Question: New amp or what for more volume???

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TONYGVISINET
TONYGVISINET Posts: 24
edited January 2003 in Electronics
:eek:
Hello folks, I am a veteran polk enthusiast for over14 years and now enjoy a pair of SDA 2b's with a PSB Powered Subwoofer.

My question is:

Most times I cannot achieve the clean loudness I want without my NAD 3400 100w Integrated amp clipping at volume level 5, so I am looking for the best solution!

What would be the best scenario: buy a bigger amp or buy some bigger polks?

I have inquired about a amp/pre-amp configuration and have come up with a new NAD C160 / C270 combination that would provide 120w. I don't think it will be enough. (This would be $900.)

Bi-amping seems to be the new fad now, but I am unsure of the wiring to my Subwoofer will work with that scenario. (Using a line level interconnect from the "pre-out" into the Sub, which sends back the signal to "main in" without the lower frequency.

Thanks is advance for any expert help you can
Tony G
Glloucester, Va
provide!!!:p :confused:
Tony G - Gloucester, Va

Denon 1650AR CD
Phase Technology Power 12 Sub
Polk SDA 1
NAD 3400 Int Amp (100w)
NAD 6340 Cassette
Kenwood KT-31B Tuner
Post edited by TONYGVISINET on
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited January 2003
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    More clean power. If you are clipping your amp, thats the solution, imo.

    Step up to 200-250 w/continuous. Carver, Nad, Adcom would be good places to start looking. 100 to 120, I doubt you would even notice.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited January 2003
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    To get a really noticeable difference in power, double it.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • rlw
    rlw Posts: 231
    edited January 2003
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    Consider this: let's say your Polks are 89dB efficient [1w of input power produces 89dB of sound at 1m in front of the speaker, ignoring reflections from the room].

    To get 92dB, you'll need 2 watts.

    95dB -> 4 W
    98dB -> 8 W
    101dB -> 16 W

    you get the idea: watts double for every 3dB increase in volume - doubling the volume is about 10dB.

    Remember, this doesn't take into distance further from the speaker - you might need 5 Watts to get that 89dB if you sit 4 Meters from the speakers. The power curve then looks like:

    92dB -> 10W
    95dB ->20W
    98dB -> 40W
    101dB ->80W

    Also figure that non-mass-market-pop CD's can have peaks 15-20dB above "average" levels. That means you need some pretty hefty reserves - unless, of course, you listen to commercially produced crap which has 2dB peaks.

    This is why I think 600W a channel is not excessive for 89dB efficient speakers.

    Now, interestingly, in theory, adding another pair of speakers will increase the sensitivity by about 6dB - so your 89dB efficient speakers become 95dB efficient, and that's a huge gain.

    However, the price you pay is phasing problems, hookup issues, space issues, etc. And it typically isn't a good tradeoff.

    I'm also really curious about your setup: it's the bass frequencies which gobble the power - 80Hz and lower. If you're truly filtering that out at line level, I'm pretty amazed that you are clipping a 100W amp that easily. How loud do you listen?

    Just some thoughts. Hope it helps.
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  • TONYGVISINET
    TONYGVISINET Posts: 24
    edited January 2003
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    To RLW:
    Thanks fro such a thorough answer- that really put it in perspective.
    I must say that your question is easy to answer- I must listen to the music TOO LOUD! No, really- I am a classic rock fan, and I do like it VERY LOUD (but clear).
    I think the opinion that I have had given about getting bigger speakers in not that good. Those SDA 2b's will be able to handle to loudness better of I give them what they want- more clean watts. Now I am bummed out about having to let go my Nad 3400 in lieu of a very expensive Amp/pre-amp.
    BTW- I cannot find which NAD 200 watt amp model to look at.. any suggestions?
    Also- who would recommend Rotel over NAD??? They have a nice 200 watter for about $1k.
    Thanks again very much for all the help!
    Tony G
    Tony G - Gloucester, Va

    Denon 1650AR CD
    Phase Technology Power 12 Sub
    Polk SDA 1
    NAD 3400 Int Amp (100w)
    NAD 6340 Cassette
    Kenwood KT-31B Tuner
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited January 2003
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    Heh heh heh...find an old Bedini to drive those SDAs. The best I ever heard a pair of SRSs was through a Bedini. The clincher? The store I used to listen to them at let them go for $500. If I'd only known...

    Wally
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited January 2003
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    If your NAD integrated amp has pre outs then just use that as a preamp until you can get a new one. Spend the money on a new amp. You could also look at used amps such as Bryston, they carry a 20 year transferable warranty. So you would be covered for a long time!
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • TONYGVISINET
    TONYGVISINET Posts: 24
    edited January 2003
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    To wlrandall:
    Found a bendini on ebay for $450... what are the specs on that?
    Tony G - Gloucester, Va

    Denon 1650AR CD
    Phase Technology Power 12 Sub
    Polk SDA 1
    NAD 3400 Int Amp (100w)
    NAD 6340 Cassette
    Kenwood KT-31B Tuner
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited January 2003
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    My first SDA demo, was 2b's on a 25 watt Bedini Class A.

    Music to my ears.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited January 2003
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    Tony, it depends on the model.
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  • TONYGVISINET
    TONYGVISINET Posts: 24
    edited January 2003
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    Now, how is that? I just digested all the computations from rlw's post, and you tell me it can be done for 1/4th the watts instead of double.
    Tony G - Gloucester, Va

    Denon 1650AR CD
    Phase Technology Power 12 Sub
    Polk SDA 1
    NAD 3400 Int Amp (100w)
    NAD 6340 Cassette
    Kenwood KT-31B Tuner
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  • jmasterj
    jmasterj Posts: 327
    edited January 2003
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    Hi TONYGVISINET,

    I had a pair of SDA-2's driven by a Carver M1.5t rated at 350watts a channel peaked at 600 watts a channel with dynamic headroom to 700 watts one channel for musically significant time periods. AKA short burst. I saw one on Audiogon.com not too long ago it will do the trick I guarantee.
    JmasterJ Polk to the Death
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