WTB - f/x500i black

Options
2»

Comments

  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited January 2003
    Options
    Originally posted by goingganzo
    the reason i wennt from 6.1 to 7.1 is caues my room aka ht was merged with the game room behind it in the basement. so i took the pre outs of the onkyo 787 and ran them to a 2 chanel amp. actuley 6.1 and 7.1 dd are the same sigonal. the rear 2 chanels play off of a mono sigonal just like the pld prologic suround did.
    ganzo is right on the money - the 787 has pre-outs for the 6/7.1
    Not much of a difference - it really depends on the width of the room. The wider the room the more need for 7 channels to fill the rear out. It's that simple.
    · Share on Facebook
  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited January 2003
    Options
    Originally posted by scottvamp

    ganzo is right on the money - the 787 has pre-outs for the 6/7.1
    Not much of a difference - it really depends on the width of the room. The wider the room the more need for 7 channels to fill the rear out. It's that simple.

    Well maybe simple for folks that don't agonize over every component and every option.:( If you throw in SACD or DVD audio, don't you get 7 distinct channels? And how long do you think it will be before the back surround channel gets their own distinct signal instead of mono. But I hear your advice. It's kind of silly really. 6.1 speakers all driven at over 100 wpc all cranking out large volumes of sound and I'm trying to think of reason why I would need 7 speakers. Maybe because it's more fun than work!:D
    · Share on Facebook
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited January 2003
    Options
    First - I'd like to publicly thank wallstreet and Russ for helping me on purchasing a pair of f/x1000's. The check is going out today in the mail and Russ will be meeting wallstreet and checking out the speaks and giving him the check. A great transaction so far - props all around.

    Next - wallstreet, I think you're misinterpreting what they were saying about a "mono" signal. That term is not completely correct in this application and I see where you might be confused.

    DD EX 6.1 and DTS ES 6.1 both contain a discrete (i.e., separate and independent) signal channel to the rear speaker.

    Your digital decoder must be capable of decoding DD-EX or DTS-ES in order to take advantage of this 6th channel of information.

    There is usually a pre-out or an actual amp channel on 6.1 ready receivers. My receiver only has a pre-out and can only decode DD-EX, and not DTS-ES. So I will need a separate amp for the rear channel, which I have.

    There is no "7.1" encoded information on any DVD that I am aware of (correct me here guys if I am wrong). A true 7.1 would contain a discrete channel for the left rear and the right rear.

    So the next best thing is to send the discrete 6.1 rear channel signal in DD-EX or DTS-ES to TWO rear speakers. This can be accomplished by splitting the pre-out signal on a 6.1 receiver (which is what I'm doing), or by actually buying a 7.1 receiver with two pre-outs or two amps.

    What the guys are saying is that the two rear speaks will get the SAME information. This is not really a "mono" set-up per se, but now you know what they were referring to.

    Regards,

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
    · Share on Facebook
  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited January 2003
    Options
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    First - I'd like to publicly thank wallstreet and Russ for helping me on purchasing a pair of f/x1000's. The check is going out today in the mail and Russ will be meeting wallstreet and checking out the speaks and giving him the check. A great transaction so far - props all around.

    Next - wallstreet, I think you're misinterpreting what they were saying about a "mono" signal. That term is not completely correct in this application and I see where you might be confused.

    DD EX 6.1 and DTS ES 6.1 both contain a discrete (i.e., separate and independent) signal channel to the rear speaker.

    Your digital decoder must be capable of decoding DD-EX or DTS-ES in order to take advantage of this 6th channel of information.

    There is usually a pre-out or an actual amp channel on 6.1 ready receivers. My receiver only has a pre-out and can only decode DD-EX, and not DTS-ES. So I will need a separate amp for the rear channel, which I have.

    There is no "7.1" encoded information on any DVD that I am aware of (correct me here guys if I am wrong). A true 7.1 would contain a discrete channel for the left rear and the right rear.

    So the next best thing is to send the discrete 6.1 rear channel signal in DD-EX or DTS-ES to TWO rear speakers. This can be accomplished by splitting the pre-out signal on a 6.1 receiver (which is what I'm doing), or by actually buying a 7.1 receiver with two pre-outs or two amps.

    What the guys are saying is that the two rear speaks will get the SAME information. This is not really a "mono" set-up per se, but now you know what they were referring to.

    Regards,

    Doc

    No misunderstanding here. That's how I understand it too. 7.1 uses the same signal to make 7.1. No new info, just more of it. That's why setting a nice center for my back surround should work fine for me. I'm thinking about the CSi40.
    · Share on Facebook
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited January 2003
    Options
    Originally posted by wallstreet


    No misunderstanding here. That's how I understand it too. 7.1 uses the same signal to make 7.1. No new info, just more of it. That's why setting a nice center for my back surround should work fine for me. I'm thinking about the CSi40.

    Oh, OK - thought you were confused about that point - sorry.

    Anyway, the CSi40 is a perfect choice for a rear center channel. If you can centrally locate it, it will really pound out some room filling sound.

    The only reason I'm using twin CS245i's for my rear sound stage is that I have a fireplace directly behind the key listening position and I cannot hang or mount a single center channel in the center without a high potential for heat, soot, and smoke damage.

    So I have a wrap around shelf on either side of the fireplace with a CS245i on each side. I will actually be moving the 245's a bit closer together to simulate a large single rear center after I get the 1000's mounted to the sides of the HT room.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
    · Share on Facebook
  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited January 2003
    Options
    So I have a wrap around shelf on either side of the fireplace with a CS245i on each side. I will actually be moving the 245's a bit closer together to simulate a large single rear center after I get the 1000's mounted to the sides of the HT room.
    Good plan Dr. Spec - it's good to hear from people on the same wavelength.
    · Share on Facebook
  • goingganzo
    goingganzo Posts: 2,793
    edited January 2003
    Options
    con grats dr. spec i think you will realey enjoy the bi-di surounds. they realey make it sweet. hope they ship good and you get them soon. dr. do you know how to do any drywall work? i have a good idea for you. get a 2x4 and cut it to the lenth between the 2 studs between the place where you want to put your suround. cut a small hole insert the 2x4 and atach to drywall and also to the studs on each side with long screws 3 in plus. patch hole and mount speakers.
    · Share on Facebook
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited January 2003
    Options
    Originally posted by goingganzo
    con grats dr. spec i think you will realey enjoy the bi-di surounds. they realey make it sweet. hope they ship good and you get them soon. dr. do you know how to do any drywall work? i have a good idea for you. get a 2x4 and cut it to the lenth between the 2 studs between the place where you want to put your suround. cut a small hole insert the 2x4 and atach to drywall and also to the studs on each side with long screws 3 in plus. patch hole and mount speakers.

    Check went out today in the mail to Russ. It will be a while before I see those speaks. Russ has to see them and deliver the check, the check has to clear, and wallstreet has to ship UPS from Texas to NY.

    Anyway, yes - I can either mount on an existing vertical stud or place a cross brace between them. I've done drywall before - it's no fun, but I'm not bad at it. Thanks for the tips.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
    · Share on Facebook
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,985
    edited February 2003
    Options
    Doc,

    Just got back from Walt's humble abode. Great guy, and you are getting a STELLAR deal.

    They are HUGE, but VERY doable hanging on a wall, I saw it first hand.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
    · Share on Facebook
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Options
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    Doc,

    Just got back from Walt's humble abode. Great guy, and you are getting a STELLAR deal.

    They are HUGE, but VERY doable hanging on a wall, I saw it first hand.

    Cheers,
    Russ

    Great news Russ! I knew it was fate that you and he lived so close and that he intercepted my fx500i purchase.

    Walter - looking forward to receiving them after you get paid. Sorry the check didn't make it yet. Thanks for a great experience thus far - Club Polk all the way!

    I've been running wire all day. It's going really well so far.

    Regards,

    Ed
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
    · Share on Facebook
  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited February 2003
    Options
    I'm glad to be able to help finance your home theater!:) The speakers are all boxed up waiting to go. I figure the money will go for a basketball goal for the backyard. No hurry on the center channel speaker for the back. I'll just get one of the new ones when I get my 6.1 amp. Research is officially in gear. Now, should I get separates or integrated...:confused:
    · Share on Facebook
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Options
    Originally posted by wallstreet
    I'm glad to be able to help finance your home theater!:) The speakers are all boxed up waiting to go. I figure the money will go for a basketball goal for the backyard. No hurry on the center channel speaker for the back. I'll just get one of the new ones when I get my 6.1 amp. Research is officially in gear. Now, should I get separates or integrated...:confused:

    That's a nice use for the cash. I used to love hoops before my back went south.

    Separates vs. integrated? Here's my $0.02:

    If you have impedance-friendly speakers that you will be running on small using a separate sub, then the $300-$500 A/V receiver is an outstanding value. It doesn't take much power or current to cleanly drive 8 ohm speakers above 80 Hz to very loud levels.

    If you are running full-range, low/reactive impedance, large speakers, then the separate, high-current amp with mono-block discrete design with big caps and transformer makes all the sense.

    With that said, high end separates will sound better regardless, but if you are looking for sound quality improvement alone, you will quickly reach a state of diminishing returns. It always costs the most (by far) to go from very good to extremely good.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
    · Share on Facebook
  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited February 2003
    Options
    Yes! Yes and Yes Doc! Again some very good points!

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
    · Share on Facebook
  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited February 2003
    Options
    The check hit the bank this morning. Since it's from NY, they said add an extra 2 weeks.:D (Just kidding). I'll ship Saturday morning since the box is a little big for the wife.
    · Share on Facebook
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Options
    Excellent news wallstreet! Yeah, the check should clear by week's end, I would imagine.

    Shipping from Texas will probably take another week anyway. Should see them before the weekend after next, anyway.

    Except for the 1000's, my upgrade is done. The wiring is pretty discrete (I'm not running an interior decorating show after all), the interconnects between the Kenwood pre-out and the Harman Kardon 2 channel amp work perfectly with no voltage or impedance mismatch. This rig powers the rear dual CS245i's perfectly.

    I had some tiny KLH speakers lying around, so I hooked them up as my interim side surrounds.

    I played some DD-EX true 6.1 material, and also some DD and DTS 5.1 material with the Kenwood's "rear surround mix" function enabled (this steals a bit the side surrounds and sends it to the back on 5.1 material - to approximate 6.1.)

    Even with the KLH's in the mix, the results were excellent. The rear sound stage is solid and enveloping with definite discrete signals in DD-EX mode. The sound field is now much more enveloping and seamless front to back.

    I ran the KLH's out of phase for a while and the verdict is still out on that point. I'll wait for the 1000's before I decide on whether to run bi-pole or di-pole.

    Timbre matching is terrible with the KLH's - I can't wait for the power house 1000's to show so I can recalibrate and really fully enjoy the benefits of 7.1.

    Thanks again.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
    · Share on Facebook