Recommend and SACD Player..?

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,956
    edited October 2007
    Huh?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited October 2007
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Huh?

    You got me!!! I typed a bunch of stuff, hit <Submit Reply> and that is what came up. I thought I was having a flash back!:D
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,419
    edited October 2007
    Silverti wrote: »
    So pure 7.1 channel non-compressed trueHD audio over HDMI with a 1080P signal at a good 50 mb/sec backed by the most powerful proc out there (Cell) is considered in the same boat as an IPOD for audio?


    I don’t consider HI-FI's requirement of a price tag to be valid, any "hi-fi" system that includes this format would work quite well with a ps3 at its head right now (BR). In 6 months, probably not... but right now?

    Enjoy your PS3 someday you'll get it. All that matters is it makes YOU happy.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited October 2007
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Enjoy your PS3 someday you'll get it. All that matters is it makes YOU happy.

    H9

    I remember reading where a guy found that the transports on PS2s & 3s were outperforming Levinson and others. There was a big surge on to get PS2s at garage sales and flea markets to use as transport and when they would go south just use another.

    It is similar to the fellow from the UK that wrote a letter to Stereophile touting the merits of a no-name DVD player his wifer purchased for like $40 new, the transport beat all his high end transport including Krell, Levinson, and a few other I can't remember offf the top of my head. I wrote an email to that fellow and he didn't even know Stereophile put in the magazine. I believe I started a thread on this last year some time. Don't get me wrong I am not saying the PS3 circuitry for the SACD is any good, I don't know if it is or not but there may be something to the transport.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited October 2007
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Enjoy your PS3 someday you'll get it. All that matters is it makes YOU happy.

    H9

    hahaha, Im proud that I can say... Right back at you on this topic, some day...
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,700
    edited October 2007
    It bears repeating, it's a video/game machine. SACD audio is an afterthought.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited October 2007
    As I recall, Sony built it and created it to be the center of the home entertainment system which includes, gamming, media, music, movies and other entertainment. Hell, they will release a cable card DVR for it next year...

    The $250 Nintendo Wii is a system meant for games only.

    I guess you have to actually plug it up in its proper configuration to really see what it can do.

    Have any of you even auditioned on in a proper config? That the key point, people can make all kinds of quality claims but if they haven’t auditioned one, it’s all hearsay right.

    Find a PS3 connected to a unit like an Onkyo 805 or Integra 9.8 hooked up to a mid-fi setup with preamps to 7.1 speakers and listen for yourself. That’s the challenge I issue.

    You can even do as I do, I rip my music in WAV format now and listen to it stereo mode on your pre-pro over hdmi.


    Then throw in a Nin SACD and turn it up. If you can tell a difference between it and your $1000+ HI-FI SACD player, I’ll eat my hat.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    On the other hand...how many hi quality (SACD or otherwise) CDPs have you actually compared to your setup. And yes I have compared entry level vs high end vs modded CDPs and can easily tell a difference.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 7,481
    edited October 2007
    Well, if the PS3's DVD performance is any indication of how well the rest of it is built, I wouldn't be bragging about it.
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133

    Dead last in comparison to other mainstream players.

    In general, any piece of electronics that is built to do everything, rarely does very well at anything.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited October 2007
    Silverti wrote: »
    Then throw in a Nin SACD and turn it up. If you can tell a difference between it and your $1000+ HI-FI SACD player, I’ll eat my hat.

    Don't make that bet with F1nut cause you'll be asking to pass the salt!:p
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited October 2007
    F1nut wrote: »
    It bears repeating, it's a video/game machine. SACD audio is an afterthought.

    Right. Multi-channel playback is already questionableon those things, but from what I've read the player converts DSD into PCM. (?)

    That said, I've been quite pleased with my dv-46 in terms of sacd ability via the 5.1 analogs.
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
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  • brijenjas
    brijenjas Posts: 311
    edited October 2007
    aaharvel wrote: »
    Right. Multi-channel playback is already questionableon those things, but from what I've read the player converts DSD into PCM. (?)

    This is correct, as of now, PS3 owners are hoping for a firmware update that will allow DSD over HDMI.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,700
    edited October 2007
    Well, if the PS3's DVD performance is any indication of how well the rest of it is built, I wouldn't be bragging about it.

    That's going to leave a mark!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,419
    edited October 2007
    Silverti wrote: »

    Have any of you even auditioned on in a proper config? That the key point, people can make all kinds of quality claims but if they haven’t auditioned one, it’s all hearsay right.

    Well it would be true if you are comparing apples to apples and a PS3 is NOT a $1000 SACD player.

    I've never driven a Yugo, but I think thru deductive reasoning and knowing how automobiles are designed can pretty much say it's a piece of crap as far a automobiles go. Will it get you from place to place, yes it is (was) functional, but beyond that.........

    Believe or not there are people on this forum like myself who understand more than just basic audio concepts. A PS3 while it will play SACD and has a host of other features is not a true audiophile piece.

    Again, whatever floats your boat. But you won't ever convince me so stop trying. ;)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited October 2007
    How does one providing data rational of SACD or even BR performance using a review on the DVD player done early on before some major bios improvements were made directly related to DVD performance?

    Heiney here calls it a "yugo" of SACD player while there are many opinions on the AVS forums completely contrary (oh no, who to believe???). Hell, most people still call it by far the best BR player, better than $1000 stand alone "hi-Fi" units. So if we are to judge the PS3 by that standard then it sure gives a different opinion on the matter which really matters since I would venture out and say the BR player is more demanding then the DVD player.... But go figure.

    Therefore by logic here:
    The PS3 is a horrible player because it scored low on a really old DVD test
    Or
    The Ps3 is a top of the line player because it is still considered the best Blue Ray drive on the market

    Your pick

    Buh bye.. I’m out of this thread until someone produces real good info.

    So let’s do some more rationalization without some good proof shall we.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,419
    edited October 2007
    Silverti wrote: »
    How does one providing data rational of SACD or even BR performance using a review on the DVD player done early on before some major bios improvements were made directly related to DVD performance?

    Heiney here calls it a "yugo" of SACD player while there are many opinions on the AVS forums completely contrary (oh no, who to believe???). Hell, most people still call it by far the best BR player, better than $1000 stand alone "hi-Fi" units. So if we are to judge the PS3 by that standard then it sure gives a different opinion on the matter which really matters since I would venture out and say the BR player is more demanding then the DVD player.... But go figure.

    Therefore by logic here:
    The PS3 is a horrible player because it scored low on a really old DVD test
    Or
    The Ps3 is a top of the line player because it is still considered the best Blue Ray drive on the market

    Your pick

    Buh bye.. I’m out of this thread until someone produces real good info.

    So let’s do some more rationalization without some good proof shall we.

    The Yugo was an analogy not connected with the PS3. I'm talking strictly as an audiophile SACD player in 2 channel mode not 5 ch. I could give a crap about DVD playback or Blu-Ray. This thread is about the best SACD playback that would rival the Benchmark Redbook converter. PS3 will never achieve that type of playback in a true audiophile system. End of story!!

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited October 2007
    Good God you respond fast, didn’t even have time to unsubscribe from the thread.

    What I am basically saying is that I don’t believe you. You can post a contrary opion all over the place but you have not established any real information other then "No its not".

    Post up some SACD comparisons that shows how much better a $2000 SACD player is over the PS3 and I will shut up, swear to it.. I am easily swayed by legitimate comparisons. If there is a 5% of greater improvement in sounds, I will eat my hat. I am not easily swayed by the “snake oil” talk that’s in the AV industry… such as they typical add a 0 to the price and its has magic sound qualities.

    Until then, I don’t consider you an authority on it.


    BTW: I do have 4 SACD players in my house.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,419
    edited October 2007
    Silverti wrote: »
    Good God you respond fast, didn’t even have time to unsubscribe from the thread.

    Just sitting in front of the 'puter waiting for dinner to be ready :D:p .

    Good lively discussion going on here ;)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,419
    edited October 2007
    Silverti wrote: »

    BTW: I do have 4 SACD players in my house.

    Which of them cost $1000-2000?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    Anyone have a PS3 they want to bring to PF? We can do a heads-up against my Matt Anker modded Sony SCD CE775. A moddest SACD/CD (only) player with a few basic upgrades. NO DVD, No MP3...just redbook and SACD. We could let the group compare and see which is better. I would be willing to bet it will outperform the PS3 in both formats.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    Then again we could demo the PS3 against Ted's MF kW. I know it replaced a Tri-Vista which was a $5,000 piece...Don't know how much the kW set him back...but it's safe to say it probably exceeds the $1,000-$2,000 range.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,358
    edited October 2007
    Silverti wrote: »
    Post up some SACD comparisons that shows how much better a $2000 SACD player is over the PS3 and I will shut up, swear to it.. I am easily swayed by legitimate comparisons. If there is a 5% of greater improvement in sounds, I will eat my hat. I am not easily swayed by the “snake oil” talk that’s in the AV industry… such as they typical add a 0 to the price and its has magic sound qualities.

    Silverti, let me extend a friendly offer. I have never hear the PS3, however bring it over to my house and we'll power them up and do some comparison listening to my Modwright Sony NA999ES. You can bring the music. I won't waste yours and my time with the facts and specs about the differences in build quality and sound processing. You don't have to eat your hat, just buy me a burger.

    IMHO there is no comparison.
    Carl

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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited October 2007
    Silverti,

    I'm really interested how you come to these conclusions? I have a PS3, and while it's an awesome BR player, I can honestly say it's SACD capabilities are mediocre at best.

    Are there reviews that you are going by somewhere, or is this going by what you've heard?(Please don't use BR.com);) What other players have you compared it to?

    I had one at the PF this year, I wasn't even going to consider comparing it to anything the guys brought over. (I'd get laughed out the house)
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