Onkyo TX-NR905 will this push my 7.1 LSi

Snagglepuss1318
Snagglepuss1318 Posts: 61
edited October 2007 in Speakers
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-HGNc2KZMA4V/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=580TXN905S&search=nr905

Being one of the first HDMI 1.3 Receivers ALMOST on the market, will this push a 7.1 system? Or will I still need an amp?

Currently Have:
LSi15 - Fronts
LSiC
LSiFX - Surrounds
LSi9 - Rear Surrounds
Post edited by Snagglepuss1318 on
«1

Comments

  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,669
    edited August 2007
    not if you want to get the best out of your LSi's. Why not get a AVR with all the bells and whistles your want and pre out of the AVR with external amps @ 200watts a channel. You can get a better price on AVR that does what you want with less watts.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited August 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    not if you want to get the best out of your LSi's. Why not get a AVR with all the bells and whistles your want and pre out of the AVR with external amps @ 200watts a channel. You can get a better price on AVR that does what you want with less watts.
    I would definitely not run a full LSI HT on an AVR alone...at
    least for the front 3 speakers.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited August 2007
    That's a negative ghostrider.

    Get an amp, and pre/pro if you can.
  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited August 2007
    I'm running a full LSi HT on a B&K AVR 507 receiver and it does just fine. I haven't really found much of a down-side, and I've swapped in some pretty good power amps. If I was really pushing the sound levels, then I might have a reason to add separate amplification. I think it depends on your AVR. The normal Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, etc, I would vote no on.
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
  • Shizelbs
    Shizelbs Posts: 7,433
    edited August 2007
    You're going to want more amp for those speakers.
  • Snagglepuss1318
    Snagglepuss1318 Posts: 61
    edited August 2007
    phuz wrote: »
    That's a negative ghostrider.

    Get an amp, and pre/pro if you can.

    I figured, but thought I would check. My original plan was to wait till the HDMI 1.3 Receivers come out and get an Outlaw 7700. Would I be able to run the speakers for a couple months till I can get an amp, or is it worth the risk? BTW, what the heck is the difference between a pre/pro and a receiver? Is it just that a reciever has built in amps?
  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited August 2007
    I'm running a full LSi HT on a B&K AVR 507 receiver

    The AVR 507 is more or less high-end separates in one casing. Wouldn't compare that to anything Onkyo puts out. . . as nice as the 905 might be.

    B&K is stout gear in my opinion.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,321
    edited August 2007
    AndyGwis wrote: »
    The AVR 507 is more or less high-end separates in one casing. Wouldn't compare that to anything Onkyo puts out. . . as nice as the 905 might be.

    B&K is stout gear in my opinion.
    You are correct. The B&K has more current then any Japanese receiver out there Under 4 grand. The amp section is awesome on it. I had a full Lsi system with a B&k AVR 307 and I didn't have any need for a external amp. I was able to drive the LSI's past reference levels with no problems. Killer receiver, if B&K would release a up to date model with 1.3 HDMI switching, I would get one and get rid of my Rotel seperates for it.

    Seperates are cool and all but I wouldn't mind owning a B&K receiver again.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,626
    edited August 2007
    I wouldn't hesitate to use it with a full set of LSi's, but I would set all the crossover settings for the speakers to small. The 905 isn't a lightweight receiver in terms of its power supply, meets UL requirements to be certified as 4 ohm compatible, and outweighs the B&K 507 receiver by a pound. Nothing else on the market has its features (4 HDMI inputs, 1080p upcoversion, etc). Adding an external amp at a later date if an owner wanted to would just make it that much better than it already is.
  • read-alot
    read-alot Posts: 812
    edited August 2007
    That Oink has some impressive current amp numbers, you should be fine.

    Unless Onkyo have changed recently they were conservative with their output figures, I ran one of the earlier models with the SDAs back in the 80s and was more pleased with it than the Yamaha I tried after it.
    polkaudio SRS (rdo194 x 8)
    Dodd ELP (separate power supply)
    JC 1 blocks ( strapped )
    Rega Apollo
    MIT (speaker cables) Outlaw (ICs)

    polkaudio SDA2(rdo194x4) (front) polkaudio CRS (rdo194x4)(rear) polkaudio 400i (center)
    B&K 505
    Samsung LCD
    VIP 622
    HSU STF-2
  • Snagglepuss1318
    Snagglepuss1318 Posts: 61
    edited August 2007
    Just found a processor that compares to the receiver mentioned above made by onkyo. http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=PR-SC885P&class=Preamplifier&p=i

    also: http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTC-9.8&class=Separates&p=f

    They are all in the same price range, same features, so why not get the receiver w/radio (which ill probably never use (will use sirius)) and use the built in amplifiers for a second zone? Use an Outlaw 7700 for 7.1
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,669
    edited August 2007
    Have you also looked at Denon,HK,Rotel,Marantz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
  • Snagglepuss1318
    Snagglepuss1318 Posts: 61
    edited August 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    Have you also looked at Denon,HK,Rotel,Marantz

    I looked at the Denon 3808CI, but for the same features I can get the Onkyo for $400 less (tx-nr905)
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,626
    edited August 2007
    With Denon, one would have to go all the way up to the $4K 4806 model to get equivalent power output levels as with the Onkyo 905 model. The 3808 and 4308 models are missing about 10-15 lbs of power supply and heat sinks compared to the 905. I was a big fan of Denon's receivers, but their amp sections are weak. Denon puts their money into the processing side and doesn't put expensive amplification into their mid-range receivers. Harman Kardon and Rotel were much better with their amp sections, but their feature sets usually lag behind Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, by about a year or two. Looks like Onkyo should sell a bunch of their receivers this year, as long as they're reliable.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,067
    edited August 2007
    dkg999 wrote: »
    I'm running a full LSi HT on a B&K AVR 507 receiver and it does just fine. I haven't really found much of a down-side, and I've swapped in some pretty good power amps. If I was really pushing the sound levels, then I might have a reason to add separate amplification. I think it depends on your AVR. The normal Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, etc, I would vote no on.

    How you diggin' that 507 ?
    B&K avrs are more like seperates.Perfect for a combined HT - 2-channel rig.
    Have the 307 and it's staying for along time.Unless the 507 falls in my lap that is.Heard the 507 kicks it up a couple notches over the 307.True??


    Sorry,don't mean to jack your thread.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • read-alot
    read-alot Posts: 812
    edited August 2007
    I'm running a B&K and I'll bet that Onkyo will give it a run for it's money.

    I've read it a thousand times on this forum " It's all about the current when driving 4 ohm loads"
    polkaudio SRS (rdo194 x 8)
    Dodd ELP (separate power supply)
    JC 1 blocks ( strapped )
    Rega Apollo
    MIT (speaker cables) Outlaw (ICs)

    polkaudio SDA2(rdo194x4) (front) polkaudio CRS (rdo194x4)(rear) polkaudio 400i (center)
    B&K 505
    Samsung LCD
    VIP 622
    HSU STF-2
  • Snagglepuss1318
    Snagglepuss1318 Posts: 61
    edited August 2007
    Alright, I pulled the trigger on the Onkyo 905 Receiver. Should be here at the end of August... I purchased my LSi's last December and they have been boxed up since. Just recently did I get to mount them and get the wiring hooked up. I also have a BEAUTIFUL piano gloss black SVS PB12-Plus/2 that I got around April or so still sittin in the box. Im not going to be able to get an amp for a few months. Soooo I have a month to decide whether or not hook it up now or wait for a separate amp. I don't know how much more patience I have left, but im sure the sound coming out of those polks will have been worth the wait.
  • jon s
    jon s Posts: 905
    edited August 2007
    The Denon's definitely run out of gas... my 3806 easily clips on my Polk LSi15 at moderate volumes. I have been using an Onkyo TX-NR905 since the beginning of August and cannot be more happy. The Onkyo weighs 15 lbs more than the Denon. The toroidal transformer is HUGE!!! taking up the front thrid of the case. The only issue is that the Onkyo runs HOT and needs a LOT of ventilation, don't know if it's because it is driving a 4 ohm speaker but other Onkyo users have reported similar heat issues.

    Overall, the Onkyo is hard to beat with the Reon VX-50 video processor, four HDMI inputs. It sure beats the crappy Sony STR-DA5200ES with its wimpy amps. They were easily overdriven into clipping like the Denon.
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,626
    edited August 2007
    Jon, great the 905's working well for you. There's a post over on AVS forum that shows the inside of the unit. The most noticeable thing is the toroidal transformer for the amp section and separate power supplies for audio and video processing. The heat sink inside the middle of the unit does look fairly small, which is probably the main reason for the heat output and need to keep it well ventilated.
  • Snagglepuss1318
    Snagglepuss1318 Posts: 61
    edited August 2007
    jon s wrote: »
    The Denon's definitely run out of gas... my 3806 easily clips on my Polk LSi15 at moderate volumes. I have been using an Onkyo TX-NR905 since the beginning of August and cannot be more happy. The Onkyo weighs 15 lbs more than the Denon. The toroidal transformer is HUGE!!! taking up the front thrid of the case. The only issue is that the Onkyo runs HOT and needs a LOT of ventilation, don't know if it's because it is driving a 4 ohm speaker but other Onkyo users have reported similar heat issues.

    Overall, the Onkyo is hard to beat with the Reon VX-50 video processor, four HDMI inputs. It sure beats the crappy Sony STR-DA5200ES with its wimpy amps. They were easily overdriven into clipping like the Denon.

    Hey Jon, how many channels are you running on your 905? Im just curious because I have a feeling I will be pushing mine pretty hard w/no separate amp and 7 - 4ohm Lsi's... I have heard some people are having some HDMI issues as well, have you had any other issues w/yours?
  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited August 2007
    Show me a 7.1 Lsi system on an AVR and I'll show you how to blow-up an amp.
  • G-2
    G-2 Posts: 533
    edited August 2007
    Additional power significantly improved the performance and OUR enjoyment of our LSi's, your experience may vary.
    Home Theater
    Chane
    A3rx-c's, A2rc-c, A1rx-c's|Miller & Kreisel V-125's|Sony XBR65X810C 65" 4K LED TV|
    Earthquake Cinenova Grande-5|Pioneer Elite - VSX-84TXSi-AVR|TRIPPLITE LCR2400|
    Ultrasonic Amp Stand|Blue Jeans,Audioquest,Monster Cables|

    2 - Channel
    Polk
    RTA 12c's w/RDO194 TWEETS, clarity ESA caps mills resistors (full mod)|Turntable|
    Anthem MCA 2|Acurus Act 3 Pre Pro|Parasound P/Ph 100|Pioneer Elite N-30|Adcom GDA600|
    Premier Rack|Blue Jeans,Audioquest,Monster Cables|
  • SKsolutions
    SKsolutions Posts: 1,820
    edited August 2007
    read-alot wrote: »
    That Oink has some impressive current amp numbers, you should be fine.

    Unless Onkyo have changed recently they were conservative with their output figures, I ran one of the earlier models with the SDAs back in the 80s and was more pleased with it than the Yamaha I tried after it.

    Unfortunately, Onkyo got caught up in the War of The Watts to keep up their market share with the uninformed. You've shopped next to them. . . . they are the ones that buy those 1200W systems that have a quick-burn 3A fuse.

    Onkyo's older (1980's to 1990's) 60W/80W designs are superior to most of their later 100W rated AVR designs IMO.

    It appears that they are trying to get back to that, but I'm not convinced.
    -Ignorance is strength -
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited August 2007
    Unfortunately, Onkyo got caught up in the War of The Watts to keep up their market share with the uninformed. You've shopped next to them. . . . they are the ones that buy those 1200W systems that have a quick-burn 3A fuse.

    Onkyo's older (1980's to 1990's) 60W/80W designs are superior to their current 100W rated amp designs IMO.


    What experience is that based on exactly? Onkyo has actually been one of the better manufacturers in regards to power ratings. The current WRAT technology is much more capable than the vintage amplifier designs. The Integra line, which is a division of Onkyo, has always produced some solid gear. All the ratings from the larger manufacturers exist in reality, but you'll notice very little consistancy in how they are measured.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • walk
    walk Posts: 178
    edited August 2007
    I have the 805, it's more than enough power in bi-amp mode (5.1 setup but using all 7 amps - front L/R are bi-amped with the SB channels). The 905 has what 10 more watts? Should be plenty unless, I don't know, your room is HUGE or you're not using a subwoofer for some reason.

    Anyway highly recc. this receiver line. Using it with a PS3 and a HDMI cable box, have had zero HDMI issues.
    - Sony 50"A3000 SXRD; Onkyo TX-SR 805
    - Polk RTi150 mains; CSi30 center; FXi3 surrounds, R15 backs
    - Velodyne CHT-12 subwoofer
  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited August 2007
    walk wrote: »
    front L/R are bi-amped with the SB channels). The 905 has what 10 more watts?


    How did you do that? Bi amping with surround back channels and fron left/right. Arent they 2 different signals?

    Edit: Nevermind, you must have the sb channels as zone 2 and put them on the same input. Right?
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
  • walk
    walk Posts: 178
    edited August 2007
    No no... the 805 is designed to allow bi-amping of the fronts (others in the model line too). I have 5.1 speakers - you use the (otherwise unused) SB terminals to connect the fronts, and tell it so in the setup menu... Though I just bought a pair of FXi and going to go full 7.1 when they arrive :)
    - Sony 50"A3000 SXRD; Onkyo TX-SR 805
    - Polk RTi150 mains; CSi30 center; FXi3 surrounds, R15 backs
    - Velodyne CHT-12 subwoofer
  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited August 2007
    Cool walk
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
  • SKsolutions
    SKsolutions Posts: 1,820
    edited August 2007
    dorokusai wrote: »
    What experience is that based on exactly? Onkyo has actually been one of the better manufacturers in regards to power ratings. The current WRAT technology is much more capable than the vintage amplifier designs. The Integra line, which is a division of Onkyo, has always produced some solid gear. All the ratings from the larger manufacturers exist in reality, but you'll notice very little consistancy in how they are measured.

    I've owned four of them and loved them for their value. The late 80's to late 90's Onkyo receivers were bulletproof AND musical. Somewhere between the last one I had -circa 1999 and last years lineup (when I was AVR shopping), their amp sections went skimpy. Yet, the numbers went up, the weight went down, and the parts went cheap. . . because that is what sells. The WRAT as far as I can see is just a high-gain front end with attenuation, which will give you more initial gain but at the expense of dynamic range (compressed/limited) and linearity. Bad design for 2 channel, good for making cheap parts sound their best.

    I know you've got gear coming out of your naughties. . . so, take a 1998 AVR, and do a 2 ch A/B with a 2005. If you are driving a moderately difficult speaker at volume, the 2005 won't compare.
    I've made no reference to the Integra line. I've not owned one.

    EDIT:
    Looking at their current lineup, they are making mention to the way they measure their power ratings. Why would they even have to state it. Their old designs were conservatively rated. . Maybe they are coming back to their roots.
    -Ignorance is strength -
  • NewOrlnsDukie
    NewOrlnsDukie Posts: 24
    edited August 2007
    I love my new 875, and the 905 is ultra2-certified. So at least the 905 is less likely to blow up/ go into protection driving some LSI's at reasonable volumes, but for those LSI's, I'd echo others' sentiments and recommend that you get a good solid 2-channel 200wpc amp for your mains at the very least, if only to take some load off of your poor 905, which can get nuclear hot.

    My 875 is only amping the 2 back channels of my 7.1 setup (I'm otherwise using it as a pre-pro for a 5-channel 225wpc at 8 ohms Sunfire GC), and it gets pretty friggin' hot anyway. I can't imagine how that 905 is gonna handle a full LSI system near Dolby ref levels w/o being egg-frying hot. To do those LSI's justice, spend 400 bucks or so and get a used Adcom 555 II for your mains or maybe a 5503 for LCR, and let your 905 breathe a little.