, but I don't believe it has analog outputs. I think the only option is HDMI out. I don't have one, maybe someone who does will comment.
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  • lakesailor
    lakesailor Posts: 319
    edited February 2008
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    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    The PS3 does internal decoding, but I don't believe it has analog outputs. I think the only option is HDMI out. I don't have one, maybe someone who does will comment.

    As far as I know I think that the PS3 does have one analog output.
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  • Rike255
    Rike255 Posts: 131
    edited February 2008
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    AV Output:
    · HDMI out
    · Analog - AV MULTI OUT x 1
    · Digital audio - DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
    Polk Audio RTi8 Fronts
    Polk Audio CSi A6 Center
    Polk Audio RTi A3 Surrounds
    Polk Audio PSW505 Subwoofer
    Onkyo TX-SR805
    Sony Bravia V5100 46"
    Sony Playstation 3 160GB
    Sony Playstation 3 120GB Slim
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited February 2008
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    is the Analog out just red, white, yellow? Stereo and composite video?
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,811
    edited February 2008
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    AndyGwis wrote: »
    is the Analog out just red, white, yellow? Stereo and composite video?

    From what I have read, it is red, white, and component out (5 cables).
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited February 2008
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    Cool, just curious.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • Rike255
    Rike255 Posts: 131
    edited February 2008
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    There's a proprietary output on the PS3 which supports both composite and component (although I've never tried component). Either way it's simply 1 output so stereo sound.
    Polk Audio RTi8 Fronts
    Polk Audio CSi A6 Center
    Polk Audio RTi A3 Surrounds
    Polk Audio PSW505 Subwoofer
    Onkyo TX-SR805
    Sony Bravia V5100 46"
    Sony Playstation 3 160GB
    Sony Playstation 3 120GB Slim
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  • poolshark
    poolshark Posts: 10
    edited February 2008
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    So if someone was, say, still interested in HDMI support...


    Option 1 - Get a new/nice used pre-pro (no HDMI support). Seems to be $800ish.

    Option 2 - Get a new receiver that supports HDMI (HK 247). $400ish.

    Option 3 - Wait for HDMI pre-pro's to become more mainstream. Get one. $1000+.


    Now that I've spent a week thinking about it, here's how I think I'm going to play it.


    Option 1 is okay, but I think I'm gonna feel like I spent a lot of money on equipment that is outgoing, albeit unnecessary.

    Option 2 is good. It allows me to get current now, but does not fulfill my desire to have a nice pre-pro.

    Option 3 is ideal, but I can't wait that long.


    All that said, unless someone can sway me, I see myself getting the HK 247 (option 2). Then a year or so from now getting a HDMI pre-pro (option 3). It may be a little more money in the long run, but it should ensure that my equipment is relatively up to date. It also means I'll own a respectable receiver that I could use in another room somewhere down the road.

    Now that I've convinced myself, tell me the flaws!
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  • poolshark
    poolshark Posts: 10
    edited February 2008
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    Flaws, I say.
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  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited February 2008
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    HDMI is overrated, get a good pre now. Just my 2 cents.
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited February 2008
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    Agree with Tcrossma.

    HDMI isn't so much about giving us ease of use, it's about giving the RIAA the ability to control what we use the equipment for.

    I'll keep my multiple machines that I can do whatever I want with through the tons of wires that I have connecting them all!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • poolshark
    poolshark Posts: 10
    edited February 2008
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    sheesh man, you guys don't make this easy. That combined with some of the HK 247 isses I've read about on AVS has driven me to Option 4---delay tactic.

    I found a nice AVR325 on my local Craigslist for $150. No HDMI, but it should hold me over until I bite on a pre-pro.

    Do it? word.
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  • vonnie123
    vonnie123 Posts: 326
    edited February 2008
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    Check out the Emotiva Pre/Pro. I just bought the MMC-1 for $699 and it does a great job. I'm still learning the setup but the sound was a serious improvement over using an HTR as a processor.

    www.emotiva.com
    [
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  • poolshark
    poolshark Posts: 10
    edited February 2008
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    vonnie123 wrote: »
    Check out the Emotiva Pre/Pro. I just bought the MMC-1 for $699 and it does a great job. I'm still learning the setup but the sound was a serious improvement over using an HTR as a processor.

    www.emotiva.com

    I like the MMC-1, but it only carries HDMI video, right?
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  • vonnie123
    vonnie123 Posts: 326
    edited February 2008
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    poolshark wrote: »
    I like the MMC-1, but it only carries HDMI video, right?

    Correct. I clipped the below excerpt from the MMC-1 manual for info. I am not using the HDMI at all on my system at this time.


    HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) is an uncompressed, all-digital audio/video interface in a single cable. HDMI supports standard, enhanced, or high-definition video, plus multi-channel digital audio on a single cable. It transmits all ATSC HDTV standards and supports 8-channel, 192kHz, uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby Digital and DTS).

    Only HDMI video inputs and outputs are supported on board the Emotiva MMC-1 chassis. This offers full compatibility with 2 HDMI input devices and an output to an HDMI display device. The HDMI inputs track "SAT" and "DVD" commands from the Emotiva remote. The HDMI section of MMC-1 supports 480i, 480p, 720p, 720i, and 1080i, 1080p resolutions.

    Audio is not switched through the HDMI connections on the MMC-1 nor are any of the other video inputs "transferred" over to the HDMI output. If you do not connect any HDMI inputs, there will be no output on HDMI. If you only connect one of the two HDMI inputs, there will only be a video signal on the HDMI output when that source is selected. This may mean that you need to use both HDMI and another video connection to your television to bring in all the video sources switched through the various video inputs present on MMC-1.
    [
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