Wow! All tv's suck!

polksda · January 2008

mantis wrote: »

The rest of the technologies forget about them.

Ummm.... you need a clue. New-model SXRDs rock!

I'm an early adopter of HDTV, going back to 1st-generation 4:3 models (my first was a 55" Toshiba TN55X81 CRT RPTV). From there I upgraded to a 65" 16:9 Mitsubishi WS65613 CRT RPTV, which was then ISF calibrated. At that time, DLPs were new technology and they and plasmas could not produce a decent black. My how times change. After extensive research, this summer I upgraded to a 70" Sony XBR2, which was also ISF calibrated.

The 1st-generation XBR units had some quality issues, but the XBR2s do not. Short of a front projector environment (which is not an option for me because of too much ambient light), I believe that a properly calibrated XBR2 is visual nirvana.

$300 bulbs? Yes, but you get a spare bulb with the purchase of the set, and if you shop for the appropriate extended warranty, you can get one that covers bulb replacement.

Even though I enjoyed my previous CRT RPTV, the newer technology took the crispness and color accuracy to a whole new level. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray offer much more "3D" viewing experiences with the XBR2.

Yeah, it's big and heavy (180 pounds or so), but that's a step down from the 330 pounds that my Mits was...

Poor WAF compared to dainty LCDs and Plasmas, but whogizzaschitt?

billbillw · January 2008

polksda wrote: »

Ummm.... you need a clue. New-model SXRDs rock!

Too bad Sony is dropping them completely. The A3000 series is one of the best HDTVs you can buy right now (next to the Kuros) and Sony is canceling them and all of their RPTVs to focus on LCD. Really sucks if you ask me.

polksda · January 2008

*bleagh*

Didn't know that. Maybe my SXRD will become a collector's item...

shack · January 2008

After spending a lot of time watching my daughter's new Olevia...I'm impressed. 32" WS LCD for around $470 was a great deal. They are new to the TV business, but they seem to have it right. Time will tell as to the reliability....but so far...so good.

Serendipity · January 2008

Gaara wrote: »

The true 34in XBRs died at the end of 05 with the relase of the XBR970. The XBR960 was the last to utilize the superfine pitch tube, and IMO the XBR960N is the best TV sony has ever produced. Even the 970 was cut short near the beginning of 06.

We have both a XBR960 and XBR960N in the family. IMO, the XBR960 is better for critical viewing in a dim room. The XBR960N is brighter for daylight environments (which may be better in a brightly lit room), but I think the XBR960 is the holy grail of CRT TV's.

tonyb · January 2008

I was bummed this holiday weekend when I had a chance to pick up a
Sony XBR 36 400 off of CL,but the jag sold it out from under me by 5 hours.
Cost,with stand.....150.00,now thats a deal.
The xbr series to me is the best Tube tv made,period.

Gaara · January 2008

appadv wrote: »

We have both a XBR960 and XBR960N in the family. IMO, the XBR960 is better for critical viewing in a dim room. The XBR960N is brighter for daylight environments (which may be better in a brightly lit room), but I think the XBR960 is the holy grail of CRT TV's.

I would think it would be the opposite. Since the N doesn't have the anti-glare screen it should be a slight bit brighter, and perform better then the two in ideal conditions. If you have lots of light in the room the 960 should perform better then the 960N because it has the anti-glare screen.

I still wish I could have seen the Loewe Anaconda, 38in tube tv must have been great, can't beat the 960 though.

Serendipity · January 2008

Gaara wrote: »

I would think it would be the opposite. Since the N doesn't have the anti-glare screen it should be a slight bit brighter, and perform better then the two in ideal conditions. If you have lots of light in the room the 960 should perform better then the 960N because it has the anti-glare screen.

I still wish I could have seen the Loewe Anaconda, 38in tube tv must have been great, can't beat the 960 though.

Sure, but how come for some reason to me the XBR960N is brighter than the XBR960???

It seems like the XBR960 is the darker display out of the two (and yes my family owns both TVs)

bdaley6509 · January 2008

mantis wrote: »

Ok let me help you remove your hate for new tv's.

The rest of the technologies forget about them. DLP in my opnion is horrible. Mitsubishi everything is horrible and it's a shame as they used to be one of the very best in rear projection tv's. I'm so disappointed in even there brand new diamond series. It's just sucks. Yes it's huge but hey even in tv's , size isn't everything.

Dan

I disagree. I recently purchased a 65" Mitsi and couldn't be happier. I like it better than my 50" SXRD, and not just due to the extra real estate.

Gaara · January 2008

appadv wrote: »

Sure, but how come for some reason to me the XBR960N is brighter than the XBR960???

It seems like the XBR960 is the darker display out of the two (and yes my family owns both TVs)

First, that is awesome that you own both. Second, it should be brighter. The anti-glare in the 960 should decrease the light output, albeit not by much. This makes the 960N the brighter of the two. You would think this would make it better in bright environments but without the anti-glare it is inferior to the 960. I prefer the N but I have blackout curtains so light isn't a issue.

Disc Jockey · January 2008

Gaara wrote: »

Last I checked SED was dead, Toshiba dropped out due to the huge lawsuits and Canon found it was to pricey to continue with the constantly dropping prices of flat panels.

SED is still alive but when it's coming to market remains to be seen. Canon is going ahead on their own but using their own technology rather than using (and paying for) the technologies developed by Nano-Proprietary.

mark090852 · January 2008

polksda wrote: »

Ummm.... you need a clue. New-model SXRDs rock!

I'm an early adopter of HDTV, going back to 1st-generation 4:3 models (my first was a 55" Toshiba TN55X81 CRT RPTV). From there I upgraded to a 65" 16:9 Mitsubishi WS65613 CRT RPTV, which was then ISF calibrated. At that time, DLPs were new technology and they and plasmas could not produce a decent black. My how times change. After extensive research, this summer I upgraded to a 70" Sony XBR2, which was also ISF calibrated.

The 1st-generation XBR units had some quality issues, but the XBR2s do not. Short of a front projector environment (which is not an option for me because of too much ambient light), I believe that a properly calibrated XBR2 is visual nirvana.

$300 bulbs? Yes, but you get a spare bulb with the purchase of the set, and if you shop for the appropriate extended warranty, you can get one that covers bulb replacement.

Even though I enjoyed my previous CRT RPTV, the newer technology took the crispness and color accuracy to a whole new level. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray offer much more "3D" viewing experiences with the XBR2.

Yeah, it's big and heavy (180 pounds or so), but that's a step down from the 330 pounds that my Mits was...

Poor WAF compared to dainty LCDs and Plasmas, but whogizzaschitt?

I agree. The picture on our 60" XBR2 set is nothing less than spectacular. Neighbors always come to our house to see the "best" picture in the neighborhood. We've had it just over a year now and will probably get another year or more out of the original bulb. The spare bulb that came with the set will probably last us well past 2010.

Serendipity · January 2008

Gaara wrote: »

First, that is awesome that you own both. Second, it should be brighter. The anti-glare in the 960 should decrease the light output, albeit not by much. This makes the 960N the brighter of the two. You would think this would make it better in bright environments but without the anti-glare it is inferior to the 960. I prefer the N but I have blackout curtains so light isn't a issue.

I guess you're right. The only thing is that the 960 seems more natural looking in a darkened room with low contrast settings. The 960N seems brighter and more like a digital display with its bright colors.

They are both good sets though.

Gaara · January 2008

Yeah, I got mine ISF calibrated a while back and the tech said that the N has more light output then the 960 due to the lack of anti-glare. I had him cut down the overall light output and now blacks look stellar and shadow details is phenomenal.

venomclan · January 2008

billbillw wrote: »

Too bad Sony is dropping them completely. The A3000 series is one of the best HDTVs you can buy right now (next to the Kuros) and Sony is canceling them and all of their RPTVs to focus on LCD. Really sucks if you ask me.

I had my eye on the SXRD 60" KDSA3000, The Perfect Vision just named it RPtv of the year, itsonly drawback is a viewing angle of 45 degrees. Now that they are discontinued, I do not know wether I should order one quick od just wait. It sucks Sony is going only LCD, as I think they are the weakest overall for a video enthusiest.
Venom

billbillw · January 2008

venomclan wrote: »

I had my eye on the SXRD 60" KDSA3000, The Perfect Vision just named it RPtv of the year, its only drawback is a viewing angle of 45 degrees. Now that they are discontinued, I do not know wether I should order one quick od just wait. It sucks Sony is going only LCD, as I think they are the weakest overall for a video enthusiest.
Venom

That's 45 degrees off center. You won't really find any LCDs flat panels or RPTVs that are much better. LCDs really look washed out when you get more than 30-40 degrees off center. The RPTVs just loose brightness, but don't really look washed out. I'd rather have that. Plasmas are really the only technology (today) that looks good off center.

venomclan · January 2008

billbillw wrote: »

That's 45 degrees off center. You won't really find any LCDs flat panels or RPTVs that are much better. LCDs really look washed out when you get more than 30-40 degrees off center. The RPTVs just loose brightness, but don't really look washed out. I'd rather have that. Plasmas are really the only technology (today) that looks good off center.

That is why I am leaning towards plasma over rptv, that and space. So far there is no 1 clear winner. LCD and plasma are getting better, but not there yet to replace my crt. I may get the SXRD as I like the size and 1080p, along with the reliability of the new Sony sets.
Venom

polkatese · January 2008

Bill, did you get your SXRD? I had mine so far for a month, can't say I regret my decision at all, even be able to say, I have no doubt that it is twice better than my old PRO520HD, when it was new. Color is just way better, rich, and natural.

Venom, I think the reviews speak for itself, and that decision of Sony to discon, I am not concern at all. As long as they will continue the warranty support, and the bulb is available in the future, I am set. Hell, I have several discon gears such as the Philip SACD1000 that Philip dismantled their whole support operation on this unit several years ago, but mine still going strong (knock on wood, though).

fyi, my room is rectangular 15x38 and the unit sitting on the long end, so angle viewing is not a concern. It looks great from any position along the long end all the way to the kitchen/breakfast nook side, which is on the other side of the room.

billbillw · January 2008

polkatese wrote: »

Bill, did you get your SXRD? I had mine so far for a month, can't say I regret my decision at all, even be able to say, I have no doubt that it is twice better than my old PRO520HD, when it was new. Color is just way better, rich, and natural.

No, not yet. I was going to jump when C.C. had the 55" for $1499, but I was stalling to wait for a 10% coupon from AAA. By the time I was able to get the coupon, the price jumped back to $1999. It has since gone down to $1699, but I really want that $1499-10%. Not sure if I'm going to get it or not. Just being paitient. I'm kinda worried though because it keeps coming in and out of stock.

polkatese · January 2008

stock is definitely dwindling fast. vanns is out of 60", Crutchfield out of 55" but has some 60". BB might have some. Although I noticed that store availability has become an issue. Good luck in getting yours.

billbillw · January 2008

polkatese wrote: »

stock is definitely dwindling fast. vanns is out of 60", Crutchfield out of 55" but has some 60". BB might have some. Although I noticed that store availability has become an issue. Good luck in getting yours.

Yeah, they are drying up at some places, but others have plenty. I'm watching very carefully.

PhantomOG · January 2008

I bought a 52" Sony LCD on Black Friday. Yes, my 32" Sony HD CRT tv had a great picture, but it was 2x the weight and less than half the size when viewing HD material (it was a 4:3 screen).

As long as the source is very high quality HD material, I'd say the LCD even looks better. However, a low quality signal from my Dish receiver (SD or HD) does look bad. The CRT just handles low quality signals better.

I don't regret the decision at all though. Off axis viewing on LCD's has come really far since a year or two ago. Almost as good as plasma. I have to get so far at an angle to notice any washing out that it doesn't matter since I would never watch from such an extreme angle. I couldn't do any type of rear projection since the off axis viewing on that is so bad. I might be imagining it, but even in the "sweet" spot, the corners of RP tv's always looked darker to me.

Plasma? No thanks, I do not want to stretch my material to prevent burn-in. I can't stand to watch anything strecthed or zoomed and unfortunately, tons of material is still 4:3 and there are many movies that are not shot at exactly 16:9. Plus, there are static station logos, news tickers etc. I don't want to worry about what I'm watching damaging my tv. Plus I've heard the larger plasmas can literally heat up a room.

Now if only I can find a reasonably priced stand to hold my CSi40 and components I'd be happy.

I-SIG · January 2008

PhantomOG wrote: »

Plasma? No thanks, I do not want to stretch my material to prevent burn-in. I can't stand to watch anything strecthed or zoomed and unfortunately, tons of material is still 4:3 and there are many movies that are not shot at exactly 16:9. Plus, there are static station logos, news tickers etc. I don't want to worry about what I'm watching damaging my tv. Plus I've heard the larger plasmas can literally heat up a room.

Now if only I can find a reasonably priced stand to hold my CSi40 and components I'd be happy.

I still have yet to figure out all these fears about burn-in and plasma. I watch 4:3, letter box in a 4:3 frame, and extreme wide screen material with nary a problem.

If you believe that burn-in is a problem, I assume you still believe that pop rocks and a can of coke will kill you.

:rolleyes:

Wes

PhantomOG · January 2008

I-SIG wrote: »

I still have yet to figure out all these fears about burn-in and plasma. I watch 4:3, letter box in a 4:3 frame, and extreme wide screen material with nary a problem.

If you believe that burn-in is a problem, I assume you still believe that pop rocks and a can of coke will kill you. :rolleyes:

Wes

There have been plenty of well documented cases of burn-in on plasmas sold in the past.

Read the instructions manual of any top tier plamsa display currently on sale. I guarantee you there is a warning in the manual about the potential for burn-in/image retention and to watch the TV full screen as much as possible.

If it's a myth as you say, why do the plasma manufacturers themselves propagate such a myth?

Pioneer (brand I would buy if I bought plasma):
Kuro 60" 1080p manual link

Read page 9

2 After-image (lag image) due to burning
Avoid displaying the same image on the plasma display
continuously over a long period of time. If the same image is
displayed continuously for several hours, or for shorter periods of
time over several days, a permanent after-image may remain on
the screen due to burning of the fluorescent materials. Such
images may become less noticeable if moving images are later
displayed, but they will not disappear completely.

Do not display content in the 4:3 aspect ratio (black or gray bars
on left and right side of content) or letter-box content (black bars
above and below content) for extended periods of time, or use
either of these viewing modes repeatedly within a short period of
time. This plasma display is equipped with multiple wide-screen
viewing modes; use one of these screen modes to fill the entire
screen with content.

Our tv is on for several hours a day, alot of it 4:3 material... doesn't sound so great for a Pioneer.

Panasonic:
58" 1080p plasma maual link

Page 5

Do not display a still picture for a long time
This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen
(“Image retention”). This is not considered a malfunction and is
not covered by the warranty.

PolkThug · January 2008

We burned a couple plasmas when I worked at CC, the problem is very real. The key to avoid this is to vary what you watch. The plasma at my bank is burned from always being on the same channel with the market info scrolling across the bottom.

PhantomOG · January 2008

Exactly. Is it easily avoidable? Maybe.

Do I want to stress about it and worry that my wife isn't watching it properly when I'm not home? Definitely NOT.

tcrossma · January 2008

I have a Panasonic 42" Plasma that i've had for a little over 2 years. I play XBox on it a lot, and watch plenty of movies, almost all of which are wide-screen and have some black bars on the top/bottom.

I have never had a problem with burn-in, nor do I do anything at all to try and prevent it.

I have even left my XBox 360 on overnight on the same screen (accidentally of course). When I found it the next morning I switched to TV and noticed that there was a slight after-image of the screen that stayed there for about 10-20 seconds and then faded from sight to never be seen again.

I currently have a 34" Sony HD CRT TV, a 32" Sony HD LCD, and a 42" Panasonic HD Plasma all in the house. For what it's worth I like the Plasma the most out of the bunch, followed by the CRT, then the LCD.

I-SIG · January 2008

PhantomOG wrote: »

If it's a myth as you say, why do the plasma manufacturers themselves propagate such a myth?

One word: Litigation. Now see below:

PolkThug wrote: »

We burned a couple plasmas when I worked at CC, the problem is very real. The key to avoid this is to vary what you watch. The plasma at my bank is burned from always being on the same channel with the market info scrolling across the bottom.

Extreme circumstances. See below as you answered your own question:

PhantomOG wrote: »

Exactly. Is it easily avoidable? Maybe.

Do I want to stress about it and worry that my wife isn't watching it properly when I'm not home? Definitely NOT.

Use the right tool for the job. Do you use a weedeater when doing plumbing? Of course not. If you watch lots of 4:3 material, buy a 4:3 TV. Duh.

Wes

mark090852 · January 2008

"Use the right tool for the job. Do you use a weedeater when doing plumbing?"

You can do plumbing with a weedeater??? Whoda thunk it???

PhantomOG · January 2008

I-SIG wrote: »

One word: Litigation. Now see below:

Litagation from cases of ... say it ... BURN IN!! :rolleyes:

I-SIG wrote: »

Use the right tool for the job. Do you use a weedeater when doing plumbing? Of course not. If you watch lots of 4:3 material, buy a 4:3 TV. Duh.

Wes

Ah... thanks. I didn't know that since other people in my household watch alot of 4:3 material that I should be forced to watch a tiny <36" 4:3 screen from 15 feet away. Seriously, that's your response? :rolleyes: Quite a pathetic analogy if you ask me. I watch TV on a TV. Because my LCD has no chance of burn-in and your plasma does, I'm suddenly using the wrong tool?

No thanks, I'l watch what I want to watch, when I want to watch it, how I want to watch without worrying about burn-in on my lovely 52" LCD.

Did I tell you that plasmas suck? No I didn't. I merely stated my preference against them because of the real threat of burn-in. Go enjoy your plasma, but do us all a favor and remove that stick from your you-know-where before you do.

Wow! All tv's suck!

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