Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks . . .

2

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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,804
    edited January 2008
    Caps charge in milliseconds. In the case of an amp, they are constantly charging and dis-charging while playing music. So the idea that it can take hours (or even days) to fully charge is ridiculous.

    I can't think of anything else in an amp that needs to "charge".
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    I humbly disagree. Something charges up or breaks in after the unit has been on for a while. There is a distinct change. Klaus says its the capacitors charging. I don't really care what black magic he's finessed into these things, either way they sound amazing.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,945
    edited January 2008
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Caps charge in milliseconds. In the case of an amp, they are constantly charging and dis-charging while playing music. So the idea that it can take hours (or even days) to fully charge is ridiculous.
    Please allow me to say that this statement is ridiculous WilliamM2. I am experiencing sonic changes with each passing hour. Have you any experience with this amp?

    Please keep comments to things you actually have experience with.

    I've experienced this with the Rega CDP [over two weeks], certain amps [days to weeks] and many folks have experienced this with tubes, CDP's, amps, certain IC's and PC's. Though you may not hear it, we do. As I've said before, everybody can't be wrong.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited January 2008
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Please allow me to say that this statement is ridiculous WilliamM2. I am experiencing sonic changes with each passing hour. Have you any experience with this amp?

    Please keep comments to things you actually have experience with.

    I've experienced this with the Rega CDP [over two weeks], certain amps [days to weeks] and many folks have experienced this with tubes, CDP's, amps, certain IC's and PC's. Though you may not hear it, we do. As I've said before, everybody can't be wrong.

    Bingo,, Klaus told me that they would sound like "****" out of the box,and there are many threads on another forum that will attest to this.Case in point,my brother just bought a pair,,left em on,played them for 24/7.I went over to see him last night,,and I thought that he had something else in the mix,,nope just had a few hundred hours on the odysseys,,Klaus must know his amps pretty well,as he pretty much told my brother the same as me,,they do,in fact change for the better(sonically) after breaki\ in,for lack of a better term.YMMV. --george
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,804
    edited January 2008
    Calm down treitz,
    I have experienced equipment that sounds better after warming up as well. Probably due to the fact that the values of some components will change with temperature.

    I was specifically refering to his claim that caps can take hours, or even days to charge fully. It's ****, plain and simple. If it were true, every time the cap discharged, which they do constantly, it would be days before the sound returned to normal.

    You guys all tend to think there is some kind of "magic" in electronics. There isn't.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,804
    edited January 2008
    Zero wrote: »
    I'm not gunna get into this; but caps CAN take many hours to discharge.

    Actually, caps can hold a charge for months, or longer. But the question is, how long do they take to charge?
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited January 2008
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Calm down treitz,
    I have experienced equipment that sounds better after warming up as well. Probably due to the fact that the values of some components will change with temperature.

    I was specifically refering to his claim that caps can take hours, or even days to charge fully. It's ****, plain and simple. If it were true, every time the cap discharged, which they do constantly, it would be days before the sound returned to normal.

    You guys all tend to think there is some kind of "magic" in electronics. There isn't.

    We don't need to get hung up on the terms, "charge" and "discharge," but what I hear folks saying is caps (and perhaps other parts of the amp) need time to break in and remain so. With the Odyssey, it appears to take longer than most other amps for reasons unknown.

    I made the mistake of being too hasty when I bought a Stratos from George Daniel and didn't wait long enough for the amp to break in before making a judgment about its sound quality.

    Patience is rewarded with this amp.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited January 2008
    Early B. wrote: »
    We don't need to get hung up on the terms, "charge" and "discharge," but what I hear folks saying is caps (and perhaps other parts of the amp) need time to break in and remain so. With the Odyssey, it appears to take longer than most other amps for reasons unknown.

    I made the mistake of being too hasty when I bought a Stratos from George Daniel and didn't wait long enough for the amp to break in before making a judgment about its sound quality.

    Patience is rewarded with this amp.

    So true.:)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,804
    edited January 2008
    We don't need to get hung up on the terms, "charge" and "discharge," but what I hear folks saying is caps (and perhaps other parts of the amp) need time to break in and remain so. With the Odyssey, it appears to take longer than most other amps for reasons unknown.

    I wasn't talking about break in. This is the original text I quoted:
    Even after the initial break-in period, the internal components lose their charge each time the unit is turned off. The full re-charging can take hours (and sometimes days!).

    After break in.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,945
    edited January 2008
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Actually, caps can hold a charge for months, or longer. But the question is, how long do they take to charge?
    Please make your own thread about this. Can you say "thread hi-jack?"

    Here, I'll help you out. I have created your own thread for this discussion.....

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=770900#post770900
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,945
    edited January 2008
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    . . . I just pulled the trigger after an hour long phone call with Klaus. His Customer service is as impeccable as people say, but has to be experienced to be believed. I got all the new boards with upgraded wiring and all the other goodies he could throw at it!

    January 26th is the delivery date. He's going to drop them off at my apartment himself! This is sick.

    Sorry Mark, I know you don't like what I've done, but at least I'm not trading my Adagios for Tylers!

    stratos-title.jpg
    Back to the topic.........
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,804
    edited January 2008
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Please make your own thread about this. Can you say "thread hi-jack?"

    Here, I'll help you out. I have created your own thread for this discussion.....

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=770900#post770900

    Thread-jack? I pulled the quote from this very thread. You jacked the thread, apparently just because you have a problem with me. Grow up.

    But enjoy your new thread. Do a little reading on caps while your at it. Learn how they work, and what they do.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,945
    edited January 2008
    William, currently I am enjoying crap for sound. It was better yesterday. This is for real. I have no problem with you, however this is a thread about Odyssey amps, not caps and how they change the sound or how they charge.

    Hence the "tread Hi-jack" comment.

    Now, can we stay on topic?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,415
    edited January 2008
    you need a beer :)
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    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,945
    edited January 2008
    ....drinking one as we speak. Thanks! :D
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited January 2008
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Please make your own thread about this. Can you say "thread hi-jack?"
    [/url]


    That is a little unfair. A question about caps was asked. WM2 posted a totally logical fact. He said nothing about break-in time. Lets all have a beer... :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • ninerbj
    ninerbj Posts: 870
    edited January 2008
    +1
    Take a pill treitz3
    "she had the body of Venus, with arms."
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    madmax wrote: »
    That is a little unfair. A question about caps was asked. WM2 posted a totally logical fact. He said nothing about break-in time. Lets all have a beer... :)
    madmax

    They're both grown adults. The argument was settled. Let's not go through the regular negotiations of picking sides and pointing fingers. I respect the opinions of both these guys as both are quite intelligent when it comes to audio.

    Let's focus on the topic and try not to get another one of my threads closed. For some reason a number of my favorite threads that I started have been closed for one reason or the other.

    Ok. . . Odyssey. I'm giving Klaus a call to find out what exactly gets charged up when the amps been unplugged for a while.
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited January 2008
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    Ok. . . Odyssey. I'm giving Klaus a call to find out what exactly gets charged up when the amps been unplugged for a while.

    Nothing gets charged when the amps are unplugged....;)
    _________________________________________________
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited January 2008
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    For some reason a number of my favorite threads that I started have been closed for one reason or the other.

    You get extra points for that. ;)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    Yeah I have to say I enjoy the excitement and debate. I guess my gripe is more with the moderators. At any rate, no word from Klaus yet. My Khartago has been unplugged for 3 weeks now. I plan on plugging it in tomorrow after my preamp arrives and doing some testing to see how the sound changes as it recharges. The biggest change last time was the bass. It's so crazy I wish I could understand why.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited January 2008
    I have yet to find any equipment that takes more than 3 days to sound consistant. I can understand that amount of time too. At some point all the internal temperatures remain fairly constant, at least so long as all the other conditions are the same. Other than that I am at a loss.

    I have had times where the bass was very full and other times it was fairly weak. After replacing most of my gear over time it just seemed to not happen any more. Who knows...

    Edit: One thing you could actually monitor is line voltage. Might be a worthwhile thing to keep an eye on, since you can.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    If I had something like a PS Audio Premier Power Plant, that would keep my voltage steady correct? Or would I require a direct power line?
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited January 2008
    Not sure if that one keeps it the same or not. It may be constant depending on where you live. If you have a volt meter you could just measure it whenever you hear something different.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,945
    edited January 2008
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Do a little reading on caps while your at it. Learn how they work, and what they do.
    Thanks for the links there William, but I'm quite sure that I'm well versed on caps as I have maintained and verified their effectiveness and capabilities both in the professional portrait photography studios you have probably had your pictures taken at and in the micrographics / storage data industry.

    What they teach you in school and what you read is one thing. Reality is another. This is very measurable concerning performance and could yield a certain component -or- a 75' long, 3/4 of a million dollar machine inoperable because the end result does not meet the requirements.

    Caps can be weird beasts and sometimes, believe it or not can have there own personality. Age, temperature, build, and usage [draining and recharging] all can have it's way with a particular cap....not all caps, but most certainly with the larger caps. Especially the ones that can kill you with one slip. This has and can be measurable when put under an actual load and not just the test bench.

    That said, I tried to RE-rail this subject off of WilliamM2's statements of "****" and "magic" [Trolling] so that we could talk about the thread subject, which is Odyssey amps.

    My Odyssey is starting to sound sweeeeeeeet, much better than the first day and nothing like last night. Last night there was an over-ponderance of the upper lows and lower mids that was driving me crazy. The highest frequencies are starting to sound wonderful and it seems as if the entire spectrum is smoothing out. So, day 1= one sound. Day 2= another sound. Day 3, yet another sound. Hmmm, just like the Rega Apollo....just quicker on the Odyssey with sonic changes.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    treitz3 wrote: »
    My Odyssey is starting to sound sweeeeeeeet, much better than the first day and nothing like last night. Last night there was an over-ponderance of the upper lows and lower mids that was driving me crazy. The highest frequencies are starting to sound wonderful and it seems as if the entire spectrum is smoothing out. So, day 1= one sound. Day 2= another sound. Day 3, yet another sound. Hmmm, just like the Rega Apollo....just quicker on the Odyssey with sonic changes.

    God, you have me so pumped. I get mine in a couple weeks. Have they been listenable despite not sounding great?
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,945
    edited January 2008
    Eh, certain songs and genre. Others get taken out quickly. Right now, KT Tunstall, "Eye to the Telescope" sounds schweeet.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    Klaus just gave me call. He's finished with my amps and wants to come over Saturday to help me set them up! He's two weeks ahead of schedule! HaHa to all you naysayers who thought he might be late.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,545
    edited January 2008
    Man, you're getting all kinds of new goodies!
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    Just trying to bring my system up to par.
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