Jolida CDP "AA Top Fuel Dragster Mod"

24

Comments

  • reeltrouble1reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,313
    edited October 2006
    yep, I got a little sneek peak of that piece sans the caps, well it had simulated caps, made from, well nevermind about that, anyway, it is impressive to say the least. The use of space and parts was very well thought out. That's the thing with Jesse, he never says "good enough" when working a piece......Tubes Rule.......well, maybe not for amps but you get my drift.

    RT1
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
    HTS5000



    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over
  • BlueMDPickerBlueMDPicker Old Polk Posts: 6,983
    edited October 2006
    well it had simulated caps, made from, well nevermind about that....
    They're called "der ders", Ted.
    (now, let's see if there's anyone as old as me that remembers that one);)


  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited October 2006
    No one's as old as you, Mike....well except GG, he's older than old. ;)

    I'll bite, WTF are "der der's"?

    I'll say this, they were either made from TP rolls or PT rolls.....just not sure which. :D
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • BlueMDPickerBlueMDPicker Old Polk Posts: 6,983
    edited October 2006
    source: "A Child's Garden of Grass"
    by Jack S. Margolis and Richard Clorfene, illustrated by Jack S. Margolis, copyright 1969, Contact Books


  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2006
    Wow, nice job! The pro modders have nothing on you... :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited October 2006
    In case anyone is interested in upgrading the clock in your CDP, here's a link to Trichord.

    http://www.trichordresearch.com/cdupgrades.html
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited October 2006
    Whoa!!! That's what I call a mod! I don't think I've ever seen any cdp modded to that level before. Enjoy man.
    Do Dynamats really make a difference? I'm thinking about trying it on the top cover of my cdp. Where's the best place to buy them?
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited October 2006
    This place has good prices, http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=12647

    That should be enough to do a few pieces of gear. Does it make a difference, you ask? I can't say for sure, but in principle it should. My rule is if the piece makes a tinny sound when pinged with a fingernail, vibration must be getting inside. After applying Dynamat it sounds solid when pinged thereby helping to prevent any outside vibration from affecting the low level resolution.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited October 2006
    Ok, time for a little review. This CDP beats the pants off my reference player. ;)

    Seriously, after some 200+ hours of burn in I hooked the modded Jolida (24/96 upsampling) up to my big rig and I'm able to A/B it with my reference level Tri-Vista (T-V) (24/192 upsampling) in a few short steps, taking less than 15 seconds. The first thing I noticed was a more forward presentation. The vocals are projected farther into the room than the rest of the music as compared to the T-V, which still projects the vocals in front of the band as they should be, just not as far out as the Jolida. The bass, at first, seemed louder with more punch, but after awhile I realized it was because it's accenting the mid bass while not achieving the deep extension that the T-V has. Also, the bass is not as tight as the T-V. The mid range is lush (not a bad thing), more so than the T-V, which I'd say is slighty on the warm side of neutral. Treble is very smooth, but not quite as detailed as the T-V and the T-V projects a wider soundstage, but not by much.

    Overall, I'd say the Jolida is warm and lush and the T-V is more accurate with better extension at both ends. The differences are not large and it took me awhile to really nail them down. In fact, sometimes I preferred the lush sound of the Jolida on recordings that sound a bit bright on the T-V, but on a good recording the T-V always sounded better to me. For the difference in price it's scary how good the modded Jolida is and if I didn't have the T-V, I might well be happy with the Jolida as my main player.

    I plan on rolling some other tubes in the Jolida to see if that does anything to tighen up the bass and gain extension at both ends.

    Does anyone in the area have a stock Jolida they would like to compare to my modded unit? I would really like to A/B them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • BlueMDPickerBlueMDPicker Old Polk Posts: 6,983
    edited October 2006
    Nice review!

    Does the T-V have tube output, or does it use those hardwired tubes in the gain stage?

    In the Jolida circuit, I assume there are opamps between the DAC and the tube output stage. If so, what are they and did you replace/upgrade them?

    If you have time someday, I'd like you to bring it over and A/B it against the EE MiniMax. My PSA and Carver preamps have remote switchable input selection. It would be interesting to put identical source material in both (I know we have some dupes between our collections) and be able to switch instantly from one to the other.


  • reeltrouble1reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,313
    edited October 2006
    ultimate Audio Geek evening...........have fun

    Tubed output, here is a little read.

    http://www.onhifi.com/product/musicalfidelity_trivista_sacd.htm

    RT1
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
    HTS5000



    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited October 2006
    Mike, that's a plan, let's do it. No opamps to be found and both are tubed outputs as RT1 states.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Polk65Polk65 Posts: 1,412
    edited October 2006
    Awesome mod. Enjoy. It would be scary to see what you and Chuck could accomplish together on a "bored night". :D
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,556
    edited October 2006
    I could...

    RTi4 becomes a 1.2TL...
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Polk65Polk65 Posts: 1,412
    edited October 2006
    That's so wrong..

    It's like a 4th generation thrice removed clone of a clone.
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited November 2006
    Thanks for the link. I'm gonna get me some Dynamat.

    Sounds like you're getting that truth vs beauty thing between the Jolida and MF.
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited November 2006
    Absolutely.

    Latest update:

    I got tired of not having a CDP in my office/shop rig, so the Jolida has returned to duty. Mated with a Manley tube amp (preamp will remain nameless at this time) and metal dome tweets in small bookshelf speakers, the Jolida has a different sound. The top end is sharp, crisp and very detailed while the bass is virgin tight with punch. The mid range remains lush. Can you say synergy?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • amulfordamulford Posts: 5,198
    edited November 2006
    Your the only guy I know who's shop rig rivals that of many people's main rigs.:D :cool:
    I smell ****, burning ****, glowing cherry red spanked ****.

    RT1
  • MillerLiteScottMillerLiteScott Posts: 2,568
    edited November 2006
    amulford wrote:
    Your the only guy I know who's shop rig rivals that of many people's main rigs.:D :cool:

    Apparently that is the way they doit on Mars.:D
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
  • ozone_stinkozone_stink Posts: 9
    edited November 2006
    Hi, I just got a Jolida JD100a and I'm looking forward to re-clocking it.

    I've been looking at F1's pics and it appears that the original crystal is still installed... I'm just wondering where the clock output wire from the Trichord Clock is going.

    I would be really grateful if somebody could let me know which resistor or place on the board to connect the clock out wire.

    Thanks.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited November 2006
    Considering that the original crystal (clock) was mounted to the digital board under the transport and considering that the Trichord clock is now in use I don't know why you say that, "it appears that the original crystal is still installed." You can't use both.

    Anyway, the red/black wires are power (only the red is connected to a +5V tap on the power supply board, the black isn't used), the white/black run to the digital board taps of the original clock. Trichord provides instuctions for proper installation with the clock.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ozone_stinkozone_stink Posts: 9
    edited November 2006
    Well thank you for letting me know. Do you know what the original clock was running at? I'm guessing 16.9344 MHz.

    Do you know if there are +ve and -ve digital regs on the Jolida? I'm trying to determine whether I'll use a dual supply clock or a supply single one.

    I'm sorry if I sounded like a moron there, but in one of your pictures I do see a piece of metal near the Winbond chip on the tube out board (half-hidden by the flat flexible cable on the north west part of the board). -It kinda looks like a crystal to me... In the Trichord instructions I've read, they indicate to remove the crystal from the board... I did see the black/white wire leading under the transport and I certainly did not believe it was on its way back to the power supply board. I suspect that I should have guessed that the PCM1738 lives underneath the transport on a seperate board to the tube out board. Sorry about that.

    I do appreciate your help. I expect to pick mine up tomorrow and I've ordered a TSM from Jolida. I imagine it'll be clearer when I have the unit sitting in front of me.

    Thanks again for your help.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited November 2006
    I didn't think you were a moron, just curious as to why you thought the original was still in use. Now that I see what you're talking about, I agree that does look like a clock on the tube board.

    I bought the player with the Trichord clock already installed (physically on the digital board, I moved it), so I'm not able to answer your first question. To the best of my knowledge, Trichord only offers one clock for the Jolida with a single supply. Did you mean the Never Connected Power Supply option? I had considered that option, but had no where to mount it

    I paid $10.00 for piss poor quality and incomplete schematics from Jolida. How much is the TSM costing you?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ozone_stinkozone_stink Posts: 9
    edited November 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    I didn't think you were a moron, just curious as to why you thought the original was still in use. Now that I see what you're talking about, I agree that does look like a clock on the tube board.

    I bought the player with the Trichord clock already installed (physically on the digital board, I moved it), so I'm not able to answer your first question. To the best of my knowledge, Trichord only offers one clock for the Jolida with a single supply. Did you mean the Never Connected Power Supply option? I had considered that option, but had no where to mount it

    I paid $10.00 for piss poor quality and incomplete schematics from Jolida. How much is the TSM costing you?

    Now that you say it, I think I`m getting the same piss poor quality schematics that you are. When I spoke to the Jolida contact, he warned me that it was `just a wiring diagram`and it also is costing me $10.00. I fear that calling that a TSM was indeed misleading.

    I think your mods are really great and that you did a really clean job. I look forward to modding mine too.

    I`ll post the details as they become apparent.

    Cheers. :)
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited November 2006
    Excellent, I look forward to seeing what you do with yours.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • jtgranbyjtgranby Posts: 888
    edited November 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    Ok, time for a little review. This CDP beats the pants off my reference player. ;)

    .

    Does anyone in the area have a stock Jolida they would like to compare to my modded unit? I would really like to A/B them.[/QUOTE

    Jesse

    sorry I missed this,little busy at work and home. Give me a call or email and we can hook up.

    Jim
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited November 2006
    Will do.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ozone_stinkozone_stink Posts: 9
    edited November 2006
    OK. Couple of things about the Jolida that I discovered:

    <1> DAC is not BB. It's a Philips SAA7327H.
    <2> Crystal (XTI) on DAC board is 8.4672 MHz (which is upsampled to 16.9344 MHz).
    <3> That other crystal I was talking about a couple of posts back is a 12.0 MHz and I'm not entirely sure what it does (yet).

    Finally, replacing the clock in this player is NOT a trivial operation. It becomes necessary to remove the transport and you have to be really really careful about the flat flexible ribbon cable (those orange ultra-thin & ultra-fragile ones) that leads from CDM12 to DAC board.

    I installed a Kwak Clock 6 (single supply +9V - +16V) and used the crystal that was on the DAC board with said clock (i.e. you need to order a clock with 8.4672 MHz or build your own clock and use the crystal from the board).

    Was it worth it?

    YES and YES: BASS is MUCH less sloppy now. Way more detail. Everything is better. -It never ceases to amaze me how much difference a GOOD clock will make!! :)

    I'm hearing new (good) things on my cds with this player!! :D
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,098
    edited November 2006
    I've never heard of that clock, do you have a link? Why doesn't it come with a crystal?

    BTW, you can pull one end of that ribbon cable out and just slip it back in when you're done working, no biggie.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ozone_stinkozone_stink Posts: 9
    edited November 2006
    Hi. Kwak-Clock is DIY design. You can order kits from Elso Kwak (elsokwak(at)yahoo(d0t)com) and build it yourself (about 75 Euro). Or you can simply download the schematics, make your own board and get the parts from Mouser or Digikey. The genious of his design is fairly renowned on DIYAudio and DIYHIFI.ORG. Essentially, what helps make a great clock (i.e. low jitter) is clean powersupply. In other words, you can have the best spec. VCXO but a poor execution of PS will have you left in the dust by a simple crystal and a well-designed PS clock. If you like I can email you the schematics and you'll see what I mean.

    Guido Tent also makes an awesome clock (based on VCXO and not std. crystal), but it requires his power supply to truly shine (external to the clock and more $$). The thing I liked about Elso's design is that he's put all the PS filtering into the clock and you simply take the un-regulated digital supply from your CDP (i.e. one of the pads for the filter cap feeding your digital reg., (before the reg.))

    If you take a good look at the Trichord 4 vs. Trichord 2, for example, you'll notice that the big difference is that they've added LC filters and likely some ferrites to clean up the PS. It's probably running the exact same oscillator, though. -It's all about low noise.
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