Difference between 100 and 200 wpc in amp?

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Comments

  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited January 2008
    I feel that the HK-RTi combo that I have produce a balanced sound that I like. I don't like overly bright sound but don't like warm tube sound either, which I find to be too dull for HT. So I'm wary about the selection of amp.

    So far I heard that Adcom is neutral so it would work out with my combo. I'm also considering Rotel and B&K but have been hearing conflicting things about their sound characteristic...
  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2008
    jakelm wrote: »
    The Adcom sold for alittle over $500. Is this a normal used price?

    I think I paid $450 for mine, so this sold in the right range.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3

    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited January 2008
    Can't really go wrong with multichannel amps like Adcom 7400 or B&K AV5000. Both should be in the $300-400 price range and give you around 5*100W. I've had both and I prefer the B&K but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Adcom either.
  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2008
    iskandam wrote: »
    I feel that the HK-RTi combo that I have produce a balanced sound that I like. I don't like overly bright sound but don't like warm tube sound either, which I find to be too dull for HT. So I'm wary about the selection of amp.

    So far I heard that Adcom is neutral so it would work out with my combo. I'm also considering Rotel and B&K but have been hearing conflicting things about their sound characteristic...

    You really can't go wrong using ADCOM for your first step into external amplification. It's not the end-all of amplifiers, but a very solid start. So much so that I can some to convince myself that I need to upgrade from here, if you can believe that!
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3

    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2008
    Kex wrote: »
    I would be very careful when considering sweeping statements about amplification in your case (and jakelm is in a similar situation). I was thinking that the modest 40w/ch of my harman/kardon 147 would be miniaturized in comparison to the 125w/ch of an Emotiva LPA-1. Not so. First of all, it turns out that the h/k outputs much more power than stated (albeit measured at 0.1% THD, which is higher than h/k's own measurement) making the difference in w/ch less than originally expected. Secondly, in stereo comparisons, I could never tell the difference. Thirdly, like mine, your speakers are not what might be considered difficult to drive. Whatever the explanation, I would be careful with budget multi-channel amplifiers when compared to something like a h/k 247. I was obviously disappointed and did not keep the Emotiva, but the lesson was not free.

    For movies, I usually set the sound at -18dB (the scale on my 147 goes from -80dB to +8dB, IIRC). For music, it's usually between -30dB and -20dB. Both are loud enough for me in a room that is about 20'x15' with one large and one small opening.

    One final point. When I tested the Emotiva, I still found it "unpleasant" to listen above 75dB (measured with a SPL meter), and even getting to higher levels required turning the knob to 60 on a scale of 0-80, beyond which I was not prepared to go (my ears were telling me to stop) so I was not impressed with anything that could be described as added clarity or detail. Another club member dbaldus, also has a similar setup to you, and uses a 247. He did not keep his LPA-1 either because he could not tell the difference. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62755&highlight=Emotiva

    Both dbladus and myself are still hoping to find better power, so neither of us are denying the benefits of added amplification, but quality does seem to matter. There is also a widely discussed idea that 200w/ch is necessary to really make a difference. YMMV.

    Good point, but make sure he takes into account my statements. I have made a very similar upgrade progression to what he is considering and noticed a very large difference between my HK 635 and the ADCOM amps.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3

    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited January 2008
    a_mattison wrote: »
    Good point, but make sure he takes into account my statements. I have made a very similar upgrade progression to what he is considering and noticed a very large difference between my HK 635 and the ADCOM amps.

    Thats what I am trying to achieve. A better fuller soundstage. With the option to drive my system alittle harder.

    My room is 25L x 16W x 9H open to the dining. So alot of space to fill with sound. Hopefully an external amp will help me achieve this.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited January 2008
    Kex wrote: »
    In my case, the h/k does everything I need for HT, so that is not an issue. Music listening is where I want something more.

    And I'm just the oposite. I run my HK alot harder for HT, but for music it does an excellent job.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,066
    edited January 2008
    kEX......If your feeling good about your ht and not music,might be time to move up the food chain and grab some new speakers.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited January 2008
    tonyb wrote: »
    kEX......If your feeling good about your ht and not music,might be time to move up the food chain and grab some new speakers.

    That sounds like fun....:D

    Edit: Sorry to just jump in your thread with a meaningless post.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,066
    edited January 2008
    Don't feel bad,75% of the posts here are meaningless.:p
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,218
    edited January 2008
    I quite like the combo I have HK/Marantz with my rtis.
  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited January 2008
    a_mattison wrote: »
    Good point, but make sure he takes into account my statements. I have made a very similar upgrade progression to what he is considering and noticed a very large difference between my HK 635 and the ADCOM amps.
    This is very encouraging. I'm quite happy with my HK-RTi combo so far, but if $3-400 can get me that wider soundstage, night and day improvement, and tighter bass that everybody has been talking about then I'm not done yet.

    a_mattison, I also have a Velodyne CHT-12. The next step is to upgrade the sub, but let's not get ahead of ourselves now :D
  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2008
    iskandam wrote: »
    This is very encouraging. I'm quite happy with my HK-RTi combo so far, but if $3-400 can get me that wider soundstage, night and day improvement, and tighter bass that everybody has been talking about then I'm not done yet.

    a_mattison, I also have a Velodyne CHT-12. The next step is to upgrade the sub, but let's not get ahead of ourselves now :D

    :D That Velo isn't too bad of a sub. It's no SVS, but seems to pressurize my basement very well. It's a little slow, but not too sloppy.

    The good news is, if you buy an ADCOM amp and don't think it made enough of an improvement, you can sell it and only be out the shipping it cost you to get it there.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3

    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited January 2008
    Kex wrote: »
    Hmmm. That makes me wonder if what you need is not a new subwoofer ... and/or speakers! I have no idea how your current subwoofer measures up though, so I am just thinking "out loud", so to "speak"!

    Aren't you using Monitor 7 and Monitor 4? That might also be an important factor in both cases (music and HT). Maybe we should just swap speakers: I'll probably get better music, and you'll possibly get better HT!


    I have 2 subs, 1 SVS DIY and a Dayton DIY, Subs are not the problem. My HT isnt bad, by far, I just want mooooorrrreeeee:p

    Hmmm...Monitor 7's and 4's, bad for music amd HT??? Nah, its the amplification, thats needs improving..
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited February 2008
    Ok this is seriously pi$$ing me off. I've been getting outbid on various amps (Carver, Adcom, B&K, Rotel) on eBay this past week... in the last 5 to 10 seconds :mad: On one of them the price jumped over $100 in the last 10 seconds. I'm gonna try pawn shops instead
  • DannyD
    DannyD Posts: 133
    edited February 2008
    Are u using proxy bidding. That's the the key to winning items on ebay.
    Fronts: RTI10's
    Center: CSIA6
    Rears: RTIA3's
    Sub: 15" Velodyne DLS5000R x2 Stacked:D:D:D
    Amp: Marantz MM-9000 150wpc (bi-amped for RTI10's) and CSIA6
    Blu-Ray: PS3
    Harman Kardon AVR247
    Monster Cables
    Signal Analog II IC's
    Panamax MP-5300 Power Conditioner